EPTFirst LotV Balance Patch - Page 2
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
... I'm just going to play Dota 2 until they realize they need to buff our mid/late-game to compensate. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:13 DinoMight wrote: As a Protoss player I'm okay with these changes... ... I'm just going to play Dota 2 until they realize they need to buff our mid/late-game to compensate. League of Legends for me. They took the race that was winning less than 50% in both non-mirrors and nerfed them without giving any compensatory buffs. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ Ptitdrogo winning Dreamhack was like when Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Incredible win against a race that had nearly a 60% winrate versus his race. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:16 BronzeKnee wrote: League of Legends for me. They took the race that was winning less than 50% in both non-mirrors and nerfed them without giving any compensatory buffs. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ Ptitdrogo winning Dreamhack was like when Fruitdealer won the first GSL. Incredible win against a race that had nearly a 60% winrate versus his race. Er PvT is Protoss favored right now lol. Protoss has a winning %. Btw PvZ isn't in bad shape for toss either. If foreign protosses would realize how strong Phoenix into Chargelot/archon/immortal is, they would realize that PvZ isn't bad at all. But no let's just bitch about balance because I don't want to try something really strong. That is before this patch. I will say with this patch Protoss will probably need buffed to compensate somewhere. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
PvZ, in terms of winrate, is in the worst place it has ever been in. Neither race has ever been favored as much as Zerg is right now. Terran is favored in PvT, in terms of winrate. I know that is hard to understand given what Seed said and the what Terrans are saying, but the facts speak clearly, Terran wins more often against Protoss than vice versa. So I don't know what you are talking about. Ptitdrogo pulled a Fruitdealer. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On January 26 2016 13:45 StarscreamG1 wrote: Now everybody will notice how weak lotv protoss is. Without the economic lead PO and Adepts were giving, liberayors and ravagers will demolish protoss. I'm actually fairly curious about this. It seems like strong potential for a snowball effect to me, I imagine Toss will have a much harder time holding those insanely fast thirds. Which is a good thing imo, but with nothing else to balance them out, potentially bad. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:21 BronzeKnee wrote: I recommend you click the link I provided or provide me some links that show Protoss with a winning percentage, because you are speaking ignorantly. PvZ, in terms of winrate, is in the worst place it has ever been in. Neither race has ever been favored as much as Zerg is right now. Terran is favored in PvT. I know that is hard to understand given what Seed said and the what Terrans are saying, but the facts speak clearly, Terran wins more often against Protoss than vice versa. So I don't know what you are talking about. Ptitdrogo pulled a Fruitdealer. Would've been tougher if Bly decided to play on the Zerg maps. | ||
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wishr
Russian Federation262 Posts
So delicious! | ||
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Vedeynevin
United States431 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:21 BronzeKnee wrote: I recommend you click the link I provided or provide me some links that show Protoss with a winning percentage. PvZ, in terms of winrate, is in the worst place it has ever been in. Neither race has ever been favored as much as Zerg is right now. Terran is favored in PvT. I know that is hard to understand given what Seed said and the what Terrans are saying, but the facts speak clearly, Terran wins more often against Protoss than vice versa. So I don't know what you are talking about. Ptitdrogo pulled a Fruitdealer. They are balancing based off the pro Korean scene. The results in gsl/ssl don't show zerg dominating p, sorry. Now after this patch I think protoss gonna collapse without its crutch. I think it will be. T>Z>>P<T | ||
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feanaro
United States123 Posts
Adepts: The annoying part about adepts was the shade cooldown, which still hasn't been increased. Zerg and protoss will still find them just as stupid to play against as before. I'm also skeptical if 14 scv kills will be that much more acceptable than 21 scv kills (maybe balanced with the liberator being too strong later, but its not really an ideal situation even then), and also whether sacrificing 3 adepts to do an allin with +1 attack researched will somehow make mass adept allins more acceptable to terrans. Pylon Overcharge in PvP I am very, very happy that pylon rushing won't be a thing in PvP anymore. The energy cost nerf should go a long way towards making tech/pressure based openers (that aren't allins like proxy robo) more viable again. On the other hand, the increase in damage output is not very helpful when trying to defend an expansion, and the duration boost is too small to provide sufficient compensation. Pylon Overcharge in PvZ: Protoss will have a slightly harder time taking thirds vs zerg, but other than a small delay, either to get out a couple more units or to drop a cannon or two, I don't think it will be too bad. I am actually more