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p68
100 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:22 BronzeKnee wrote: Well, you can kiss goodbye the 50/50 win rate for PvT too. Adepts were buoying a weak Protoss. The adept and PO are too much of a crutch for bad design. On the bright side, I think it's a necessary change in the short term to help amplify other issues in the match up, which can be changed as well. The game will be better for it in the end. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12600 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:22 BronzeKnee wrote: Well, you can kiss goodbye the 50/50 win rate for PvT too. Adepts were buoying a weak Protoss. I would not speak out against those people. Blizzard should know what they are doing and what the game needs. The problem is, they don't. You can give ideas to Blizzard without them asking, that is okay. Ok, fair enough. It is a consistent argument. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:29 p68 wrote: The adept and PO are too much of a crutch for bad design. On the bright side, I think it's a necessary change in the short term to help amplify other issues in the match up, which can be changed as well. The game will be better for it in the end. This is true, the Adept and PO needed a nerf. It just would have been nice to get a buff for Protoss that would help them mid-game against Zerg and Terran so we don't have to suffer with lousy win rates for awhile. It is just something you learn in grade school. If you take weight off one side of a balanced scale, you have to take weight off the other, or it isn't balanced. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On January 14 2016 06:46 Clonester wrote: Double nerf for Protoss.... the terran dream and needed. At least in the early stage. but will we see a 35% PvZ soon? One can dream | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:38 Maxie wrote: I wonder why they had gotten complaints from korean Z about being weak in ZvP... Because the game was so easy for Zerg when it first came out that they became greedy and complacent. Meanwhile Protoss were having a really hard time and have been working really hard to find new ways to win. This will balance out, honestly. They'll have to control their Lurkers better, for instance, rather than just YOLOing them into the Protoss. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Say Mech is so strategic because it's positionning. When you manage to catch them offguard while they're traveling map : They whine, says mech is not enought mobile, or the map is bad so they force to turtle : So they just want to take abusive position, and the others can't deny them to take this position.... When you use air units like mutas to counter the tank that outrange every zerg units on the ground, they whine Mech isn't great enough vs air, need stronger AA. When you build multiple slow units, come from different angle to clean tank, and minimize AOE : They whine tank dmg isn't high enough, they need stronger tank that deal more dmg and "zone" the others units (meaning they want a sieged tank creates a no man's land around it where every enemy units is crushed). When they turtle, during HOTS, their is no other way than slowly killing them with thousands wave of SH. They want remove SH, cause boring game because of SH, while they're the turtling guys and the Zerg just react to their style, while they can play bio and avoid this... All they really want is build tanks, siege them, then the others can't do nothing so they win the game.... | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:50 Tyrhanius wrote: Mech players are always so funny : Say Mech is so strategic because it's positionning. When you manage to catch them offguard while they're traveling map : They whine, says mech is not enought mobile, or the map is bad so they force to turtle : So they just want to take abusive position, and the others can't deny them to take this position.... When you use air units like mutas to counter the tank that outrange every zerg units, they whine Mech isn't great enough vs air, need stronger AA. When you build multiple slow units, come from different angle to clean tank, and minimize AOE : They whine tank dmg isn't high enough, they need stronger tank that deal more dmg and "zone" the others units (meaning they want a sieged tank creates a no man's land around it where every enemy units is crushed). When they turtle, during HOTS, their is no other way than slowly killing them with thousands wave of SH. They want remove SH, cause boring game because of SH, while they're the turtling guys and the Zerg just react to their style, while they can play bio and avoid this... All they really want is build tanks, siege them, then the others can't do nothing so they win the game.... Golden post. Seriously though. BW: Templar and Reavers shut down an entire tech tree (bio) and T is forced to mech = great game SC2: Vipers and Immortals make it difficult to mass only factory units and T is forced to bio = shit game If you buffed the tank and made AA from the factory stronger there would be literally no way to kill mech. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On January 14 2016 07:52 DinoMight wrote: If you buffed the tank and made AA from the factory stronger there would be literally no way to kill mech. there would be. Players would just need to adapt and don't amove into 20 siege tanks like they currently do. they would have to harass everywhere, force the mech player to spread himself out, then when he's spread out you can start trading. with him, over and over again, keeping his tank count low, meanwhile outexpanding him so you are allowed to trade slightly inefficiently. Then when he's trying to attack he has to keep a part of his army at home and you can with a good surround beat his army. Watch any high level bio vs mech HotS game to see how you are supposed to play vs tanks that actually scare your army away. | ||
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p4ch1n0
Germany38 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:12 Charoisaur wrote: there would be. Players would just need to adapt and don't amove into 20 siege tanks like they currently do. they would have to harass everywhere, force the mech player to spread himself out, then when he's spread out you can start trading. with him, over and over again, keeping his tank count low, meanwhile outexpanding him so you are allowed to trade slightly inefficiently. Then when he's trying to attack he has to keep a part of his army at home and you can with a good surround beat his army. Watch any high level bio vs mech HotS game to see how you are supposed to play vs tanks that actually scare your army away. This is with CURRENT mech units. If mech was buffed to the level that people want, received better AA options, etc. then it would obviously be OP. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:21 DinoMight wrote: This is with CURRENT mech units. If mech was buffed to the level that people want, received better AA options, etc. then it would obviously be OP. Would it be OP? Or would it be finally even with Bio as am option? If anything Bio is the OP thing. It counters everything and has no major weakness. You can say AOE but that doesn't really stop people staying with Bio until they lose or win. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
I think MSC's, should start with 50 energy. A lot of early game all-ins just beat toss straight up, I think 50 energy is correct for photon overcharge but I also think toss should have the ability to use it right away if necessary. Remember, if the first 50 energy is used, the attacking player can just back off or do a run by and wait until it's over and toss has to build 50 energy again which takes awhile. I don't think Zerg is weak at all, I think Zerg's strongest unit is the Lurker and isn't being abused correctly yet. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3561 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:21 DinoMight wrote: This is with CURRENT mech units. If mech was buffed to the level that people want, received better AA options, etc. then it would obviously be OP. current mech is making air units and thus force the mech player to make air units himself and let the game culminate in a 200/200 air battle. hots mech in tvt was similar to how it should be but it only worked in tvt because tanks are garbage in the other matchups. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:21 DinoMight wrote: This is with CURRENT mech units. If mech was buffed to the level that people want, received better AA options, etc. then it would obviously be OP. To be honest is only the people that DON'T want make that go "OMG THEY WOULD NEED SUCH BIG BUFF SO OP TURTLE" Most mech players simply go "well a small change here or there and then go from there would be nice" | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On January 14 2016 08:47 ejozl wrote: Even Blizzard calling people outside Korea foreigners, so sad uh, what? | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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jasonbourne907
17 Posts
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
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