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On February 14 2016 08:59 Seeker wrote:
Starting from this page on, I will be moderating more harshly toward any mention of MarineKing's name. This thread has NOTHING to do with MarineKing. Do not talk about MarineKing even if you are defending him. Just don't do it. Please no match-fixing accusations on MarineKing or any other player if it has not officially been confirmed. This goes for other players too. -The_Templar |
On February 01 2016 16:20 Rekrul wrote:
why scapegoat the famous one and let all the other ones slide
probably not enough evidence yet to press charges vs the rest? took them a few months to charge Life
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On February 01 2016 16:20 Rekrul wrote:
why scapegoat the famous one and let all the other ones slide
Presumably the whole "evidence" thing.
Is this to be taken as confirmation that as far as you know, no other huge names have been involved in match fixing? Talk about your silver linings if that's true.
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On February 01 2016 16:12 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 16:10 eScaper-tsunami wrote:On February 01 2016 14:54 TaKeTV wrote:On February 01 2016 14:43 Shortizz wrote:
Should ban all the proven match fixers from all related activities. Tournament, streaming etc etc, they should be banned for life. Because of people's statement like ''give them a chance'', supporting cheater's afreeca streams, this problem will never go away. Ban them for ''life'' Death sentence doesn't stop people from killing. Same applies here. I hate it as well but it won't make it go away. Death sentence doesn't stop (all) people from killing. Anyway it's sad that great players such as Life has participated in match fixing but if anything at least we know the prosecutors are taking the matter very seriously. IMO it's better to know the system is doing their best and arresting match fixer than blindly believing that match-fixing doesn't exist and do nothing about it. Death sentence does stop the person who killed already from killing more though. 
Not exactly, takes 15 years or so from sentence to execution, In which they could kill other inmates or guards, "what they goin to do, sentence me to death again?", Im sure I heard that in a movie or 2
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On February 01 2016 16:27 NyxNax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 16:12 Phredxor wrote:On February 01 2016 16:10 eScaper-tsunami wrote:On February 01 2016 14:54 TaKeTV wrote:On February 01 2016 14:43 Shortizz wrote:
Should ban all the proven match fixers from all related activities. Tournament, streaming etc etc, they should be banned for life. Because of people's statement like ''give them a chance'', supporting cheater's afreeca streams, this problem will never go away. Ban them for ''life'' Death sentence doesn't stop people from killing. Same applies here. I hate it as well but it won't make it go away. Death sentence doesn't stop (all) people from killing. Anyway it's sad that great players such as Life has participated in match fixing but if anything at least we know the prosecutors are taking the matter very seriously. IMO it's better to know the system is doing their best and arresting match fixer than blindly believing that match-fixing doesn't exist and do nothing about it. Death sentence does stop the person who killed already from killing more though. Not exactly, takes 15 years or so from sentence to execution, In which they could kill other inmates or guards, "what they goin to do, sentence me to death again?", Im sure I heard that in a movie or 2
I don't think that when you sentence someone to death you let him runaway freely until you execute him...
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On February 01 2016 16:20 Rekrul wrote:
why scapegoat the famous one and let all the other ones slide
Mainly because it's more appealing to the operation to make it seem like it was just one or two big names than to make it seem more widespread by including more people.
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On February 01 2016 16:34 WrathSCII wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 16:27 NyxNax wrote:On February 01 2016 16:12 Phredxor wrote:On February 01 2016 16:10 eScaper-tsunami wrote:On February 01 2016 14:54 TaKeTV wrote:On February 01 2016 14:43 Shortizz wrote:
Should ban all the proven match fixers from all related activities. Tournament, streaming etc etc, they should be banned for life. Because of people's statement like ''give them a chance'', supporting cheater's afreeca streams, this problem will never go away. Ban them for ''life'' Death sentence doesn't stop people from killing. Same applies here. I hate it as well but it won't make it go away. Death sentence doesn't stop (all) people from killing. Anyway it's sad that great players such as Life has participated in match fixing but if anything at least we know the prosecutors are taking the matter very seriously. IMO it's better to know the system is doing their best and arresting match fixer than blindly believing that match-fixing doesn't exist and do nothing about it. Death sentence does stop the person who killed already from killing more though. Not exactly, takes 15 years or so from sentence to execution, In which they could kill other inmates or guards, "what they goin to do, sentence me to death again?", Im sure I heard that in a movie or 2 I don't think that when you sentence someone to death you let him runaway freely until you execute him...
