• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:20
CET 11:20
KST 19:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ What are former legends up to these days? BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Has Anyone Tried Kamagra Chewable for ED? 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1210 users

Blizzard Reportedly Radically Overhauling WCS - Page 29

Forum Index > SC2 General
827 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 42 Next All
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
December 13 2015 12:47 GMT
#561
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

Show nested quote +
The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

Show nested quote +
And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.
Thorakh
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands1788 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 14:52:39
December 13 2015 14:50 GMT
#562
What makes tournaments interesting to me as a casual viewer (as in I watch tournaments irregularly and no Korean leagues) is the story of Foreigner vs Korean. When I watch an all-foreigner tournament, it leaves me with a feeling that the winner didn't really deserve it because he didn't play Koreans, which in turn makes me less likely to watch all-foreigner tournaments.

Besides, wouldn't this create a much bigger problem in the form of foreigners not being challenged as much, getting even further behind in skill and then getting completely rolled at Blizzcon?
Fliparoni
Profile Joined February 2012
205 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 14:53:54
December 13 2015 14:53 GMT
#563
If this is actually true, then catering to fair weather fans who almost certainly won't be around a few years down the line even if every single tourney has a lilly white face in every seat is stupid IMO.

This move is highly disrespectful and a slap in the face to all the real and true hardworking sc2 pros out there (Korean and non Korean alike), the loyal, dedicated and TRUE fans of this game that truly love this game for what it is, and to anyone that has any sense of competition that is honorable, true, fair and deserved.
ramask2
Profile Joined June 2011
Thailand1024 Posts
December 13 2015 15:03 GMT
#564
Leaving aside the foreigner/Korean drama for now, it seems that this "WCS Circuit" will consist of events held by IEM, Dreamhack and Redbull. Does this mean that we'll no longer have the WCS seasons at all? You know the ones produced by ESL usually? Will we only have weekend tournaments left in foreigner land?

If that is the case, reading between the lines, could this just be the case of Blizzard not wanting to put any more money into WCS? However, since those WCS seasons are the main source of WCS points for foreigners, they need to make sure to still have tournaments set aside for them. Is that why they're making the weekend tournaments adopt a region lock policy?

I hope I'm wrong. We'll know more when Blizzard clarify what this "WCS Circuit" actually is.
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3174 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 15:15:23
December 13 2015 15:14 GMT
#565
On December 14 2015 00:03 ramask2 wrote:
Leaving aside the foreigner/Korean drama for now, it seems that this "WCS Circuit" will consist of events held by IEM, Dreamhack and Redbull. Does this mean that we'll no longer have the WCS seasons at all? You know the ones produced by ESL usually? Will we only have weekend tournaments left in foreigner land?

If that is the case, reading between the lines, could this just be the case of Blizzard not wanting to put any more money into WCS? However, since those WCS seasons are the main source of WCS points for foreigners, they need to make sure to still have tournaments set aside for them. Is that why they're making the weekend tournaments adopt a region lock policy?

I hope I'm wrong. We'll know more when Blizzard clarify what this "WCS Circuit" actually is.


I thought the article was clear that there will be no WCS tournament. Only the weekend tournaments you just mentioned for foreigners. Basically those tournaments that gets attended by CS:GO / LoL / DotA will have only foreign SC.

GSL / SSL will be for Koreans only. It sucks hard but this is it...

As for the reason why there won't be a WCS, I guess the answer lines with the other rumor that was around. That ESL does not want to produce any WCS tournament anymore.
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
December 13 2015 15:21 GMT
#566
with WCS Circuit, I think better players get more money while bad player get less money.

Does it mean EU players can't attend US Circuits and inverted?
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
showstealer1829
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Australia3123 Posts
December 13 2015 15:30 GMT
#567
On December 14 2015 00:21 Dingodile wrote:
with WCS Circuit, I think better players get more money while bad player get less money.

Does it mean EU players can't attend US Circuits and inverted?


Scratch "the better players get more money while bad players get less money line" Reverse the better and bad
There is no understanding. There is only Choya. Choya is the way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life. Has is the Light in the Protoss Dark and Nightmare is his chosen Acolyte
ramask2
Profile Joined June 2011
Thailand1024 Posts
December 13 2015 15:51 GMT
#568
On December 14 2015 00:14 WrathSCII wrote:
As for the reason why there won't be a WCS, I guess the answer lines with the other rumor that was around. That ESL does not want to produce any WCS tournament anymore.


