EPTimo shade cancel should still be removed, but for design and not balance, due to how it can abuse the defender's positioning.
Community Feedback Update - January 13 - Page 8
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
imo shade cancel should still be removed, but for design and not balance, due to how it can abuse the defender's positioning. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:21 DinoMight wrote: This is with CURRENT mech units. If mech was buffed to the level that people want, received better AA options, etc. then it would obviously be OP. With current mech units, mech is literally unplayable. With buffs, mech would become playable. With more buffs, mech would become broken. Seems pretty straight forward. Buff it just enough for it to be playable but not broken and call it a day. | ||
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BamBam
745 Posts
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:58 jasonbourne907 wrote: Adept "-1 damage to light" is that nerf?? Yes. With -1 damage to light, Adepts need 3 hits to kill a SCV or no shield marine instead of 2. | ||
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Tresher
Germany404 Posts
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On January 14 2016 09:35 Tresher wrote: People here that complain about Mech being OP if they tweak it are so funny. You can clearly see that these are the people that A-move into Tanks (which shouldn´t be possible to some extend at least) and cry about not having enough counters for it, despite there being tons of options for every race. The fact is, like it or not, wether mech is weak or strong, a lot of people (and from my personal experience Terran as much as Zerg) are just not enjoying playing against mech or even just watching it. As far as I am concern, I do/did not A click into a mech army because I expected it to work, but I do it out of boredness and I just don't want to play that kind of game so I just want to leave quickly. If it works, well that's nice, if it's not working then I just leave the game even if I'm still ahead after the failed attack as I refuse to lose more time with it that I already did. That is the mindset that I have against mech, and I can't extrapolate about how many share my views about it I just know that many of Z/T I have discussed with toward the end of HoTS shared this mindset. So with that in mind, please understand that I (and I believe, a lot of people even among pros LiquidRet has been pretty vocal about it if I remember correctly) are against to any kind of mech buff because I do not really want to promote this very boring play style. The way I see it is that, it's like a Zerg who would want full SwarmHost spore to be viable again or Protoss who would want to be able to make only photon canon and Voidray and A click when he wants. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 14 2016 10:16 Vanadiel wrote: The fact is, like it or not, wether mech is weak or strong, a lot of people (and from my personal experience Terran as much as Zerg) are just not enjoying playing against mech or even just watching it. As far as I am concern, I do/did not A click into a mech army because I expected it to work, but I do it out of boredness and I just don't want to play that kind of game so I just want to leave quickly. If it works, well that's nice, if it's not working then I just leave the game even if I'm still ahead after the failed attack as I refuse to lose more time with it that I already did. That is the mindset that I have against mech, and I can't extrapolate about how many share my views about it I just know that many of Z/T I have discussed with toward the end of HoTS shared this mindset. So with that in mind, please understand that I (and I believe, a lot of people even among pros LiquidRet has been pretty vocal about it if I remember correctly) are against to any kind of mech buff because I do not really want to promote this very boring play style. The way I see it is that, it's like a Zerg who would want full SwarmHost spore to be viable again or Protoss who would want to be able to make only photon canon and Voidray and A click when he wants. Lots of people similarly don't like Roaches because they're boring units that lead to dumb coin flip "all in" games or dumb a-move games. So based on your logic, we should nerf Roaches? | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3481 Posts
On January 14 2016 09:17 Energizer wrote: Honestly I felt like the adept should just be a unit that requires the twilight council without a stat nerf, thereby forcing the protoss down a particular tech path in order to get them. I think so too, though it might make it too hard for Toss to punish greed. But honestly something like this instead of the -1 damage to +vs light, coupled with removing the ability for Corrosive Bile to deal damage to buildings and maybe removing the Liberator range upgrade would benefit the game greatly. | ||
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
cannons+ free 4 pylons overcharge, sounds good to me for defense overall very good direction so far!!! good job, cant wait for the patch | ||
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Tresher
Germany404 Posts
On January 14 2016 10:16 Vanadiel wrote: The fact is, like it or not, wether mech is weak or strong, a lot of people (and from my personal experience Terran as much as Zerg) are just not enjoying playing against mech or even just watching it. As far as I am concern, I do/did not A click into a mech army because I expected it to work, but I do it out of boredness and I just don't want to play that kind of game so I just want to leave quickly. If it works, well that's nice, if it's not working then I just leave the game even if I'm still ahead after the failed attack as I refuse to lose more time with it that I already did. That is the mindset that I have against mech, and I can't extrapolate about how many share my views about it I just know that many of Z/T I have discussed with toward the end of HoTS shared this mindset. So with that in mind, please understand that I (and I believe, a lot of people even among pros LiquidRet has been pretty vocal about it if I remember correctly) are against to any kind of mech buff because I do not really want to promote this very boring play style. The way I see it is that, it's like a Zerg who would want full SwarmHost spore to be viable again or Protoss who would want to be able to make only photon canon and Voidray and A click when he wants. Well if Blizzard would finally get their asses up it wouldn´t be "boring" as a lot of people call it. Of course Mech was always more defensive than Bio. But this is the biggest problem with this game. It is too fast. So fast that people call a more defensive playstyle automaticlly boring. I didn´t followed BW but Im sure this wasn´t the case there. Another problem is that people automaticlly think Mech is unbeatable if it gets finally the attention it deserves. It wouldn´t be IF THEY WOULD FINALLY DO SOMETHING. This is another problem: They ask for advice and feedback, which is great, but they should know whats best for the game themselves. It´s their own game. Im sure Blizzard knew exactly how the Units should interact and synergise with each other in BW. Just look at Factory Units and how well they synergised back then. It was strong but still beatable. