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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that.
Protoss army is pathetic without any upgrades and heavily relies on proper force fields. With the new economy all the proper upgrades come too late. Therefore Protoss needs a buff or a band aid. We received a band aid unit. Many Protoss hate the band aid unit.
Also force fields are no longer that strong.
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On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that.
Zerg has queens and can build spores and spines just by building a spawning pool.
Terran t1 units are a lot stronger so they are safe early on with maybe a bunker at the front.
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On January 26 2016 18:09 ProtossMasterRace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that. Zerg has queens and can build spores and spines just by building a spawning pool. Terran t1 units are a lot stronger so they are safe early on with maybe a bunker at the front.
lol which terran units are we talking about here?
It's like the -1 damage has suddenly made adepts bad vs marines or what?
Cannons are so much better than bunkers too. Use them.
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On January 26 2016 18:21 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 18:09 ProtossMasterRace wrote:On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that. Zerg has queens and can build spores and spines just by building a spawning pool. Terran t1 units are a lot stronger so they are safe early on with maybe a bunker at the front. lol which terran units are we talking about here? It's like the -1 damage has suddenly made adepts bad vs marines or what? Cannons are so much better than bunkers too. Use them.
Yes, yes it has. Marines that are t1 cheap units will trade cost efficiently against t1.5 adepts that are specifically anti light unit.
You need a forge to build cannons, you only need barracks (which you build anyways for bunkers) and cannons are 50% more expensive and cannot be salvaged.
Zerg will have an even easier time A moving over protoss, I expect single digit winrates in PvZ...
I guess I'll just have to wait a month or two to play the game again after this horribly stupid and unwarranted patch.
User was warned for this post
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On January 26 2016 18:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 18:21 Laurens wrote:On January 26 2016 18:09 ProtossMasterRace wrote:On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that. Zerg has queens and can build spores and spines just by building a spawning pool. Terran t1 units are a lot stronger so they are safe early on with maybe a bunker at the front. lol which terran units are we talking about here? It's like the -1 damage has suddenly made adepts bad vs marines or what? Cannons are so much better than bunkers too. Use them. Yes, yes it has. Marines that are t1 cheap units will trade cost efficiently against t1.5 adepts that are specifically anti light unit. You need a forge to build cannons, you only need barracks (which you build anyways for bunkers) and cannons are 50% more expensive and cannot be salvaged. Zerg will have an even easier time A moving over protoss, I expect single digit winrates in PvZ... I guess I'll just have to wait a month or two to play the game again after this horribly stupid and unwarranted patch.
lmao stop being dramatic, adepts 3-shot marines and they still have shade.
Cannons are detectors, hit air and ground, don't require units to man them. 2 ppl can play this game. In terms of static d protoss definitely has the best tools lol. You just refuse to build the forge to use them? Too bad.
It's like FFE wasn't a main build in PvZ for years and years lol. Now suddenly building a forge is too much. smh.
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On January 26 2016 14:20 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 14:16 BronzeKnee wrote:On January 26 2016 14:13 DinoMight wrote:
As a Protoss player I'm okay with these changes...
... I'm just going to play Dota 2 until they realize they need to buff our mid/late-game to compensate. League of Legends for me. They took the race that was winning less than 50% in both non-mirrors and nerfed them without giving any compensatory buffs. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/Ptitdrogo winning Dreamhack was like when Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Incredible win against a race that had nearly a 60% winrate versus his race. Er PvT is Protoss favored right now lol. Protoss has a winning %. Btw PvZ isn't in bad shape for toss either. If foreign protosses would realize how strong Phoenix into Chargelot/archon/immortal is, they would realize that PvZ isn't bad at all. But no let's just bitch about balance because I don't want to try something really strong. That is before this patch. I will say with this patch Protoss will probably need buffed to compensate somewhere.
Drogo has been using Chargelot/archon/immortal since HSC (though without the double stargate opening he'd just kill the zerg before muta's in that tournament). And at DH we saw a lot of Phoenix into Charlot/archon/immortal/HT.
