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Blizzard Reportedly Radically Overhauling WCS - Page 32

Forum Index > SC2 General
827 CommentsPost a Reply
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Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
December 13 2015 23:22 GMT
#621
Good idea, lets also make 8 from each system pair with eachother in 1st round of global finals for more fun.
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 13 2015 23:27 GMT
#622
On December 14 2015 06:38 knOxStarcraft wrote:
This is good for viewership imo, koreans aren't the only ones who produce great games. In fact, I enjoy the foreigner games from NW3 as much or more than watching Koreans play, and I'd call myself a hardcore fan and player. the majority casual audience can't tell the difference between Korean and foreigner games until someone tells them that Koreans are way better. additionally, people like following people who have story lines, and Koreans don't have story lines most of the time.



Viewership stays the same. It changes nothing.
CheeseCakez0
Profile Joined August 2015
22 Posts
December 14 2015 00:48 GMT
#623
Great for the foreign players, but bad for the Koreans and spectators worldwide...
CptMarvel
Profile Joined May 2014
France236 Posts
December 14 2015 00:50 GMT
#624
Seems like yet another last-ditch attempt to make SC2 more viewer-friendly and popular. Not only is it going to fail but it's also going to prevent the current loyal community from getting the games it deserves.
Foreigners are blatantly inferior to Koreans, get over it Blizzard.
Lockdown-
Profile Joined May 2003
United States298 Posts
December 14 2015 00:58 GMT
#625
As a long time starcraft fan I'd be disappointed to see players locked out of tournaments. I think I speak for many of us when I say that we are mastery people, as in people who want to see the very best of the best at every available moment. Prohibiting Koreans from taking part in these tournaments will make the best of the best less likely. That's too bad.
neutralrobot
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia1025 Posts
December 14 2015 01:15 GMT
#626
If Blizzard's big concern is lack of foreigners in Blizzcon, it seems to me that the best thing they could do would be to make it a larger tournament. Look how much things would have changed if Blizzcon had actually had a Ro32 or a Ro48 this year. They even could have had an "Ro48" which didn't include the top 16, so that it was actually an Ro32 of players ranked 17-48. Things like that.

This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are other ideas for how to do it best, but seriously: expand Blizzcon. More foreigners and other fan favourites will be in the tournament that way. Though still dominated by Koreans, a larger portion of the global scene will mix. There will be weird upsets that keep people on the edge of their seats. And you still get the year's top players probably mostly wrecking everyone.
Maru | Life | PartinG || I guess I like aggressive control freaks... || Reynor will one day reign supreme || *reyn supreme
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
December 14 2015 01:30 GMT
#627
Troubled by this - Catz a good dude, but he's been historically pro-region lock so I'm guessing the Korean players are getting screwed.

But let's see - I think viewers (even new ones) will quickly realize that the foreigners are inferior and realize that it's basically affirmative action, but what the hell - let's give it another shot. Anything to create the next Huk, Naniwa or Stephano
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16948 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-14 02:18:38
December 14 2015 01:59 GMT
#628
On December 14 2015 10:15 neutralrobot wrote:
If Blizzard's big concern is lack of foreigners in Blizzcon,


Blizzard's biggest concern is that the entire eSports infrastructure is a giant financial black hole. Even BlizzCon itself loses money. Each year Blizzard changes the SC2 eSports competition so that it costs less money and resources because the whole thing is a giant money loser.

it'll be interesting to see if Blizzard ever takes a stab at generating a continuous stream of revenue out of SC2 multiplayer the way CoH2 and now SC2 does with with single player. generally speaking RTS multiplayer fans don't want to spend money.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
December 14 2015 02:12 GMT
#629
On December 14 2015 10:30 Bagration wrote:
Troubled by this - Catz a good dude, but he's been historically pro-region lock so I'm guessing the Korean players are getting screwed.

But let's see - I think viewers (even new ones) will quickly realize that the foreigners are inferior and realize that it's basically affirmative action, but what the hell - let's give it another shot. Anything to create the next Huk, Naniwa or Stephano

Or the next lilbow...
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
stefan16
Profile Joined June 2014
103 Posts
December 14 2015 06:02 GMT
#630
So it will be 6-8 players at Blizzcon who don't even deserve to be there. Next they probably ignore the visa and start checking birth certificate instead for region lock. They're killing the scene slowly.

Nevertheless, if the problem is money, as the guy before me said, then it cant be helped. As a company, if a project fails to make money (or even lose it), they have to close it or to make modification until it starts making money.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
December 14 2015 06:07 GMT
#631
Can we please not count Lilbow among the great names of foreign starcraft?
annedeman
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands350 Posts
December 14 2015 06:53 GMT
#632
I would be very disappointed if this were true, and i was in favor of wcs premier region locking
RAIN!!!, MMA!!,Innovation!!,Parting!!
SlammerIV
Profile Joined December 2013
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-14 07:07:26
December 14 2015 07:06 GMT
#633
I feel like most posters here really do not understand the simple economics of the situation. In the current WCS system non Korean players have very little incentive to dedicate their entire lives to stacraft, because of inferior ladder, inferior infrastructure, even if a non Korean puts in 14 hours a day and completely commits to being the best possible player they will receive little benefit. Korean players syphon most of the prize money in tournaments thus only a very few foreign player can afford to actually play starcraft. In fact if we are completely honest no foreigner is making a smart life choice by commiting to starcraft. Dedicating your brightest years to a craft which will scarcely allow you to pay rent and put oatmeal on the table is not a recipe for success.

