• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:34
CEST 19:34
KST 02:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL82
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 721 users

First LotV Balance Patch - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
366 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 19 Next All
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4541 Posts
January 26 2016 12:14 GMT
#101
On January 26 2016 21:11 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 20:58 Laurens wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


As long as you can win premier tournaments by beating zergs 4-1 in the finals it's all good, right?


It was really well played by the protoss obviously and bad by the zerg. There is nothing more to it.


Bly played bad? Haha.

But I'm glad you've found the solution for yourself: start playing well.
sa1Ko
Profile Joined July 2015
Argentina99 Posts
January 26 2016 12:21 GMT
#102
I am getting diabetes.... Protoss tears are too sweet :D
Next time tell players like Seed not to thank DK on a televised game for his wins ! Hahahahaha
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
January 26 2016 12:23 GMT
#103
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


Yes it can. But claiming single digits is just moronic.

And alligulac balance is not the end all stats of truth. Just so you know.

We need the game to be balance at the top level. Not in gold league.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
January 26 2016 12:24 GMT
#104
On January 26 2016 21:02 AbouSV wrote:
What is the starting energy for MSC?
What will be the energy for PO?


50 and 50
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
January 26 2016 12:25 GMT
#105
On January 26 2016 21:14 Laurens wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 21:11 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:58 Laurens wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


As long as you can win premier tournaments by beating zergs 4-1 in the finals it's all good, right?


It was really well played by the protoss obviously and bad by the zerg. There is nothing more to it.


Bly played bad? Haha.

But I'm glad you've found the solution for yourself: start playing well.


Bly did play a bad finals. Rewatch to confirm.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
mr.food
Profile Joined January 2016
2 Posts
January 26 2016 12:27 GMT
#106
I don't understand why does it say that PO lasts for 14 sec when you play the map, but in these changes it says 15 to 20? Neither of which seem to be true
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
January 26 2016 12:28 GMT
#107
On January 26 2016 21:23 Mozdk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


Yes it can. But claiming single digits is just moronic.

And alligulac balance is not the end all stats of truth. Just so you know.

We need the game to be balance at the top level. Not in gold league.

It takes only professional games, isn't it?
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55511 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 12:30:49
January 26 2016 12:29 GMT
#108
On January 26 2016 21:28 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 21:23 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


Yes it can. But claiming single digits is just moronic.

And alligulac balance is not the end all stats of truth. Just so you know.

We need the game to be balance at the top level. Not in gold league.

It takes only professional games, isn't it?

The games can be of vastly different quality. It includes games from actual pro level players against amateurs and semi-pros aswell, which screws up all the numbers for things like qualifiers and even Dreamhacks.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
adamhu10
Profile Joined October 2015
4 Posts
January 26 2016 12:32 GMT
#109
Who cares about EU and NA scores? The game should be balanced only for GSL, SSL and Proleague - you know, actual top level Starcraft.
Mozdk
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark6989 Posts
January 26 2016 12:32 GMT
#110
On January 26 2016 21:28 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 21:23 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


Yes it can. But claiming single digits is just moronic.

And alligulac balance is not the end all stats of truth. Just so you know.

We need the game to be balance at the top level. Not in gold league.

It takes only professional games, isn't it?


Well it doesn't say that. We don't know what data they are using. Other than top ladder. We don't know if this means diamond+ or top 20 GM.

You can't rely on stats when you don't know what pool of matches the stats are coming from. It's not a valid argument. And it wouldn't be anywhere.
"It's really hard to Protoss" - White-Ra |||| "Apedts are dfucking amazing" - Lorning
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4541 Posts
January 26 2016 12:34 GMT
#111
On January 26 2016 21:32 adamhu10 wrote:
Who cares about EU and NA scores? The game should be balanced only for GSL, SSL and Proleague - you know, actual top level Starcraft.


Last I checked, Protoss players in GSL were thanking David Kim and Korean coaches were demanding nerfs. So it looks like top level starcraft agrees with this patch.
Longduzboub
Profile Joined June 2013
40 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 12:40:39
January 26 2016 12:34 GMT
#112
On January 26 2016 21:29 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 21:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On January 26 2016 21:23 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


Yes it can. But claiming single digits is just moronic.

And alligulac balance is not the end all stats of truth. Just so you know.

We need the game to be balance at the top level. Not in gold league.

It takes only professional games, isn't it?

The games can be of vastly different quality. It includes games from actual pro level players against amateurs and semi-pros aswell, which screws up all the numbers for things like qualifiers and even Dreamhacks.

Weird, numbers are screwed in zerg's favour every single season

On January 26 2016 21:32 Mozdk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2016 21:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On January 26 2016 21:23 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:56 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 20:38 Mozdk wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
On January 26 2016 19:22 ETisME wrote:
These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf


Protoss will have around 30-40% winrate against terran and probably single digit against zerg. The glory days of starcraft are over.


