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On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying
I can understand it. With swarmhosts the game dragged on for a while. For zergs it's better when they just instantly win once they have a certain composition.
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On January 14 2016 05:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying I can understand it. With swarmhosts the game dragged on for a while. For zergs it's better when they just instantly win once they have a certain composition.
You are hilarious.
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On January 14 2016 05:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying I can understand it. With swarmhosts the game dragged on for a while. For zergs it's better when they just instantly win once they have a certain composition.
hmmyeah, it's pretty easy to win with that composition when so many terrans want to play with the same composition the entire game. Luckily for zergs the terrans who transition to ghosts, as you pointed out, cant micro them and just get them fungaled and killed by 3 banes
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On January 14 2016 05:54 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:46 Charoisaur wrote:On January 14 2016 05:42 blade55555 wrote:
Maybe because Terrans can counter Ultralisks with ghosts?
1 fungal or 3 baneling hits and all your ghost die and your 120 supply bio army dies to 60 supply of ultras. No fungals or bane hits and your ultras all die and terran loses nothing.
terran loses nothing? snipe has a delay when firing, to oneshot an ultra you need three ghosts. One full energy ghost does that too but it needs so long for it that your ultras will kill your bio army before. Unless you want to say terran should build 45 ghosts to counter 15 ultras it's not true that terran will lose nothing.
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On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying
I know very well where he is comming from. I've been hanging out on these forums from the very beginning. Being "decent" doesn't give you a free ticket to spam your own bullshit expecting everyone to lay down to your knees just because...
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Mech is strong in TvZ right now, you people just suck at going mech.
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On January 14 2016 05:44 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:36 avilo wrote:On January 14 2016 04:53 KeksX wrote:
I personally agree with the "Ignore Mech" notion. At least in regards to the "pure mech" composition. I can't think of a single game where I faced pure mech and thought "Well, that was fun" afterwards. Actually those are the most frustrating games, even if I win. So Even if balanaced, it's neither fun to watch nor to play against mech.
Much rather see mech units being viable in combination with bio play. Add diversity instead of an alternative. In fact, I'd love to see that with all the races. Going "this one composition that will be my unit comp until the very end" is pretty much the only thing that seriously annoys me currently.
Tech switching and having multiple units available instead of just a few that I selected in the early game is the most exciting thing for me.
The reason you've had this experience is because blizzard has always nerfed mech repeatedly and kept mech so bad that it's impossible to ever split up your army because tanks are so weak. What that means is in order to play a mech game you basically have to sit there doing nothing until you have a critical enough mass of units to move on the map...and then when you have that critical mass of "mech" units your opponent now just builds mass air and the "meching" player has to sit there another 20-30 minutes massing their own air units because he can't attack since nothing from the factory can actually shoot up and kill units. THAT is why you've had a terrible experience playing versus mech. If they address those issues (which they won't because they don't want to listen) then mech would be fun to play vs and play with. I'm cynical because blizzard's interest in strategic diversity in SC2 has always come down to making random units faster and nerfing mech repeatedly any time it's iviable to the point it's unplayable or you have to turtle for 30 min to play it which is a catch-22 because no one including myself wants to be forced to sit in our base for 30 min with no aggro options at all. There are two core issues with mech right now: 1) The siege tank does not zone or trade effectively versus any ground units in the game, especially in low numbers. It needs more damage back like it originally had. People including myself have done analysis on this for YEARS. There's literally a teamliquid thread on it from a few weeks ago that blizzard ignores/doesn't acknowledge. If they cared they'd talk about this, yet every time it's brought up they ignore it (purposely)? 2) MECH HAS NO ANTI-AIR FROM THE FACTORY. This shit has been said for years as well and blizzard continuously just ignores it or won't listen. This is the second reason mech games are always idiotic turtle only games because if my opponent starts making mass raven, mass carrier, mass tempest, or broodinfestor or even void rays there's literally nothing cost effective i can make from 10 factories. Widow mines are RNG, cyclones suck and have less health than a marauder because THEY WERE NERFED 5+ TIMES. Thor anti-air is absolute trash as well versus anything that's not a muta or a phoenix. So if i have 15 tanks, hellions, cyclones, mines, and a badass mech army, and i move out on the goddamn map and my opponent decides he wants to build 4 tempest or 4 carriers guess what? His 20 or so supply completely nullifies my 140 supply mech army....and i have to go back to base, sit there and do