Lets not stray too far off topic here, but if you notice I said he could kill "inmates or guards", implying that he would be in prison.
Anyway, as previously mentioned, I wonder what other names were on that list of people involved in match-fixing and I wonder what the extent of Lifes involvement was. Hopefully there will be some details on it soon like there was for the other players caught. Something simple as a prop bet(like make a swarmhost) or did he actually take a dive in a game?
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On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:
Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time.
So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain.
Being arrested is a separate thing from being charged at least in the legal systems I'm familiar with. I believe the conviction rates are for cases where the prosecutor decides to raise charges so I'm not sure we can directly infer from them that Life's as likely to be found guilty as that. Of course the probability still would seem to be fairly high for such strong measures to be taken but maybe not almost a foregone conclusion like it would be if we were talking about him being actually charged.
Especially because the "nicer" explanation offered for the high probability of being found guilty by the Japanese who have a similar system and a similarly high conviction rate is that they're really thorough and only raise charges when they're very certain that it will lead to a conviction. I don't think that's all there is to it but it might play a part...
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On February 01 2016 16:10 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 15:16 Caihead wrote:On February 01 2016 14:57 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 01 2016 14:54 ZAiNs wrote:On February 01 2016 14:51 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 01 2016 14:43 Shortizz wrote:
Should ban all the proven match fixers from all related activities. Tournament, streaming etc etc, they should be banned for life. Because of people's statement like ''give them a chance'', supporting cheater's afreeca streams, this problem will never go away. Ban them for ''life'' From streaming too? Come on, that's a bit harsh don't you think? It's harsh to prevent them from profiting from a game they tried to destroy? I mean its not like Life just set Blizzard's HQ on fire or anything. He didn't destroy the game, he just lost a few games there and there. I think you can actually make a very convincing argument that arson would have done much less damage economically and socially to the promotion, sponsorship confidence, and integrity of the game when compared to a player in Life's position match-fixing. No you can't. One of the matches in question by the witch hunters is one against solar. Like maybe solar legit won it? I mean is he so awful he has no chance against a player like life, ever? Not everyone plays their absolute best all the time but I guess koreans think if your such a badass like life then you have to win every match against what they view as a lesser opponent. Can never be an underdog according to these people. Then again he could be guilty and they are right. Still one proleague match is nothing close to arson. Nobody will even care after lotv is released and interest in the game picks back up if life is convicted or not. Look at how much saviour cheated and how broodwar had more money than sc2 when it started involved. Give me a break. Oh and btw kespa still survived even years after gomtv became a nonfactor in broadcasting starcraft coverage for the second game. Just like how they survived after the first game. Starcraft 3 comes kespa will probably still be there.
Life came in 2nd at DH W13, DH W14, WCS finals 15, DH W15. Are ForGG, sOs and Taeja (x2) deserving champions or did Life throw?
But.. it's not even the specific matches won/lost that matter. It's the entire basis of competitive sport! Without legit competition you're left with a scripted show. Not that it doesn't have it's place, but WWE ends up more like DBZ than MMA. How can you ever talk about who's the better player / race / strategy if you can't take results seriously?
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On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 12:00 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:21 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 11:18 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:01 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 10:55 JackONeill wrote:
So is he just accused, or is it pretty certain from now on that he participated in matchfixing? It depends on your level of intelligence. Are you like the majority of users here it seems and feel the need to keep posting things like "innocent until proven guilty" or some other "this is a misunderstanding" or are you logical and realize there was likely some pretty hard evidence to arrest and charge one of the highest profile players we have. "It depends on your level of intelligence" That is a very dumb statement. Very well thought out post. Great content. It's basically self-evident that your statement was dumb. Accusations or charges of high-profile people do not necessarily mean they're guilty (even if Kespa's official position is that if you're charged with matchfixing then you're banned for life). Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time. So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain.
