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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 14 2015 01:42 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 01:34 showstealer1829 wrote:On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive. Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2. But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive. I see nothing here but baseless wishes. The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for. More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch. And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal. If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead? So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive? Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself. So agree with this. Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense. It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing. That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch. A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff? The fuck is that hahaahhahahah between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D . I care about people that come from my region, and since Korean starcraft is much more accomplished I care about foreigners trying to catch up and able to compete with Koreans. This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean. They won't. Ever, And if this article is true the chances go from "A snowballs chance in Hell" to "Absolute Zero", since the only way they'll ever play Top Koreans is at Blizzcon, where they'll be 3-0'd so fast it'll make the Lilbow debacle look like the fucking GSL final. I agree with you. I want foreigners to compete with good koreans on a regular basis. WCS must aim to developp a competitive and rewarding atmosphere for foreigners as well as koreans. Not be a free-pass to blizzcon. What I meant with the analogy with Ice Hockey, is that in Europe we don't have structures and investments enough to even have a decent league. Every good european has to go in NHL. I don't want that to happen in Starcraft since the game is designed to be attractive to every player in every continent. Thinking that koreans are better because they are koreans is straight bullshit, or even racism in a way (genetic, superior culture, whatever). They are better because e-sport is a thing there, structures are strong and the practice environnement is the best (ladder, houses, coaches, regular leagues and huge fanbase).
About that hockey. that's not true. Players go to NHL because there's more money, but they grow in Europe. This is the environment you are talking about and that's what we want. Our foreigner stars being picked by KeSPA teams so we can see them in PL. And that's what not happening and won't ever happen
BTW European hockey is actually pretty good, but since you are Belgian I can see why you think it's not  E.g. Euro Hockey Tour is usually pretty good show 
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On December 13 2015 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Agreed. I think claiming sc2 had better viewers then due to foreigners is a stretch. Back then it was a brand new game after a super long wait and like you said the now big games hadn't kicked off. I think League would have only been in season 1 in 2010.
The "big games" hadn't kicked off? First off, those "big" games didn't start big at all, as far as esports was concerned. League was not some highly anticipated game that people were idling by, waiting to make a name for themselves in esports. In fact, League started small and had to prove itself, while SC already had an established fanbase. And there's also the power of the Blizzard IP in and of itself, where they never fail to sell at least 1 million copies within a few days of launch, regardless of the IP.
One could also argue that SC2 had a distinct advantage: having somewhat of an esports establishment already (just Korea). Yet, despite all this, SC2 has seen nothing but decline. LoL recently had *36 million viewers* for the World Championship Finals, and people here are raving about how great 100k was for Blizzcon (Hell, TSL3 finals, Naniwa vs Thorzain, had 63k viewers. A foreigner finals, less than a year after the game launched)! That's *0.3%* of LoL viewers. Not even a single percentage point. Even if we concede that SC2 could never be as popular as LoL (free-to-play, more accessible) would you expect such a massive discrepancy?
Daily reminder to everyone reading this: Korean players have only gotten better over time and participate more-and-more in foreign tournaments. Regardless of any assumptions you make, this has not resulted in the growth of SC2 viewership. While other games grow, SC2 declines. Skill-alone is not sufficient.