nothing for half an hour while i spam vikings/liberators/ravens to be able to even play teh game anymore. So...to blizzard please listen: 1) Make the siege tank stronger. Remove the shitty medivac drop that fucks up TvT so badly and is just overall stupid. Make the siege tank a THREAT like the liberator, something people should be afraid to engage, not just literally a move any random unit into and trade effectively like they do now. 2) Make cyclones/mines/thors better at fighting against air units. These units should be SUPER FUCKING STRONG against air so that if i go "mech" with 7+ factories and my opponent decides to be a bitch and build 4 tempests, i can just crank out 7-10 cyclone/thor from my factories instead of have to turtle for another half an hour building 6 starports and massing air units to fight his air when i wanna actually have an action packed game and fight my opponent with ground to ground units. There you go. Will blizzard read this feedback? Maybe. Highly doubt they'll listen, been through this for 4+ years now, they refuse to listen to any feedback in regards to mech. So sorry if i'm not optimistic, blizzard will most likely find some inadvertent way to nerf mech more rather than address it =/ And you give no explanation how this will prevent that "terrible experience playing versus mech" as you call it yourself. Cool, you buff an alternative way to play Mech more aggressively. You also buff the shitass turtlestyle, because you can literally play the exact same way you do now, just with buffed tanks/cyclones/Thors. The 60supply of ground units that you have to accompany your air-deathball currently will just be stronger, so you may get away with 50supply instead and build even more ravens and liberators. I've seen enough streams of you to know that one of your most frequent reasonings for not attacking is that you often say "the only way I can lose this game right now is if I attack and he gets a lucky *X*". How does this change? You just get an even better deathball if you "just buff" parts of the air/ground Mechball. So you have even more reason to "not attack right now, because it's the only way to lose".
They'll just have to buff the other race's capabilities of dealing with turtle mech by deterring death ball fights (see viper's blinding cloud, parasitic bomb, they're actually decent abilities for this purpose). In brood war for example, a meching terran can't sit in his base forever because the zerg/protoss will take the entire map. It'll become a game of resources that can not be won by the terran.
The issue in Sc2 is that you can't have such insane economies as in brood war ("3 base limit for minerals at least") and there's no real "buying time" abilities like dark swarm. Furthermore, a lot of workers are wasted through there being 2 geysers per base instead of 1 necessitating double the amount of workers on gas for the same income. This just further contributes to the inflated Sc2 supply (hydras 2 supply, roaches 2 supply,...).
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On January 14 2016 05:58 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying I can understand it. With swarmhosts the game dragged on for a while. For zergs it's better when they just instantly win once they have a certain composition. hmmyeah, it's pretty easy to win with that composition when so many terrans want to play with the same composition the entire game. Luckily for zergs the terrans who transition to ghosts, as you pointed out, cant micro them and just get them fungaled and killed by 3 banes
it's not only that terran can't micro but the threat of losing the game instantly because of 1 mistake makes terran play very passive because moving out is extremely risky because you can be caught offguard easily. This leads to zerg having mapcontrol and the superior economy. then they can just spam units and win.
There is a reason every terran tries to hit a pre-hive timing to kill the zerg before he gets to ultras.
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On January 14 2016 06:00 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying I know very well where he is comming from. I've been hanging out on these forums from the very beginning. Being "decent" doesn't give you a free ticket to spam your own bullshit expecting everyone to lay down to your knees just because...
Ah yeah sure, it just seemed pretty dumb to claim he was a big defender of bullshit or insta win styles if you remotely knew him, so I assumed you didnt
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On January 14 2016 06:01 crazedrat wrote:
Mech is strong in TvZ right now, you people just suck at going mech.
Generally unless someone prefaces their argument with "in my own games" they're talking about professional games. For the most part your own games are irrelevant because there's always something else you or your opponent could have done better that would have drastically changed the outcome of the game.
The reason Mech generally is said NOT to be viable TvZ is because the Viper provides incredible utility against both Tanks (Blinding Cloud) and air units (Parasitic Bomb).
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On January 14 2016 06:05 DinoMight wrote:
Generally unless someone prefaces their argument with "in my own games" they're talking about professional games. For the most part your own games are irrelevant because there's always something else you or your opponent could have done better that would have drastically changed the outcome of the game..
As if that isnt the case with pro games.
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On January 14 2016 04:32 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style.
@ Blizzard Nerf siege pick up further and buff its attack speed further. SIege pick up shouldn't be used as transportation tool but rather as escape-tool/dodge skillshots.
Agree with this.