That's bullshit. Arrested doesn't mean charged or guilty by any means. Everyone, even with very basic understanding of law, should know this.
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On February 01 2016 11:48 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 11:35 showstealer1829 wrote:On February 01 2016 11:31 NyxNax wrote:On February 01 2016 11:26 stuchiu wrote:
This was probably what Wolf meant. I mustve missed it, did Wolf warn of some impending doom? When the Prime thing broke he did a Twitch session where he said that he'd heard names that would shock people Yeah he said he saw a list or something of names that would be a really big deal. 
can we bet on who is next ?
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On February 01 2016 14:54 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 14:43 Shortizz wrote:
Should ban all the proven match fixers from all related activities. Tournament, streaming etc etc, they should be banned for life. Because of people's statement like ''give them a chance'', supporting cheater's afreeca streams, this problem will never go away. Ban them for ''life'' Death sentence doesn't stop people from killing. Same applies here. I hate it as well but it won't make it go away.
fair point. but please do not compare death penalty with a ban on streaming video games!
edit: and match fixing with killing people...
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On February 01 2016 17:24 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 12:00 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:21 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 11:18 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:01 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 10:55 JackONeill wrote:
So is he just accused, or is it pretty certain from now on that he participated in matchfixing? It depends on your level of intelligence. Are you like the majority of users here it seems and feel the need to keep posting things like "innocent until proven guilty" or some other "this is a misunderstanding" or are you logical and realize there was likely some pretty hard evidence to arrest and charge one of the highest profile players we have. "It depends on your level of intelligence" That is a very dumb statement. Very well thought out post. Great content. It's basically self-evident that your statement was dumb. Accusations or charges of high-profile people do not necessarily mean they're guilty (even if Kespa's official position is that if you're charged with matchfixing then you're banned for life). Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time. So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain. That's bullshit. Arrested doesn't mean charged or guilty by any means. Everyone, even with very basic understanding of law, should know this.
If he is charged then you can be pretty sure he will be convicted... It is very different there than in the USA, which has around *** conviction rate, compared to South Korea which is around 99%(or it used to be, I cant find recent statistics). Yes it is not guaranteed, but many people are assuming that they didn't arrest him without a slam dunk.
I'd like to wait for more details before making judgements. I guess I'll point out that they did charge BboongBboong, Keen and Gerrard correct?
edit: conviction rates seem to very greatly in the US and depends if its a state or federal court. According to wiki the USA has a 93% conviction rate in federal court while the state courts seem to very a lot more.
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it's so funny that the suspected match Life fixed was against Solar
Life's only chance is if the Judge is a zerg player
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 01 2016 17:43 NyxNax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 17:24 Pr0wler wrote:On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 12:00 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:21 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 11:18 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:01 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 10:55 JackONeill wrote:
So is he just accused, or is it pretty certain from now on that he participated in matchfixing? It depends on your level of intelligence. Are you like the majority of users here it seems and feel the need to keep posting things like "innocent until proven guilty" or some other "this is a misunderstanding" or are you logical and realize there was likely some pretty hard evidence to arrest and charge one of the highest profile players we have. "It depends on your level of intelligence" That is a very dumb statement. Very well thought out post. Great content. It's basically self-evident that your statement was dumb. Accusations or charges of high-profile people do not necessarily mean they're guilty (even if Kespa's official position is that if you're charged with matchfixing then you're banned for life). Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time. So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain. That's bullshit. Arrested doesn't mean charged or guilty by any means. Everyone, even with very basic understanding of law, should know this. If he is charged then you can be pretty sure he will be convicted... It is very different there than in the USA, which has around a 40% conviction rate, compared to South Korea which is around 99%(or it used to be, I cant find recent statistics). Yes it is not guaranteed, but many people are assuming that they didn't arrest him without a slam dunk. I'd like to wait for more details before making judgements.