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On December 14 2015 01:51 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 01:42 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 01:34 showstealer1829 wrote:On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive. Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2. But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive. I see nothing here but baseless wishes. The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for. More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch. And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal. If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead? So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive? Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself. So agree with this. Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense. It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing. That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch. A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff? The fuck is that hahaahhahahah between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D . I care about people that come from my region, and since Korean starcraft is much more accomplished I care about foreigners trying to catch up and able to compete with Koreans. This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean. They won't. Ever, And if this article is true the chances go from "A snowballs chance in Hell" to "Absolute Zero", since the only way they'll ever play Top Koreans is at Blizzcon, where they'll be 3-0'd so fast it'll make the Lilbow debacle look like the fucking GSL final. I agree with you. I want foreigners to compete with good koreans on a regular basis. WCS must aim to developp a competitive and rewarding atmosphere for foreigners as well as koreans. Not be a free-pass to blizzcon. What I meant with the analogy with Ice Hockey, is that in Europe we don't have structures and investments enough to even have a decent league. Every good european has to go in NHL. I don't want that to happen in Starcraft since the game is designed to be attractive to every player in every continent. Thinking that koreans are better because they are koreans is straight bullshit, or even racism in a way (genetic, superior culture, whatever). They are better because e-sport is a thing there, structures are strong and the practice environnement is the best (ladder, houses, coaches, regular leagues and huge fanbase). About that hockey. that's not true. Players go to NHL because there's more money, but they grow in Europe. This is the environment you are talking about and that's what we want. Our foreigner stars being picked by KeSPA teams so we can see them in PL. And that's what not happening and won't ever happen BTW European hockey is actually pretty good, but since you are Belgian I can see why you think it's not E.g. Euro Hockey Tour is usually pretty good show
We are more into Grass Hockey I guess ^_^
Don't meant to show disrespect to people invested in the growth of hockey in Europe. What I mean is that the solution is not only sending the foreigners to Kespa. But more like investing a lot for the competition outside Korea to be attractive and for player to be able to make a living out of it.
In a way, check football. European leagues are the big thing, but other countries don't give up. US does massive investment in MSL since they understood nothing replace domestic competition and good formation of youngsters to catch up.
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I would have loved to see a region lock wcs next year if done right.
But no koreans at weekend tournaments? No foreign wcs anymore?
This has to be a joke, it doesn't address any of the problems we have in sc2 tbh.
A region locked wcs would have been perfect because wcs can relatively easily work on building foreign stars. They can make videos or whatever content is needed to cheer for foreigners.
A dreamhack or IEM where other games are there too will simply not have the same appeal at all.
It isn't even a regular thing like wcs would be. I cannot believe Catz would be happy with this (which i think he said he kinda is) which is why i cannt believe this is the (complete) truth.
Other than that i am personally not interested in watching IEM or Dreamhack tournaments without koreans, so yeah...
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 14 2015 01:53 p68 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Agreed. I think claiming sc2 had better viewers then due to foreigners is a stretch. Back then it was a brand new game after a super long wait and like you said the now big games hadn't kicked off. I think League would have only been in season 1 in 2010. The "big games" hadn't kicked off? First off, those "big" games didn't start big at all, as far as esports was concerned. League was not some highly anticipated game that people were idling by, waiting to make a name for themselves in esports. In fact, League started small and had to prove itself, while SC already had an established fanbase. And there's also the power of the Blizzard IP in and of itself, where they never fail to sell at least 1 million copies within a few days of launch, regardless of the IP. One could also argue that SC2 had a distinct advantage: having somewhat of an esports establishment already (just Korea). Yet, despite all this, SC2 has seen nothing but decline. LoL recently had *36 million viewers* for the World Championship Finals, and people here are raving about how great 100k was for Blizzcon ( Hell, TSL3 finals, Naniwa vs Thorzain, had 63k viewers. A foreigner finals, less than a year after the game launched)! That's *0.3%* of LoL viewers. Not even a single percentage point. Even if we concede that SC2 could never be as popular as LoL (free-to-play, more accessible) would you expect such a massive discrepancy? Daily reminder to everyone reading this: Korean players have only gotten better over time and participate more-and-more in foreign tournaments. Regardless of any assumptions you make, this has not resulted in the growth of SC2 viewership. While other games grow, SC2 declines. Skill-alone is not sufficient.
Daily remainder - not that many KeSPA players travel abroad. So that's not true. Making constant comparison to LoL, DotA or CS is just stupid. SC2 had only idealized advantage, Korea never fully accepted SC2 as BW replacement and since it was(and still is) always fighting with BW it had never the success it was believed it would have(that's why the numbers were high and started to drop, people were expecting more than what they received).