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On January 26 2016 13:03 Merkmerk wrote:
God I can't wait for this patch. PB nerf is going to suck and expose how broken liberators are in TvZ even more but it will be so nice to punish greedy toss instead of watching them mass phoenix and defend 3 bases with nothing but an MSC and pylons
It's only a matter of time before Liberators get hit with the nerf bat, but what does Terran really have without them in their current state? Late game tech units from both Protoss and Zerg simply shit all over anything Terran can put together except for armies based around Liberators.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 26 2016 18:29 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 18:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:On January 26 2016 18:21 Laurens wrote:On January 26 2016 18:09 ProtossMasterRace wrote:On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that. Zerg has queens and can build spores and spines just by building a spawning pool. Terran t1 units are a lot stronger so they are safe early on with maybe a bunker at the front. lol which terran units are we talking about here? It's like the -1 damage has suddenly made adepts bad vs marines or what? Cannons are so much better than bunkers too. Use them. Yes, yes it has. Marines that are t1 cheap units will trade cost efficiently against t1.5 adepts that are specifically anti light unit. You need a forge to build cannons, you only need barracks (which you build anyways for bunkers) and cannons are 50% more expensive and cannot be salvaged. Zerg will have an even easier time A moving over protoss, I expect single digit winrates in PvZ... I guess I'll just have to wait a month or two to play the game again after this horribly stupid and unwarranted patch. lmao stop being dramatic, adepts 3-shot marines and they still have shade. Cannons are detectors, hit air and ground, don't require units to man them. 2 ppl can play this game. In terms of static d protoss definitely has the best tools lol. You just refuse to build the forge to use them? Too bad. It's like FFE wasn't a main build in PvZ for years and years lol. Now suddenly building a forge is too much. smh.
Well before we were starting with LESS PROBES!!!!! So building a forge first DID NOT slow your tech THAT MUCH!!!!
Also ravagers > cannons. I somehow don't care about the change for PvT, but I think the change is shit for PvZ since Zerg has "cheap" long range unit that burns cannons faster than fast. Pylons have better survivability against them... think about it again.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
It's like FFE wasn't a main build in PvZ for years and years lol. Now suddenly building a forge is too much
Cannons are really awful against ground zerg at all stages of the game and (i know you're not suggesting this) they removed FFE-like openings from potential viability a long time ago
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On January 26 2016 18:29 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 18:25 ProtossMasterRace wrote:On January 26 2016 18:21 Laurens wrote:On January 26 2016 18:09 ProtossMasterRace wrote:On January 26 2016 17:54 Jj_82 wrote:On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this. I don't see why P should not build an army like everyone else early on, or get the forge for cannons. Having such an early flyer that offers offensive vision AND shooting pylons allows for being very greedy. Unlike any other race. I never understood that. Zerg has queens and can build spores and spines just by building a spawning pool. Terran t1 units are a lot stronger so they are safe early on with maybe a bunker at the front. lol which terran units are we talking about here? It's like the -1 damage has suddenly made adepts bad vs marines or what? Cannons are so much better than bunkers too. Use them. Yes, yes it has. Marines that are t1 cheap units will trade cost efficiently against t1.5 adepts that are specifically anti light unit. You need a forge to build cannons, you only need barracks (which you build anyways for bunkers) and cannons are 50% more expensive and cannot be salvaged. Zerg will have an even easier time A moving over protoss, I expect single digit winrates in PvZ... I guess I'll just have to wait a month or two to play the game again after this horribly stupid and unwarranted patch. lmao stop being dramatic, adepts 3-shot marines and they still have shade. Cannons are detectors, hit air and ground, don't require units to man them. 2 ppl can play this game. In terms of static d protoss definitely has the best tools lol. You just refuse to build the forge to use them? Too bad. It's like FFE wasn't a main build in PvZ for years and years lol. Now suddenly building a forge is too much. smh.
early defence against T with cannons doesn´t work in WOL, doesn`t work in HOTS and doesn´t work in LOTV
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Yup.. cannons is pretty shit for its cost. zerg has ravagers and nydus later on. Can easily be killed by stimmed small groups of mm with medivacs. It's easy to say just build units when you only need hatchery and not antoher production bldgs for units. Build those early on and you will get shat on in mid game by mutas, or outnumbered and outmacroed heavily by zerg,
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On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:
Let's see if I am correct when predicting all P matchups will change a lot. I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this.
Mama will be able to defend once. And then you need 5 stalkers in all mineral lines. Wont be pretty for the first 6 minuts of PvP and PvT.
Wow protoss player are sure very comfortable, as a Terran player we always need marines, cyclones multiple turrets and even maybe bunker on every !!! Mineral line , since we are scared of potential adept drop or oracles , so stop whining that u now need unit or cannons ( y what's that never heard of this strange buildinh right ? That's a 150mineral no energy 'pyloncannon') as well instead of just 1 mothershipcore to defend every harass or drop
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On January 26 2016 12:31 CursOr wrote:
i never thought i would see the day where i would be running from pylons
second, i am glad they did not nerf spore vs bio. i feel like muta is an option now, but not the end all. with the proposed change, muta would have been the build of choice. those games are way way worse than roach ravager.