If that's true, it is a real shame. So if assuming that there's no increase in the frequency of the weekend tournaments, we're actually getting less tournaments than last year. That is surely bad for the foreign scene, right?
HellHound
Profile Joined September 2014
Bulgaria5962 Posts
December 13 2015 15:58 GMT
#569
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D
Classic GosoO |sOs| Everyone has to give in, let Life win | Zest Is The Best | Roach Cultist | I recognize the might and wisdom of my Otherworldly overlord | Air vs Air 200/200 SC2 is best SC2 | PRIME has been robbed | Fuck prime go ST | ROACH ROACH ROACH
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
December 13 2015 16:07 GMT
#570
If you want global e-sports to be popular, you need to have a person or team that you can root for. Nothing inspires fandom more than knowing the person is similar to you. They come from the same place, they speak your language, they like similar things to you. These are the people you can get behind. The vast majority of e-sports watchers can't do that in a tournament that's all Koreans.

Let me begin by stating the obvious: people on this forum aren't going to like this argument because people on this forum are a vocal minority of diehard fans. A lot of people here got up at 3am to watch the GSL (myself included), and even more before that used janky streaming clients and dubbed commentary to watch Korean BW when most of us had forgotten Starcraft was even a thing and moved on to other games. By being constantly invested in a scene that was so exclusively Korean for so long, you have no problems identifying with the Korean players and exclusively Korean tournaments. You are the minority. You are the diehard. You are not the audience that Blizzard wants to tap because you'll be there anyway.

Today, I don't give a shit about my hometown's (Houston) professional sports teams, but I did when I was a kid. You know why? Because Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe lived in my neighborhood, the former just a few houses down. They were people that I knew where they were from, I got to meet them, and I felt great cheering for them even if they weren't the best players on the team. Then they retired and I gradually stopped caring about the Rockets. Then when the Texans joined the NFL as an expansion team, David Carr moved in one neighborhood over and my fanboy started up again. I had a guy I could cheer for even if he wasn't the best quarterback in the league. Then he moved on, the Texans kept sucking without him and I stopped caring.

Fans are stronger and more dedicated when they have someone they can relate to to cheer for. If every SC2 tournament is won by whatever Korean could afford to fly out there (which the vast majority of them are with a few exceptions), then no one gives a shit because they never see their hometown heroes. They're always caught further down the bracket and it's hard to tell who's good and who isn't because they keep losing so early. You can't build a fanbase on top 32s (or even top 8s really). We need to have international players winning more tournaments to cultivate more fanbases and bring in more people. If that means keeping the Koreans in Korea, so be it.

If you want to watch the best in the world, watch the GSL or Proleague. If you want to watch the best in your region, watch the WCS. It doesn't matter if whatever Korean qualifies just roflstomps the rest of the world come Blizzcon, at least fans will have people that represent them playing.
maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
December 13 2015 16:10 GMT
#571
On December 14 2015 00:14 WrathSCII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 00:03 ramask2 wrote:
Leaving aside the foreigner/Korean drama for now, it seems that this "WCS Circuit" will consist of events held by IEM, Dreamhack and Redbull. Does this mean that we'll no longer have the WCS seasons at all? You know the ones produced by ESL usually? Will we only have weekend tournaments left in foreigner land?

If that is the case, reading between the lines, could this just be the case of Blizzard not wanting to put any more money into WCS? However, since those WCS seasons are the main source of WCS points for foreigners, they need to make sure to still have tournaments set aside for them. Is that why they're making the weekend tournaments adopt a region lock policy?

I hope I'm wrong. We'll know more when Blizzard clarify what this "WCS Circuit" actually is.


I thought the article was clear that there will be no WCS tournament.


Blizzard might as well admit that they themselves don't see any point in SC2 esports anymore, at least not from a profitability perspective.

Too bad though. WCS brought us some of the best games and casters in the scene. Makes me wonder what'll happen with Apollo & co. Surely they can't make a living of casting four tournaments a year?

Unrelated: seems that RedEye's timing to jump ship was impeccable.
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
December 13 2015 16:12 GMT
#572
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


Isn't that the point all the anti-Korean posters are trying to make?