concerned about taking a natural. This is perhaps more a function of the stupid map pool we have, where on 4 player maps (where you can't scout a zerg in time to react if they are cheesing) the naturals are super wide open. This is further aggravated by the power of hatchery tech droplords which forces protoss to simultaneously defend a ridiculously exposed natural and also their main mineral line. With half as many overcharges as before, I'm not sure how well protoss will be able to defend vs ling drops + speedling pressure at natural: you need 2 adepts/zealots in the main mineral line, and enough units to hold the natural against the speedlings attacking the wall (or lack thereof, looking at you Lerilak). And lets not forget that on a map like Ruins of Seras, pylons/cannons won't cover both the wall and the natural mineral line so a ling drop there (or double ling drop in both mineral lines) will also be a threat. Oh, and ravage allins will be more powerful now too. How could I forget about those? PvZ Balance Thoughts Lastly I would just like to point out that in the last 3 months, the PvZ winrates as reported by Aligulac have been the 3 lowest ever recorded since WoL came out, and all 3 were below 45%. For context, TvP winrates during the height of the blink allin era bottommed out at 45.01% With these nerfs, I don't see PvZ getting near 50% anytime soon. A zerg favored map pool probably has something to do with it (I sincerely hope they get some decent community/Korean maps for next season), but I don't hear Blizzard addressing either of these concerns at all. | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
I feel like Adept's shade cooldown should be longer, but the fact that they no longer 2 shot marines is a good thing. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:21 BronzeKnee wrote: I recommend you click the link I provided or provide me some links that show Protoss with a winning percentage. PvZ, in terms of winrate, is in the worst place it has ever been in. Neither race has ever been favored as much as Zerg is right now. Terran is favored in PvT. I know that is hard to understand given what Seed said and the what Terrans are saying, but the facts speak clearly, Terran wins more often against Protoss than vice versa. So I don't know what you are talking about. Ptitdrogo pulled a Fruitdealer. I think the jury's still out on PvZ. Calling it the 'worst place it has ever been in' is hilariously myopic (and lends terrific aid to the calls that this is all just Protoss tears). And PvT T-favored? Dangerously close to a troll post or flame-bait post. On January 26 2016 14:29 FabledIntegral wrote: I'm actually fairly curious about this. It seems like strong potential for a snowball effect to me, I imagine Toss will have a much harder time holding those insanely fast thirds. Which is a good thing imo, but with nothing else to balance them out, potentially bad. They shouldn't need that as a crutch, but who knows what new Korean playstyles will emerge now that free fast thirds are out of the picture. I think two weeks of the pro scene will be sufficient to see if a small buff is warranted (or compensating small nerf if it really is a ZvP problem). Still, balance can only get better with the crutch removed and Protoss forced to post results fighting at economic parity or slightly behind. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:55 Danglars wrote: I think the jury's still out on PvZ. Calling it the 'worst place it has ever been in' is hilariously myopic (and lends terrific aid to the calls that this is all just Protoss tears). And PvT T-favored? Dangerously close to a troll post or flame-bait. I didn't create the statistics that I base my opinion on. What is your opinion based on? Try to match up your perception with reality instead of listening to the loudest whining voices. There is no disagreeing that according to the winrates, PvZ is in the worst place it has ever been in. The win rate speaks for itself, it has never been this bad. You may argue that we should consider other things, but you can't deny that. It is like saying grass isn't green. Facts are facts: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ | ||
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sc2chronic
United States777 Posts
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
On January 26 2016 14:52 arb wrote: Isnt parasitic bomb the only spell in starcraft(bw included) that stacks? Irradiate had the same effect overlap if there were multiple irradiated units in a close space. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
this patch is very much needed and hopefully toss understand you should need units to defend bases and not supply structures. and think about it if toss does go to shit that means (hopefully) blizzard will buff units and not one of the worst designed abilities ever created. (which they should've done in HOTS) also there is still alot of work on LOTV to become a good game mass libs is just silly needs tech lab,"skill shot" ravagers still need a look at, shade increase for adepts, channeling snipe, boring infestors, cyclone are just like the reaper in that you use them early to push away banshee/ warp prisms and thats really it, tankvac is just silly, warp prism range needs to be like 3 not 6. if no tech lab for libs no upgrade. and maybe not sure yet a slight dmg nerf to distruptors but idk yet. but ill say blizzard is listening and taking the right steps.small slow steps but were getting there. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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