Artosis' revenge, redirecting to iNcontroL didn't work
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On January 26 2016 19:01 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 12:36 Mozdk wrote:
Let's see if I am correct when predicting all P matchups will change a lot. I don't see P doing a good job defending early on, when they didn't add additional range to this.
Mama will be able to defend once. And then you need 5 stalkers in all mineral lines. Wont be pretty for the first 6 minuts of PvP and PvT. Wow protoss player are sure very comfortable, as a Terran player we always need marines, cyclones multiple turrets and even maybe bunker on every !!! Mineral line , since we are scared of potential adept drop or oracles , so stop whining that u now need unit or cannons ( y what's that never heard of this strange buildinh right ? That's a 150mineral no energy 'pyloncannon') as well instead of just 1 mothershipcore to defend every harass or drop
Yes but gateway units are a lot weaker compared to bio. I really don't like PO but it is necessary to compensate for weak gateway units. I think instead of nerfing PO they should entirely remove it and buff gateway units instead.
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On January 26 2016 15:43 starslayer wrote:
LOVING the protoss tears in this thread its great, maybe now toss wont PO a scouting scv or an OL ( prolly still will) and maybe have to think about when to Overcharge rather then being about to spam it and make units again, also hopefully they cant just take 3 base off one unit and a couple pylons for the threat of pylon rushes or warp prism drops. It really sad how toss think its ok too be so greedy and basically defend everything. but if terran or zerg could do it, its a problem.
I agree there is a degree of humour how much protoss whine there is over what is really a minor nerf to overcharge. As an example from today before the patch:
If zerg opens 3 hatch before pool on say Orbital Shipyard, protosss can take a 3rd nexus BEFORE cybercore and be completely safe with a MsC started just as core finishes + a bare minimum of units (1 adept, 4 sentries). Because of the larvae nerf, this allows protoss to be even with zerg in worker count all the way up to 70 probes (high masters protoss play). There is not much zerg can do to stop that level of greed atm, so adjusting that with a reasonable nerf to overcharge I feel is justified.
Having said that, I think it is possible that late game PvZ strength could be an area of concern and to be watched closely. The viper nerf may help protoss use void rays a bit more, which could help. Hopefully that will mean that mass carrier is not the only strong late game army for protoss and more mobile/microable comps are also viable deep into the late game (carrier/tempest is so snowbally, slow moving and deathball A-move boring - subjective, ofc).
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
If zerg opens 3 hatch before pool
There is not much zerg can do to stop that level of greed atm
aside from not opening 3hatch before pool? I haven't played in a couple months, but it sounds pretty shit if either side can do that for free.
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On January 26 2016 13:45 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Now everybody will notice how weak lotv protoss is. Without the economic lead PO and Adepts were giving, liberayors and ravagers will demolish protoss.
Well and that is a good thing no? Now they can start helping Protoss play non gimmicky and have a chance instead on relying on the BS.
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It seems harsh to have 2 nerfs at the same time but you can't disagree with any of them.
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On January 26 2016 19:12 LoveTool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2016 15:43 starslayer wrote:
LOVING the protoss tears in this thread its great, maybe now toss wont PO a scouting scv or an OL ( prolly still will) and maybe have to think about when to Overcharge rather then being about to spam it and make units again, also hopefully they cant just take 3 base off one unit and a couple pylons for the threat of pylon rushes or warp prism drops. It really sad how toss think its ok too be so greedy and basically defend everything. but if terran or zerg could do it, its a problem. I agree there is a degree of humour how much protoss whine there is over what is really a minor nerf to overcharge. As an example from today before the patch: If zerg opens 3 hatch before pool on say Orbital Shipyard, protosss can take a 3rd nexus BEFORE cybercore and be completely safe with a MsC started just as core finishes + a bare minimum of units (1 adept, 4 sentries). Because of the larvae nerf, this allows protoss to be even with zerg in worker count all the way up to 70 probes (high masters protoss play). There is not much zerg can do to stop that level of greed atm, so adjusting that with a reasonable nerf to overcharge I feel is justified.
If you build cybercore after 3rd nexus you are dead to basically a couple of zerglings so no you absolutely cannot do that. By that time your cybercore would finish zerg can build 20-30 zerglings even if they opened 3 hatch before pool.
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These are big nerf to protoss, surprised nothing is buff to compensate other than the damage.
Protoss has to reconfigure their builds with this nerf
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EPT