Solid update, apart from the mech comments that show how little thought and attention it gets from DK. BRB in 8 months when they locate the areas. ROTFL
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On January 14 2016 06:01 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:44 Big J wrote:On January 14 2016 05:36 avilo wrote:On January 14 2016 04:53 KeksX wrote:
I personally agree with the "Ignore Mech" notion. At least in regards to the "pure mech" composition. I can't think of a single game where I faced pure mech and thought "Well, that was fun" afterwards. Actually those are the most frustrating games, even if I win. So Even if balanaced, it's neither fun to watch nor to play against mech.
Much rather see mech units being viable in combination with bio play. Add diversity instead of an alternative. In fact, I'd love to see that with all the races. Going "this one composition that will be my unit comp until the very end" is pretty much the only thing that seriously annoys me currently.
Tech switching and having multiple units available instead of just a few that I selected in the early game is the most exciting thing for me.
The reason you've had this experience is because blizzard has always nerfed mech repeatedly and kept mech so bad that it's impossible to ever split up your army because tanks are so weak. What that means is in order to play a mech game you basically have to sit there doing nothing until you have a critical enough mass of units to move on the map...and then when you have that critical mass of "mech" units your opponent now just builds mass air and the "meching" player has to sit there another 20-30 minutes massing their own air units because he can't attack since nothing from the factory can actually shoot up and kill units. THAT is why you've had a terrible experience playing versus mech. If they address those issues (which they won't because they don't want to listen) then mech would be fun to play vs and play with. I'm cynical because blizzard's interest in strategic diversity in SC2 has always come down to making random units faster and nerfing mech repeatedly any time it's iviable to the point it's unplayable or you have to turtle for 30 min to play it which is a catch-22 because no one including myself wants to be forced to sit in our base for 30 min with no aggro options at all. There are two core issues with mech right now: 1) The siege tank does not zone or trade effectively versus any ground units in the game, especially in low numbers. It needs more damage back like it originally had. People including myself have done analysis on this for YEARS. There's literally a teamliquid thread on it from a few weeks ago that blizzard ignores/doesn't acknowledge. If they cared they'd talk about this, yet every time it's brought up they ignore it (purposely)? 2) MECH HAS NO ANTI-AIR FROM THE FACTORY. This shit has been said for years as well and blizzard continuously just ignores it or won't listen. This is the second reason mech games are always idiotic turtle only games because if my opponent starts making mass raven, mass carrier, mass tempest, or broodinfestor or even void rays there's literally nothing cost effective i can make from 10 factories. Widow mines are RNG, cyclones suck and have less health than a marauder because THEY WERE NERFED 5+ TIMES. Thor anti-air is absolute trash as well versus anything that's not a muta or a phoenix. So if i have 15 tanks, hellions, cyclones, mines, and a badass mech army, and i move out on the goddamn map and my opponent decides he wants to build 4 tempest or 4 carriers guess what? His 20 or so supply completely nullifies my 140 supply mech army....and i have to go back to base, sit there and do nothing for half an hour while i spam vikings/liberators/ravens to be able to even play teh game anymore. So...to blizzard please listen: 1) Make the siege tank stronger. Remove the shitty medivac drop that fucks up TvT so badly and is just overall stupid. Make the siege tank a THREAT like the liberator, something people should be afraid to engage, not just literally a move any random unit into and trade effectively like they do now. 2) Make cyclones/mines/thors better at fighting against air units. These units should be SUPER FUCKING STRONG against air so that if i go "mech" with 7+ factories and my opponent decides to be a bitch and build 4 tempests, i can just crank out 7-10 cyclone/thor from my factories instead of have to turtle for another half an hour building 6 starports and massing air units to fight his air when i wanna actually have an action packed game and fight my opponent with ground to ground units. There you go. Will blizzard read this feedback? Maybe. Highly doubt they'll listen, been through this for 4+ years now, they refuse to listen to any feedback in regards to mech. So sorry if i'm not optimistic, blizzard will most likely find some inadvertent way to nerf mech more rather than address it =/ And you give no explanation how this will prevent that "terrible experience playing versus mech" as you call it yourself. Cool, you buff an alternative way to play Mech more aggressively. You also buff the shitass turtlestyle, because you can literally play the exact same way you do now, just with buffed tanks/cyclones/Thors. The 60supply of ground units that you have to accompany your air-deathball currently will just be stronger, so you may get away with 50supply instead and build even more ravens and liberators. I've seen enough streams of you to know that one of your most frequent reasonings for not attacking is that you often say "the only way I can lose this game right now is if I attack and he gets a lucky *X*". How does this change? You just get an even better deathball if you "just buff" parts of the air/ground Mechball. So you have even more reason to "not attack right now, because it's the only way to lose". They'll just have to buff the other race's capabilities of dealing with turtle mech by deterring death ball fights (see viper's blinding cloud, parasitic bomb, they're actually decent abilities for this purpose). In brood war for example, a meching terran can't sit in his base forever because the zerg/protoss will take the entire map. It'll become a game of resources that can not be won by the terran. The issue in Sc2 is that you can't have such insane economies as in brood war ("3 base limit for minerals at least") and there's no real "buying time" abilities like dark swarm. Furthermore, a lot of workers are wasted through there being 2 geysers per base instead of 1 necessitating double the amount of workers on gas for the same income. This just further contributes to the inflated Sc2 supply (hydras 2 supply, roaches 2 supply,...).