White guys don't get the money and attention over flashy mechanics of Maru-level Koreans. It isn't fair.
I can't relate to the Korean guy because he doesn't speak English well.
The Korean culture has no personality and I can't relate so I don't watch.
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
December 13 2015 16:14 GMT
#573
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


White guy? your comment is just ordinary racism.
I care about people that come from my region, and since Korean starcraft is much more accomplished I care about foreigners trying to catch up and able to compete with Koreans. This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.
When I cheer for Maru it is because I love him, his playstyle and I play terran.

When your favorite football club plays against a giant of football, you will cheer for your club.
Still if you like football as a sport you will enjoy watching high level matches. And probably have a favourite team that is not from your region.

If it appeared that Sweden would rule the starcraft world, would you say fuck these white guys that does not let asians catch up?

What the fuck is your comment. Really
<;o)
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 16:24:45
December 13 2015 16:17 GMT
#574
On December 14 2015 01:12 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


Isn't that the point all the anti-Korean posters are trying to make?

White guys don't get the money and attention over flashy mechanics of Maru-level Koreans. It isn't fair.
I can't relate to the Korean guy because he doesn't speak English well.
The Korean culture has no personality and I can't relate so I don't watch.



Yeah true, I don't spit on foreigners and am happy when few of them reach a huge level.
I must be anti-koreans.
Or maybe I don't like starcraft since foreigners are not able to deliver good games.

edit: I will add that if you only care about korean starcraft, no prob. They will just do fine for a long time there. When foreigners will stop to care about the game because fucks like you are too disrespectful and they cannot make a living of the game anymore, competition will only occur in Korea.
You know, Canada is the best at Ice Hockey too. Even at Curling. As a european I don't care about hockey and if it happened I would be a god at it I would have to go play in NHL.
Do you want the same to happen to Starcraft? NA almost already gave up on this game. If Europe follows will you be happy to eventually see only korean competition?

No wonder CS:GO is doing 2000 times better
<;o)
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
December 13 2015 16:23 GMT
#575
On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.



Nuff said.
Your white hood is showing.
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
December 13 2015 16:26 GMT
#576
On December 14 2015 01:23 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.



Nuff said.
Your white hood is showing.


Fuck off.
I am white yes. Are you aware that we have every etchnic origin in Belgium but we are all Belgians? Not white, black or blue or red.
Stop typing words on your keyboard.
<;o)
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
December 13 2015 16:30 GMT
#577
On December 14 2015 01:26 Ppjack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 01:23 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.



Nuff said.
Your white hood is showing.


Fuck off.
I am white yes. Are you aware that we have every etchnic origin in Belgium but we are all Belgians? Not white, black or blue or red.
Stop typing words on your keyboard.


You have some serious anger problems man.
Get some help with that.
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
December 13 2015 16:33 GMT
#578
On December 14 2015 01:30 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 01:26 Ppjack wrote:
On December 14 2015 01:23 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D


This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.



Nuff said.
Your white hood is showing.


Fuck off.
I am white yes. Are you aware that we have every etchnic origin in Belgium but we are all Belgians? Not white, black or blue or red.
Stop typing words on your keyboard.


You have some serious anger problems man.
Get some help with that.


Yes I was angry. I can't stand reading that kind of racism.
<;o)
showstealer1829
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Australia3123 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 16:34:38
December 13 2015 16:34 GMT
#579
On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D

.
I care about people that come from my region, and since Korean starcraft is much more accomplished I care about foreigners trying to catch up and able to compete with Koreans. This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.



They won't. Ever, And if this article is true the chances go from "A snowballs chance in Hell" to "Absolute Zero", since the only way they'll ever play Top Koreans is at Blizzcon, where they'll be 3-0'd so fast it'll make the Lilbow debacle look like the fucking GSL final.

There is no understanding. There is only Choya. Choya is the way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life. Has is the Light in the Protoss Dark and Nightmare is his chosen Acolyte
Ppjack
Profile Joined March 2015
Belgium489 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-13 16:44:26
December 13 2015 16:42 GMT
#580
On December 14 2015 01:34 showstealer1829 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2015 01:14 Ppjack wrote:
On December 14 2015 00:58 HellHound wrote:
On December 13 2015 21:47 MaCRo.gg wrote:
On December 13 2015 20:17 pure.Wasted wrote:
On December 13 2015 19:37 xyzz wrote:
Baffling. The result will be completely opposite if the changes are as rumoured. If foreigners compete with other foreigners, earning serious money and getting success, the foreigner scene will stop shrinking. In fact it will thrive.