On December 14 2015 02:03 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 01:51 deacon.frost wrote:On December 14 2015 01:42 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 01:34 showstealer1829 wrote:On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive. Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2. But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive. I see nothing here but baseless wishes. The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for. More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch. And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal. If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead? So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive? Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself. So agree with this. Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense. It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing. That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch. A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff? The fuck is that hahaahhahahah between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D . I care about people that come from my region, and since Korean starcraft is much more accomplished I care about foreigners trying to catch up and able to compete with Koreans. This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean. They won't. Ever, And if this article is true the chances go from "A snowballs chance in Hell" to "Absolute Zero", since the only way they'll ever play Top Koreans is at Blizzcon, where they'll be 3-0'd so fast it'll make the Lilbow debacle look like the fucking GSL final. I agree with you. I want foreigners to compete with good koreans on a regular basis. WCS must aim to developp a competitive and rewarding atmosphere for foreigners as well as koreans. Not be a free-pass to blizzcon. What I meant with the analogy with Ice Hockey, is that in Europe we don't have structures and investments enough to even have a decent league. Every good european has to go in NHL. I don't want that to happen in Starcraft since the game is designed to be attractive to every player in every continent. Thinking that koreans are better because they are koreans is straight bullshit, or even racism in a way (genetic, superior culture, whatever). They are better because e-sport is a thing there, structures are strong and the practice environnement is the best (ladder, houses, coaches, regular leagues and huge fanbase). About that hockey. that's not true. Players go to NHL because there's more money, but they grow in Europe. This is the environment you are talking about and that's what we want. Our foreigner stars being picked by KeSPA teams so we can see them in PL. And that's what not happening and won't ever happen BTW European hockey is actually pretty good, but since you are Belgian I can see why you think it's not E.g. Euro Hockey Tour is usually pretty good show We are more into Grass Hockey I guess ^_^ Don't meant to show disrespect to people invested in the growth of hockey in Europe. What I mean is that the solution is not only sending the foreigners to Kespa. But more like investing a lot for the competition outside Korea to be attractive and for player to be able to make a living out of it. In a way, check football. European leagues are the big thing, but other countries don't give up. US does massive investment in MSL since they understood nothing replace domestic competition and good formation of youngsters to catch up.
I agree. Without many teams nurturing(investing into) players we wouldn't have any big names from Europe in NHL.
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On December 14 2015 01:33 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 01:30 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 14 2015 01:26 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 01:23 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive. Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2. But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive. I see nothing here but baseless wishes. The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for. More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch. And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal. If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead? So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive? Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself. So agree with this. Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense. It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing. That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch. A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff? The fuck is that hahaahhahahah between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean. Nuff said. Your white hood is showing. Fuck off. I am white yes. Are you aware that we have every etchnic origin in Belgium but we are all Belgians? Not white, black or blue or red. Stop typing words on your keyboard. You have some serious anger problems man. Get some help with that. Yes I was angry. I can't stand reading that kind of racism.
And rightfully so. You're not the one that needs help imo.
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On December 14 2015 01:53 p68 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2015 06:51 Phredxor wrote:
Agreed. I think claiming sc2 had better viewers then due to foreigners is a stretch. Back then it was a brand new game after a super long wait and like you said the now big games hadn't kicked off. I think League would have only been in season 1 in 2010. The "big games" hadn't kicked off? First off, those "big" games didn't start big at all, as far as esports was concerned. League was not some highly anticipated game that people were idling by, waiting to make a name for themselves in esports. In fact, League started small and had to prove itself, while SC already had an established fanbase. And there's also the power of the Blizzard IP in and of itself, where they never fail to sell at least 1 million copies within a few days of launch, regardless of the IP. One could also argue that SC2 had a distinct advantage: having somewhat of an esports establishment already (just Korea). Yet, despite all this, SC2 has seen nothing but decline. LoL recently had *36 million viewers* for the World Championship Finals, and people here are raving about how great 100k was for Blizzcon ( Hell, TSL3 finals, Naniwa vs Thorzain, had 63k viewers. A foreigner finals, less than a year after the game launched)! That's *0.3%* of LoL viewers. Not even a single percentage point. Even if we concede that SC2 could never be as popular as LoL (free-to-play, more accessible) would you expect such a massive discrepancy? Daily reminder to everyone reading this: Korean players have only gotten better over time and participate more-and-more in foreign tournaments. Regardless of any assumptions you make, this has not resulted in the growth of SC2 viewership. While other games grow, SC2 declines. Skill-alone is not sufficient.