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On January 14 2016 10:25 pure.Wasted wrote: Lots of people similarly don't like Roaches because they're boring units that lead to dumb coin flip "all in" games or dumb a-move games. So based on your logic, we should nerf Roaches? comon dude, don't try to compare roach centric builds to turtle mech. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 14 2016 12:21 Tachion wrote: comon dude, don't try to compare roach centric builds to turtle mech. 1. Who said anything about turtling? You know mech can do other stuff, right? You've seen TvT? 2. Even if I was talking about turtle mech, why shouldn't I make the comparison? His argument is "this isn't fun to watch or play against so it shouldn't be in the game." Well that argument applies to a lot more units than the ones that make up mech, so why is mech being singled out? Lots of people don't like lots of units. Oracles, anyone? Dark Templar much? You don't have to love mech to recognize that Vanadiel's argument doesn't hold up. | ||
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SirPinky
United States525 Posts
On January 14 2016 12:21 Tachion wrote: comon dude, don't try to compare roach centric builds to turtle mech. Mech does not have to be turtle. There are many "aggressive" mech players like HTOMario, Lilikanin or Strelok that really died off after LOTV nerfed mech into oblivion. All these players used harass options for mech and usually transitioned into mech gradually for a larger push. For instance, Mario used to mass WM with tank push frequently in HOTS. Now, with units like the disruptor, this is worthless. Furthermore, there are complications with unit functionality, build time and investment of mech with no real "payout"; the units are more expensive but inferior. The cyclone is garbage (less HP than a marauder) but costs 150/150 and 3 supply. Tank has been nerfed. Combined armory upgrades have been nerfed. Raven has been nerfed. Thor High Impact was removed. And now new Viper abilities such as PB, longer BL range, Ravagers, and adept mobility outclass mech. I think even the immortal shield change was more of a buff to hard countering tanks, than it was a nerf. The all-ins from opposing races has even made mech more risky and less able to defend - like warp prism/adept or indestructible nydus (again weak in small numbers and long build time). It is pretty absurd. And Blizzard questions: Why is mech worse? Really? You did everything in your power to destroy it...congrats | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On January 14 2016 10:16 Vanadiel wrote: The fact is, like it or not, wether mech is weak or strong, a lot of people (and from my personal experience Terran as much as Zerg) are just not enjoying playing against mech or even just watching it. As far as I am concern, I do/did not A click into a mech army because I expected it to work, but I do it out of boredness and I just don't want to play that kind of game so I just want to leave quickly. If it works, well that's nice, if it's not working then I just leave the game even if I'm still ahead after the failed attack as I refuse to lose more time with it that I already did. That is the mindset that I have against mech, and I can't extrapolate about how many share my views about it I just know that many of Z/T I have discussed with toward the end of HoTS shared this mindset. So with that in mind, please understand that I (and I believe, a lot of people even among pros LiquidRet has been pretty vocal about it if I remember correctly) are against to any kind of mech buff because I do not really want to promote this very boring play style. The way I see it is that, it's like a Zerg who would want full SwarmHost spore to be viable again or Protoss who would want to be able to make only photon canon and Voidray and A click when he wants. People that like turtle will turtle regardless of mech. Mech =/= turtle Turtle = Turtle (kind of obvious no?) Also just because its your opinion that mech is JUST turtle, wich wasn't, it doesn't means it has to be like that(or will). Mech created some of the games from the "best games of 20xx" threads, for example. EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/477022-the-best-games-of-2014 1.- Look isn't that mech. 3.- Yep more mech 4.- That looks like mech TvZ, and pre swarm host patch, they exist! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/439620-the-best-games-of-2013 1.- Oh look, another mech game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/401779-the-best-games-of-2012 1.- Look isn't that a me... ok I think you get the idea by now. | ||
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TheoMikkelsen
Denmark196 Posts
I find it very concerning that the current assesment of PvZ balance is that it is protoss favored. There is no statistic or aspect of the gameplay as far as I know that suggest this. If anything it is the opposite. | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States930 Posts
On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote: I like their consideration to remove spore crawler damage to Mutalisks. Thank yeeee Blizzard. I think Mutas are strong in zvz as it is, but now spores won't be so godly versus them will be kind of nice. Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. Idk about this, don't muts already have a place in zvz? The last thing I want is for zvz to turn back into muta vs. muta wars. That destroyed any enjoyment of the matchup for me. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On January 14 2016 04:14 NomaKasd wrote: Completely agree. Mech players were complaining how games went on for longer than any strategy/matchup because of SH but they've been removed and it is the same story. If Blizzard make mech stronger then they will be contradicting there new philosophy in LOTV of trying to make games, more quicker, more fun etc it'll just be another hour game(at least!) to watch or Avilo holding up the WCS again for like 4 hours. Viewers will also be bored out there skull. Completely misinformed. A stronger and actually viable tank will on the contrary encourage more action, because a mech player will be able to move out on the map with a squad of units to control space and secure areas. The reason mech involves turtling now is because tanks are garbage until you get 15 of them and are not at all cost effective in low numbers. This can easily be fixed by removing overkill protection and greatly buffing the damage. | ||
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fenix404
United States305 Posts
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