30-40% is really yelling "worst update ever". It will definately not be that bad. No one will take you seriously when you are claiming things the whole scene knows not to be true. From bronze to GM.


PvZ is already at 41% and there is a toss nerf so it can only go lower.


Yes it can. But claiming single digits is just moronic.

And alligulac balance is not the end all stats of truth. Just so you know.

We need the game to be balance at the top level. Not in gold league.

It takes only professional games, isn't it?


Well it doesn't say that. We don't know what data they are using. Other than top ladder. We don't know if this means diamond+ or top 20 GM.

You can't rely on stats when you don't know what pool of matches the stats are coming from. It's not a valid argument. And it wouldn't be anywhere.

Aligulac is based on tournament games only, for the 'ranking' page at least. Dunno about the 'balance report' charts.
kaluro
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands760 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-26 12:42:37
January 26 2016 12:39 GMT
#113
On January 26 2016 14:21 BronzeKnee wrote:
I recommend you click the link I provided or provide me some links that show Protoss with a winning percentage.

PvZ, in terms of winrate, is in the worst place it has ever been in. Neither race has ever been favored as much as Zerg is right now. Terran is favored in PvT, in terms of winrate. I know that is hard to understand given what Seed said and the what Terrans are saying, but the facts speak clearly, Terran wins more often against Protoss than vice versa.

So I don't know what you are talking about. Ptitdrogo pulled a Fruitdealer.


In korea protosses are really extremely dominant. Korea is miles ahead of the metagame and protoss is such a dominant force there. The fact that you decide to add in non-korean statistics doesn't mean that protoss isn't in an incredible spot right now
www.twitch.tv/kaluroo - 720p60fps - Remember the name! - Don't do your best, do whatever it takes.
Kurbz
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia88 Posts
January 26 2016 12:44 GMT
#114
I don't know why anyone is surprised, the game is only ever balanced at the pro scene while the lower divisions cop the pineapple.
Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
rockslave
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Brazil318 Posts
January 26 2016 12:50 GMT
#115
Best patch ever!

PvT needed it a lot, just look at TY x Patience. The lesser player wins if and only if he adept rushes.

PvZ will be hard indeed, but other solutions are needed. PO is boring. The game is not supposed to symmetric. Protoss should be stronger than zerg on less bases, but have trouble expanding as much. Perhaps roach/ravager should be nerfed, not protoss buffed.
What qxc said.
cutler
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany609 Posts
January 26 2016 12:58 GMT
#116
I like this change
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12161 Posts
January 26 2016 13:02 GMT
#117
Don't go play LoL or whatever... The balance won't be changed in two months, you should try and figure out how to win under the new circumstances (it's kind of the point of the game really).
No will to live, no wish to die
TheoMikkelsen
Profile Joined June 2013
Denmark196 Posts
January 26 2016 13:07 GMT
#118
I am very afraid for the protoss race.
Any sufficiently cheesy build is indistinguishable in skill
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
January 26 2016 13:14 GMT
#119
On January 26 2016 21:44 Kurbz wrote:
I don't know why anyone is surprised, the game is only ever balanced at the pro scene while the lower divisions cop the pineapple.

SC2's equivalent to: "My teammates suck."
ProtossMasterRace
Profile Joined January 2016
57 Posts
January 26 2016 13:15 GMT
#120
On January 26 2016 21:50 rockslave wrote:
Best patch ever!

PvT needed it a lot, just look at TY x Patience. The lesser player wins if and only if he adept rushes.

PvZ will be hard indeed, but other solutions are needed. PO is boring. The game is not supposed to symmetric. Protoss should be stronger than zerg on less bases, but have trouble expanding as much. Perhaps roach/ravager should be nerfed, not protoss buffed.


TY won that game and he is the terran...don't know what you are talking about and Patience is the rank 1 on Korean GM ladder so he should be a decent enough player.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
15:00
Polish Championship - Playoffs
Spirit vs GeraldLIVE!
Elazer vs MaNa
IndyStarCraft 468
CranKy Ducklings308
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 468
Hui .168
BRAT_OK 118
MindelVK 45
ForJumy 22
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 1171
Larva 835
firebathero 507
Dewaltoss 82
Barracks 71
LaStScan 71
Shinee 61
Aegong 50
Movie 30
Terrorterran 20
[ Show more ]
sas.Sziky 13
Stormgate
BeoMulf172
Dota 2
Gorgc11095
qojqva3183
League of Legends
Dendi1452
Counter-Strike
fl0m1099
flusha306
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor903
Liquid`Hasu471
Other Games
FrodaN6372
singsing2542
B2W.Neo1747
mouzStarbuck204
RotterdaM166
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick5292
EGCTV2224
StarCraft 2
angryscii 9
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 43
• Adnapsc2 25
• LUISG 2
• OhrlRock 1
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 706
• Ler113
League of Legends
• Nemesis5335
Other Games
• imaqtpie1001
• Shiphtur214
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
26m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
17h 26m
Replay Cast
1d 16h
WardiTV European League
1d 22h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.