Yes and that has been said a thousand times about the economy. You can't make Mech like Broodwar based on superstrong siege lines because of the economy. You can't make Mech that superdeathball, because unlike in Broodwar you cannot force a massive economical advantage that allows you to send wave after wave into the meatgrinder or forces the terran to move out if he doesn't want to play 3 base vs 9 base.
What you can do is create the good old deathball Mech of SC2 in which both players turtle to ultimate compositions. What you may be able to do if you go really experimental with the patches is buff the shit out of units like hellions and hellbats and cyclones and maybe apply the one or other nerf to lategame Mech units and thereby make Mech a bio 2.0 style.
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On January 14 2016 06:01 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 05:44 Big J wrote:On January 14 2016 05:36 avilo wrote:On January 14 2016 04:53 KeksX wrote:
I personally agree with the "Ignore Mech" notion. At least in regards to the "pure mech" composition. I can't think of a single game where I faced pure mech and thought "Well, that was fun" afterwards. Actually those are the most frustrating games, even if I win. So Even if balanaced, it's neither fun to watch nor to play against mech.
Much rather see mech units being viable in combination with bio play. Add diversity instead of an alternative. In fact, I'd love to see that with all the races. Going "this one composition that will be my unit comp until the very end" is pretty much the only thing that seriously annoys me currently.
Tech switching and having multiple units available instead of just a few that I selected in the early game is the most exciting thing for me.
The reason you've had this experience is because blizzard has always nerfed mech repeatedly and kept mech so bad that it's impossible to ever split up your army because tanks are so weak. What that means is in order to play a mech game you basically have to sit there doing nothing until you have a critical enough mass of units to move on the map...and then when you have that critical mass of "mech" units your opponent now just builds mass air and the "meching" player has to sit there another 20-30 minutes massing their own air units because he can't attack since nothing from the factory can actually shoot up and kill units. THAT is why you've had a terrible experience playing versus mech. If they address those issues (which they won't because they don't want to listen) then mech would be fun to play vs and play with. I'm cynical because blizzard's interest in strategic diversity in SC2 has always come down to making random units faster and nerfing mech repeatedly any time it's iviable to the point it's unplayable or you have to turtle for 30 min to play it which is a catch-22 because no one including myself wants to be forced to sit in our base for 30 min with no aggro options at all. There are two core issues with mech right now: 1) The siege tank does not zone or trade effectively versus any ground units in the game, especially in low numbers. It needs more damage back like it originally had. People including myself have done analysis on this for YEARS. There's literally a teamliquid thread on it from a few weeks ago that blizzard ignores/doesn't acknowledge. If they cared they'd talk about this, yet every time it's brought up they ignore it (purposely)? 2) MECH HAS NO ANTI-AIR FROM THE FACTORY. This shit has been said for years as well and blizzard continuously just ignores it or won't listen. This is the second reason mech games are always idiotic turtle only games because if my opponent starts making mass raven, mass carrier, mass tempest, or broodinfestor or even void rays there's literally nothing cost effective i can make from 10 factories. Widow mines are RNG, cyclones suck and have less health than a marauder because THEY WERE NERFED 5+ TIMES. Thor anti-air is absolute trash as well versus anything that's not a muta or a phoenix. So if i have 15 tanks, hellions, cyclones, mines, and a badass mech army, and i move out on the goddamn map and my opponent decides he wants to build 4 tempest or 4 carriers guess what? His 20 or so supply completely nullifies my 140 supply mech army....and i have to go back to base, sit there and do nothing for half an hour while i spam vikings/liberators/ravens to be able to even play teh game anymore. So...to blizzard please listen: 1) Make the siege tank stronger. Remove the shitty medivac drop that fucks up TvT so badly and is just overall stupid. Make the siege tank a THREAT like the liberator, something people should be afraid to engage, not just literally a move any random unit into and trade effectively like they do now. 2) Make cyclones/mines/thors better at fighting against air units. These units should be SUPER FUCKING STRONG against air so that if i go "mech" with 7+ factories and my opponent decides to be a bitch and build 4 tempests, i can just crank out 7-10 cyclone/thor from my factories instead of have to turtle for another half an hour building 