Well, KeSPA hasn't banned him yet so maybe there's some uncertainty. They were pretty quick about Prime, or is my mind playing tricks on me?
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On February 01 2016 17:15 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 16:10 Baarn wrote:On February 01 2016 15:16 Caihead wrote:On February 01 2016 14:57 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 01 2016 14:54 ZAiNs wrote:On February 01 2016 14:51 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 01 2016 14:43 Shortizz wrote:
Should ban all the proven match fixers from all related activities. Tournament, streaming etc etc, they should be banned for life. Because of people's statement like ''give them a chance'', supporting cheater's afreeca streams, this problem will never go away. Ban them for ''life'' From streaming too? Come on, that's a bit harsh don't you think? It's harsh to prevent them from profiting from a game they tried to destroy? I mean its not like Life just set Blizzard's HQ on fire or anything. He didn't destroy the game, he just lost a few games there and there. I think you can actually make a very convincing argument that arson would have done much less damage economically and socially to the promotion, sponsorship confidence, and integrity of the game when compared to a player in Life's position match-fixing. No you can't. One of the matches in question by the witch hunters is one against solar. Like maybe solar legit won it? I mean is he so awful he has no chance against a player like life, ever? Not everyone plays their absolute best all the time but I guess koreans think if your such a badass like life then you have to win every match against what they view as a lesser opponent. Can never be an underdog according to these people. Then again he could be guilty and they are right. Still one proleague match is nothing close to arson. Nobody will even care after lotv is released and interest in the game picks back up if life is convicted or not. Look at how much saviour cheated and how broodwar had more money than sc2 when it started involved. Give me a break. Oh and btw kespa still survived even years after gomtv became a nonfactor in broadcasting starcraft coverage for the second game. Just like how they survived after the first game. Starcraft 3 comes kespa will probably still be there. Life came in 2nd at DH W13, DH W14, WCS finals 15, DH W15. Are ForGG, sOs and Taeja (x2) deserving champions or did Life throw? But.. it's not even the specific matches won/lost that matter. It's the entire basis of competitive sport! Without legit competition you're left with a scripted show. Not that it doesn't have it's place, but WWE ends up more like DBZ than MMA. How can you ever talk about who's the better player / race / strategy if you can't take results seriously?
Imagine ForGG's touching Dreamhack win being only due to Life fixing.
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On February 01 2016 17:43 NyxNax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 17:24 Pr0wler wrote:On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 12:00 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:21 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 11:18 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:01 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 10:55 JackONeill wrote:
So is he just accused, or is it pretty certain from now on that he participated in matchfixing? It depends on your level of intelligence. Are you like the majority of users here it seems and feel the need to keep posting things like "innocent until proven guilty" or some other "this is a misunderstanding" or are you logical and realize there was likely some pretty hard evidence to arrest and charge one of the highest profile players we have. "It depends on your level of intelligence" That is a very dumb statement. Very well thought out post. Great content. It's basically self-evident that your statement was dumb. Accusations or charges of high-profile people do not necessarily mean they're guilty (even if Kespa's official position is that if you're charged with matchfixing then you're banned for life). Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time. So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain. That's bullshit. Arrested doesn't mean charged or guilty by any means. Everyone, even with very basic understanding of law, should know this. If he is charged then you can be pretty sure he will be convicted... It is very different there than in the USA, which has around *** conviction rate, compared to South Korea which is around 99%(or it used to be, I cant find recent statistics). Yes it is not guaranteed, but many people are assuming that they didn't arrest him without a slam dunk. I'd like to wait for more details before making judgements. edit: conviction rates seem to very greatly in the US and depends if its a state or federal court. According to wiki the USA has a 93% conviction rate in federal court while the state courts seem to very a lot more.
That's a pretty big "If". Otherwise I agree. We need to know more.