Please don't compare numbers if you don't know what they mean.
If you want to compare Twitch peak then that's fine but use the right figures.
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I haven't caught up with the whole thing but coming from a bw background, I never understood why in Sc2 people cared more about nationality than skill. I want to see the best plays and korean give that, get over it.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 14 2015 02:14 sM.Zik wrote:
I haven't caught up with the whole thing but coming from a bw background, I never understood why in Sc2 people cared more about nationality than skill. I want to see the best plays and korean give that, get over it.
Some people in SC2 don't get that either
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There still is GSL and SSL. Not having koreans in wcs would be totally fine.
Not having koreans at weekend tournaments though divides the scenes unnecessarily
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On December 14 2015 02:14 sM.Zik wrote:
I haven't caught up with the whole thing but coming from a bw background, I never understood why in Sc2 people cared more about nationality than skill. I want to see the best plays and korean give that, get over it.
It is not only nationality. It is about developping the game as a whole. If you want starcraft to be a niche game just give up on improving the foreign scene.
People call it e-sport. Start comparing with actual sports. Only investments, competition, salaries and the crowd decide what make the succes of a sport.
I like high level play. But I refuse to accept that only koreans are capable of delivering such good games. As in actual sport, I don't watch the world cup to see huge plays but because I love this sport and it is even better if my team goes far.
Not that I don't enjoy watching players getting huge and showing incredible display. At least the competition is fair.
Developping e-sport. THIS is the main point.
A lot of people don't even play the game, let them cheer for whoever they want and stop telling them what they should enjoy or not.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 14 2015 02:25 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 02:14 sM.Zik wrote:
I haven't caught up with the whole thing but coming from a bw background, I never understood why in Sc2 people cared more about nationality than skill. I want to see the best plays and korean give that, get over it. It is not only nationality. It is about developping the game as a whole. If you want starcraft to be a niche game just give up on improving the foreign scene. People call it e-sport. Start comparing with actual sports. Only investments, competition, salaries and the crowd decide what make the succes of a sport. I like high level play. But I refuse to accept that only koreans are capable of delivering such good games. As in actual sport, I don't watch the world cup to see huge plays but because I love this sport and it is even better if my team goes far. Not that I don't enjoy watching players getting huge and showing incredible display. At least the competition is fair. Developping e-sport. THIS is the main point. A lot of people don't even play the game, let them cheer for whoever they want and stop telling them what they should enjoy or not.
Yeah, that's why Blizzard created the WCS - charity tournament for foreigners(RO64 = 2 000 USD, no Koreans allowed). If this is true I cannot get ANY interesting Korean player into Europe because they cannot attend tournaments here, because these tournaments are now charity for foreigners. Great. Now imagine how many people here love some Korean player and want to see them(and I'd like to remind you how much KeSPA players travel abroad) and now don't have even the slightest chance. I am from Europe, it is much cheaper and easier for me to get to some random EU tournament. That's why NA fans wanted IEM in their region. Now the slight chance of random Maru appearing there is not there. There's no chance.
Let me cheer for whoever I want and let me have the hope of seeing them outside of Korea. No, this is a big FU from Blizzard to me...
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On December 14 2015 02:25 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 02:14 sM.Zik wrote:
I haven't caught up with the whole thing but coming from a bw background, I never understood why in Sc2 people cared more about nationality than skill. I want to see the best plays and korean give that, get over it. I like high level play. But I refuse to accept that only koreans are capable of delivering such good games.