6 starports and massing air units to fight his air when i wanna actually have an action packed game and fight my opponent with ground to ground units. There you go. Will blizzard read this feedback? Maybe. Highly doubt they'll listen, been through this for 4+ years now, they refuse to listen to any feedback in regards to mech. So sorry if i'm not optimistic, blizzard will most likely find some inadvertent way to nerf mech more rather than address it =/ And you give no explanation how this will prevent that "terrible experience playing versus mech" as you call it yourself. Cool, you buff an alternative way to play Mech more aggressively. You also buff the shitass turtlestyle, because you can literally play the exact same way you do now, just with buffed tanks/cyclones/Thors. The 60supply of ground units that you have to accompany your air-deathball currently will just be stronger, so you may get away with 50supply instead and build even more ravens and liberators. I've seen enough streams of you to know that one of your most frequent reasonings for not attacking is that you often say "the only way I can lose this game right now is if I attack and he gets a lucky *X*". How does this change? You just get an even better deathball if you "just buff" parts of the air/ground Mechball. So you have even more reason to "not attack right now, because it's the only way to lose". They'll just have to buff the other race's capabilities of dealing with turtle mech by deterring death ball fights (see viper's blinding cloud, parasitic bomb, they're actually decent abilities for this purpose). In brood war for example, a meching terran can't sit in his base forever because the zerg/protoss will take the entire map. It'll become a game of resources that can not be won by the terran. The issue in Sc2 is that you can't have such insane economies as in brood war ("3 base limit for minerals at least") and there's no real "buying time" abilities like dark swarm. Furthermore, a lot of workers are wasted through there being 2 geysers per base instead of 1 necessitating double the amount of workers on gas for the same income. This just further contributes to the inflated Sc2 supply (hydras 2 supply, roaches 2 supply,...).
To be honest, this is bullshit, in HotS you needed 4 bases of gas to be able to actually turtle to a win, given that in LotV theres 60% of the resources in eah base, you will need 7.5 (basically 8) bases to be able to reach the same amount of resuserces, or even if not 8, 7 or 6 bases minumum.
LotV already gives a very big deterrent to turtling eco wise, what Dino tought as what will make mech unplayable is in my opinion what gives mechs the best chances.
Not to mention that there is shit tons of counters to mech in TvZ (where the most turtling came from) as in TvT most mech games where pretty agressive (since being a mirror the player with the better economy could get the air army faster wich forced the mech players to be aggressive)
If the economy is such that makes it hard to turtle you can buff the agressive option without it buffing the turtling, mech isn't about turtling, the best mech players actually played a mix of both, players like Gumiho, Bbyong, Flash, Innovation, ForGG and even non-mechers that meched every once in a while like MMA and Maru.
As for the people saying that "real mech" is pure factory mech, please at least learn how mech is before posting, never in SC history (BW, WoL, HotS) has mech ever been pure factory units, the reason why the people that play mech say that is better to buff factory units instead of relying in air units, is that mass air 200/200 air armies are lame as shit.
Mech should be factory units as core (tanks,hellbats,thors,etc) and air (banshee,viking,liberator) and bio (if you think mech players never build bio units you have never player mech vs P, or have no idea how mech early game works ) as support.
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I agree that terrans are struggling vs adept drops in pvt. But why nerf the adept instead of the warp prism? This way you are taking out our only usefull core gateway unit vs terran, and with the collosus nerf I think it will be really hard to win against terran, since any terran who can split decently can dodge disruptors without issue.
They should just increase the warp prism build time and warp in time for units. Then the adept drops are a thing of the past.
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On January 14 2016 06:05 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 06:01 crazedrat wrote:
Mech is strong in TvZ right now, you people just suck at going mech. Generally unless someone prefaces their argument with "in my own games" they're talking about professional games. For the most part your own games are irrelevant because there's always something else you or your opponent could have done better that would have drastically changed the outcome of the game. The reason Mech generally is said NOT to be viable TvZ is because the Viper provides incredible utility against both Tanks (Blinding Cloud) and air units (Parasitic Bomb).