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On February 01 2016 17:51 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 17:43 NyxNax wrote:On February 01 2016 17:24 Pr0wler wrote:On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 12:00 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:21 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 11:18 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:01 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 10:55 JackONeill wrote:
So is he just accused, or is it pretty certain from now on that he participated in matchfixing? It depends on your level of intelligence. Are you like the majority of users here it seems and feel the need to keep posting things like "innocent until proven guilty" or some other "this is a misunderstanding" or are you logical and realize there was likely some pretty hard evidence to arrest and charge one of the highest profile players we have. "It depends on your level of intelligence" That is a very dumb statement. Very well thought out post. Great content. It's basically self-evident that your statement was dumb. Accusations or charges of high-profile people do not necessarily mean they're guilty (even if Kespa's official position is that if you're charged with matchfixing then you're banned for life). Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time. So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain. That's bullshit. Arrested doesn't mean charged or guilty by any means. Everyone, even with very basic understanding of law, should know this. If he is charged then you can be pretty sure he will be convicted... It is very different there than in the USA, which has around a 40% conviction rate, compared to South Korea which is around 99%(or it used to be, I cant find recent statistics). Yes it is not guaranteed, but many people are assuming that they didn't arrest him without a slam dunk. I'd like to wait for more details before making judgements. Well, KeSPA hasn't banned him yet so maybe there's some uncertainty. They were pretty quick about Prime, or is my mind playing tricks on me?
Yea they did seem to respond pretty quick, but it has only been 24 hours since this was posted on TL, not sure how long it was posted after his arrest, so I got no clue.. I imagine we will hear something soon from both sides.
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Life will never be the same...
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On February 01 2016 17:15 y0su wrote:
Life came in 2nd at DH W13, DH W14, WCS finals 15, DH W15. Are ForGG, sOs and Taeja (x2) deserving champions or did Life throw?
But.. it's not even the specific matches won/lost that matter. It's the entire basis of competitive sport! Without legit competition you're left with a scripted show. Not that it doesn't have it's place, but WWE ends up more like DBZ than MMA. How can you ever talk about who's the better player / race / strategy if you can't take results seriously?
Scripting a game and making it look real is so hard that it doesn't make any sense to do it when Starcraft is already so difficult. It would look like crap and wouldn't be as entertaining as the real thing. If matchfixing is going on, the kind where you straight up lose games on purpose, it's not in the finals, it's in Qualifiers and Challenger Round and team matches. It probably happened a lot in WoL, because WoL was a snoozefest, but we're going to pretend that didn't happen (because WoL was a snoozefest). HotS/LotV don't need "fake hype".
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On February 01 2016 17:24 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 12:14 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 12:00 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:21 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 11:18 Doodsmack wrote:On February 01 2016 11:01 Grizvok wrote:On February 01 2016 10:55 JackONeill wrote:
So is he just accused, or is it pretty certain from now on that he participated in matchfixing? It depends on your level of intelligence. Are you like the majority of users here it seems and feel the need to keep posting things like "innocent until proven guilty" or some other "this is a misunderstanding" or are you logical and realize there was likely some pretty hard evidence to arrest and charge one of the highest profile players we have. "It depends on your level of intelligence" That is a very dumb statement. Very well thought out post. Great content. It's basically self-evident that your statement was dumb. Accusations or charges of high-profile people do not necessarily mean they're guilty (even if Kespa's official position is that if you're charged with matchfixing then you're banned for life). Except if you read this thread you would see many occasions where people showcase the differences in the legal system in Korea where after an arrest/ being charged you are going to be found guilty 99% of the time because they are that thorough before actually making that move. Are you really so naive to think this is some recent development? I guarantee you the Life investigation and collection of evidence has been going on for some time. So yes logically I can pretty easily say he's guilty and at this point so would anybody with half a brain. That's bullshit. Arrested doesn't mean charged or guilty by any means. Everyone, even with very basic understanding of law, should know this.
Have you read the details? He's definitely not convicted yet but the logical jump that he will be isn't BS.
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EPT