Then you're delusional
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I don't understand why people are saying that they can't relate to players because they don't speak English. Really? This doesn't stop millions of people idolising the likes of Lionel Messi, because of his skill and work-rate.
How does this not translate to the likes of Maru and INnoVation? They both leave spectators in awe of their skills and prowess in-game - just like Messi. They can do things most of us can only dream of in-game - but we can't be fans of them or relate to them because they don't speak the same language?
Frankly, I'm at a loss for words.
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On December 14 2015 03:06 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2015 02:25 Ppjack wrote:On December 14 2015 02:14 sM.Zik wrote:
I haven't caught up with the whole thing but coming from a bw background, I never understood why in Sc2 people cared more about nationality than skill. I want to see the best plays and korean give that, get over it. It is not only nationality. It is about developping the game as a whole. If you want starcraft to be a niche game just give up on improving the foreign scene. People call it e-sport. Start comparing with actual sports. Only investments, competition, salaries and the crowd decide what make the succes of a sport. I like high level play. But I refuse to accept that only koreans are capable of delivering such good games. As in actual sport, I don't watch the world cup to see huge plays but because I love this sport and it is even better if my team goes far. Not that I don't enjoy watching players getting huge and showing incredible display. At least the competition is fair. Developping e-sport. THIS is the main point. A lot of people don't even play the game, let them cheer for whoever they want and stop telling them what they should enjoy or not. Yeah, that's why Blizzard created the WCS - charity tournament for foreigners(RO64 = 2 000 USD, no Koreans allowed). If this is true I cannot get ANY interesting Korean player into Europe because they cannot attend tournaments here, because these tournaments are now charity for foreigners. Great. Now imagine how many people here love some Korean player and want to see them(and I'd like to remind you how much KeSPA players travel abroad) and now don't have even the slightest chance. I am from Europe, it is much cheaper and easier for me to get to some random EU tournament. That's why NA fans wanted IEM in their region. Now the slight chance of random Maru appearing there is not there. There's no chance. Let me cheer for whoever I want and let me have the hope of seeing them outside of Korea. No, this is a big FU from Blizzard to me...
Yes and I agree with you !!
Blizzard totally miss the point.
When I say start investing in foreign scene, there are 2 points: an incentitive for foreign players to go full time, and be rewarded for it so it is not a gambling, or a forced retirement after few poor results. But the second point should be obviously to raise the level of the foreign scene as a whole.
The only viable option is for foreigners to compete with good koreans on a regular basis. Beside raising the level of the local ladder and the practice environnement offered by both the competitors and the support of the teams/organisations.
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On December 14 2015 03:12 DSK wrote:
I don't understand why people are saying that they can't relate to players because they don't speak English. Really? This doesn't stop millions of people idolising the likes of Lionel Messi, because of his skill and work-rate.
Frankly, I'm at a loss for words.
And franckly, who really said that ?
The main behavior on this forum is to constantly bash foreigners as if it was hopeless to see them improve.
I support them, but obviously I am following the korean competition and cheer for my favourite players over there.
I just don't think it is a fatality and even less the cultural/genetic bullshit over korean being naturally good at computer games.
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holy shit blizzard how much can you do wrong? it amazes me how you can still take the worst decisions possible given the knowledge of the past years. ggwp, will suck for viewer numbers of dh and iem might make them consider once again to drop sc2 which i wouldn't be even mad about it
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On December 14 2015 03:29 Undead1993 wrote:
holy shit blizzard how much can you do wrong? it amazes me how you can still take the worst decisions possible given the knowledge of the past years. ggwp, will suck for viewer numbers of dh and iem might make them consider once again to drop sc2 which i wouldn't be even mad about it
More like ESL doesn't want WCS anymore and a replacement seems impossible.
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Whats funny is that they are better at other peoples games (destiny) and making decision for them than their own.
Who in their right mind hires bizzard to balance their game let alone control it?
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Koreans aren't naturally good at computer games. They DO have the right work ethic and a now established advantage due to a previously developed eSports scene (team houses, coaches, very strong competition,...).
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EPT