Welcome to 2015, the year that 59/64 NA/EU seats belonged to foreigners, where placing in the Ro64 meant a guaranteed $2,000. And what was the result of this promised land? The disparity in skill between Koreans and foreigners has never been greater in the history of SC2.

But magically in 2016 everything will change. Foreigners aren't going to have to push themselves as hard because they won't be facing Koreans, they're not going to have as many opportunities to win over fans because the WCS events are cut, it's very possible that the $2K award for top 64 finish will be nixed... but somehow, the foreign scene is going to thrive.

I see nothing here but baseless wishes.

The couple hardcore fans of korean players who refuse to tune in will be replaced by a large mass of others who now have some familiar community celebrities to cheer for.


More wishes. Total Biscuit has put a lot of work into organizing grass roots foreign events, and he's gone on record multiple times saying the viewership spike for all-foreign events is a complete fantasy. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody shows up to watch.

And just so we're clear, to answer your question in part, if the foreign scene would die; no, I wouldn't tune in to korean SC2. The game would be dead, and that has nothing to do with being a 'fair weather fan'. That's called being pretty normal.


If the foreign scene dies, that means SC2 is dead?

So Brood War, the esport that created esports, was... what? Never even alive?

Get a clue. You're embarrassing yourself.


So agree with this.

Either they think "grassroots" events will thrive despite their lack of previous viewership or spout xenophobic nonsense.
It boggles my mind that somehow they think that pulling in casual viewers that only care about the narrative while alienating hardcore viewers who care about the quality of the game is a good thing.

That is the difference between players and viewers. Viewers watch for the narrative aka xenophobia and racism, while players watch for the best games between the best players that worked the hardest. I'll keep being a player of sc2, I'll still be here after all the viewers move on to their next bigoted itch.

A casual viewer that cares about the story more than the flashy stuff?
The fuck is that hahaahhahahah
between the naritive of a white guy making it deep in a tourney by turtling to some bl infestor equivalent or watching Maru's micro I know which most people would prefer to watch :D

.
I care about people that come from my region, and since Korean starcraft is much more accomplished I care about foreigners trying to catch up and able to compete with Koreans. This is a cool storyline for me because i am not Korean.



They won't. Ever, And if this article is true the chances go from "A snowballs chance in Hell" to "Absolute Zero", since the only way they'll ever play Top Koreans is at Blizzcon, where they'll be 3-0'd so fast it'll make the Lilbow debacle look like the fucking GSL final.



I agree with you. I want foreigners to compete with good koreans on a regular basis.
WCS must aim to developp a competitive and rewarding atmosphere for foreigners as well as koreans. Not be a free-pass to blizzcon.

What I meant with the analogy with Ice Hockey, is that in Europe we don't have structures and investments enough to even have a decent league. Every good european has to go in NHL.
I don't want that to happen in Starcraft since the game is designed to be attractive to every player in every continent.

Thinking that koreans are better because they are koreans is straight bullshit, or even racism in a way (genetic, superior culture, whatever).
They are better because e-sport is a thing there, structures are strong and the practice environnement is the best (ladder, houses, coaches, regular leagues and huge fanbase).
<;o)
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 42 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 134
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2021
Jaedong 863
Larva 472
Stork 261
EffOrt 133
Sharp 112
910 104
Soma 101
ZerO 95
Shuttle 72
[ Show more ]
Leta 71
Pusan 67
NotJumperer 61
Rush 57
sorry 52
Mind 43
soO 33
Barracks 30
zelot 22
ZergMaN 19
Shine 13
GoRush 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Noble 10
Movie 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm202
Fuzer 149
League of Legends
C9.Mang0488
JimRising 440
Counter-Strike
summit1g9770
olofmeister1007
shoxiejesuss876
edward103
Other Games
ceh9518
Mew2King78
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick744
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 69
• naamasc249
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1843
• HappyZerGling131
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 41m
OSC
1d 1h
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.