Show me the pro game you're talking about. I don't think you have a pro game in mind. You are thinking of your own games. Even if you have one random pro game your commentary is still ignorant and meaningless.
Mech is cost efficient, this game tends to go long and become a squeeze .... I look at all the buffs to the starport, big buffs to the starport, and vipers are not some magic bullet. Mech is strong now.
Yeah you say "let's ignore the starport". Why would you ignore the starport?
I'm not convinced cyclones are useless either, I don't think you people know what you're doing with them.
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On January 14 2016 06:16 crazedrat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 06:05 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 06:01 crazedrat wrote:
Mech is strong in TvZ right now, you people just suck at going mech. Generally unless someone prefaces their argument with "in my own games" they're talking about professional games. For the most part your own games are irrelevant because there's always something else you or your opponent could have done better that would have drastically changed the outcome of the game. The reason Mech generally is said NOT to be viable TvZ is because the Viper provides incredible utility against both Tanks (Blinding Cloud) and air units (Parasitic Bomb). Show me the pro game you're talking about. I don't think you have a pro game in mind. You are thinking of your own games. Even if you have one random pro game your commentary is still ignorant and meaningless. Mech is cost efficient, this game tends to go long and become a squeeze .... I look at all the buffs to the starport, big buffs to the starport, and vipers are not some magic bullet. Mech is strong now. Yeah you say "let's ignore the starport". Why would you ignore the starport?
Lol I play Protoss mate.. sometimes bio Terran.
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On January 14 2016 06:03 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 06:00 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 05:52 Aocowns wrote:On January 14 2016 05:50 Everlong wrote:On January 14 2016 03:46 blade55555 wrote:
Blizzard just ignore mech, only a select few players want to turtle mech let's please not give it to them as that will ruin the tvz match up if that becomes a strong style. This is probably the most selfish comment I've seen on internet over the last few months. This comment comes from and defines a Zerg player who loves to play the "if I get there, you lose and you deserve it" game. You must have been the first and last one to defend the Broodlord/Infestor bullshit. I'm amazed by the lack of self reflection you are able to pull off here. he's a decent zerg player who stopped playing because of things like SH turtling, just saying I know very well where he is comming from. I've been hanging out on these forums from the very beginning. Being "decent" doesn't give you a free ticket to spam your own bullshit expecting everyone to lay down to your knees just because... Ah yeah sure, it just seemed pretty dumb to claim he was a big defender of bullshit or insta win styles if you remotely knew him, so I assumed you didnt
quitting because of SHs is a pretty clear indicator for being a defender of insta win styles because that was far from being an insta win style. but now with buffed ultras and parasitic bomb he's of course back.
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On January 14 2016 06:19 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 06:16 crazedrat wrote:On January 14 2016 06:05 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 06:01 crazedrat wrote:
Mech is strong in TvZ right now, you people just suck at going mech. Generally unless someone prefaces their argument with "in my own games" they're talking about professional games. For the most part your own games are irrelevant because there's always something else you or your opponent could have done better that would have drastically changed the outcome of the game. The reason Mech generally is said NOT to be viable TvZ is because the Viper provides incredible utility against both Tanks (Blinding Cloud) and air units (Parasitic Bomb). Show me the pro game you're talking about. I don't think you have a pro game in mind. You are thinking of your own games. Even if you have one random pro game your commentary is still ignorant and meaningless. Mech is cost efficient, this game tends to go long and become a squeeze .... I look at all the buffs to the starport, big buffs to the starport, and vipers are not some magic bullet. Mech is strong now. Yeah you say "let's ignore the starport". Why would you ignore the starport? Lol I play Protoss mate.. sometimes bio Terran.
Well then your commentary is pretty useless isn't it mate?
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Make banglings better and make thors a smaller mobile unit... Omg kinda like a golieth! Increasing hellbat speed might be a possibility to. Medivac hellbat would be stronger and tanks would have the pickup support
Seriously adding some relative mobility to mech army would make a huge difference. Golieths wouldnt be direct counter to rouch ravengers but would be able to split and suplement tanks with what they need against muta and be far more effective against rouch (though not to effective). With thors u really are going to have to make liberators and that is part of what disincentivises the comp. design wise you dont want two splash anti air units that are viable. Makes muta so poor.
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