I am probably not communicating well here but I guess I get so frustrated reading all these comments complaining about locking Koreans out. Its not about fairness, its not about "best games" its about whether or not we want to foster local talent or not. If Blizzard leaves the system as is sure, more Korean players will be able to win money in the short term, viewership will stay in the hardcore audience, less and less foreign players will compete, and eventually the game will die outside Korea.

I for one hope that starcaft will become more popular and I firmly believe this is through local player. Obviously most people on TL seem to disagree here but my only metric for what draws fans to the game is myself. And using myself as an example let me explain how I got into watching American football.
For years I never watched football, had very little interest. However, my grandparents recently moved to Seattle WA and when they visited we would watch Seattle play and they would tell me about how they were doing in the league etc. Fast forward a few years and now I am a die hard Hawks fan mostly because my grandparents live in Seattle. People relate to local heroes, there is no logical reason I would root for the Hawks over some other team, yet I do and I will watch a Seahawks game start to finish just because they are my team.

The same concept applies to starcraft, I always root for north American players first and formost simply because I view them as the local hero, if there is no NA player I root for the non Korea, if only Koreans are left I usually turn off the stream, depending on the tournament. I will watch prolegue and ssl occasionally, but I never get hyped for those events.
WCS America 2014 I scarcely watched, once Scarlett was out and most other NA players were out I turned it off. WCS 2015 was super exciting, I watched every single match start to finish. Now this is just my experience and my opinion, but I feel that most hardcore fans on TL are being a bit blind on this issue, local talent needs time and money to grow, Korea already has plenty of money pumped into it through GSL, SSL and Proleague, let the foreign scene grow without constantly getting crushed by Korean players coming over and taking the majority of prize money.

Anyway, I do apologize for the rambling post just had to get this off my chest
munitqua
Profile Joined November 2015
12 Posts
December 14 2015 07:19 GMT
#634
Reply to #633 SlammerIV

Great post, i agree 100%. I like some of the Korean players but I will always root for the non-Koreans. I am from the Netherlands myself so I will root for Europeans first (except Lilbow), then NA, then Koreans.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-14 07:22:12
December 14 2015 07:21 GMT
#635
You can blame lack of infrastructure all you want, if foreigners can't compete then they should dedicate their lives to starcraft in the first place. "Korea has prevented local talent from growing" is a fallacious idea and a toxic one at that.

WCS America 2014 I scarcely watched, once Scarlett was out and most other NA players were out I turned it off.

You might hate Koreans yourself, since you'd rather watch bad foreigners than good Koreans, but that doesn't apply to the rest of us. People here rightfully root for those who are GOOD at the game and DESERVE recognition.

To me, not rooting for a Korean because they are Korean is simply borderline racist.
maru lover forever
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
December 14 2015 07:22 GMT
#636
[B]On December 14 2015 16:06 SlammerIV
Its not about fairness, its not about "best games" its about whether or not we want to foster local talent or not. If Blizzard leaves the system as is sure, more Korean players will be able to win money in the short term, viewership will stay in the hardcore audience, less and less foreign players will compete, and eventually the game will die outside Korea.


You severely underestimate how much effort it would take to make the foreign scene properly grow. They've been paying NA ro64 nobodies $2K just for trying throughout 2015 and the scene has still shrunk. How long do you think they can keep that up? Never mind how much that spending would have to increase just to see growth.

These changes, if real, aren't an attempt at growth, they're an attempt at cost cutting. You cannot expect the foreign scene to grow when the number of premier tournaments is halved overnight. Like another poster said - foreign SC2 is a black hole. All Blizzard can realistically do is forestall the inevitable at the cost of hurting the only SC2 scene that is actually sustainable (maybe).

INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Wrath
Profile Blog Joined July 2014
3174 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-14 07:32:56
December 14 2015 07:22 GMT
#637
On December 14 2015 16:06 SlammerIV wrote:
I feel like most posters here really do not understand the simple economics of the situation. In the current WCS system non Korean players have very little incentive to dedicate their entire lives to stacraft, because of inferior ladder, inferior infrastructure, even if a non Korean puts in 14 hours a day and completely commits to being the best possible player they will receive little benefit. Korean players syphon most of the prize money in tournaments thus only a very few foreign player can afford to actually play starcraft. In fact if we are completely honest no foreigner is making a smart life choice by commiting to starcraft. Dedicating your brightest years to a craft which will scarcely allow you to pay rent and put oatmeal on the table is not a recipe for success.

I am probably not communicating well here but I guess I get so frustrated reading all these comments complaining about locking Koreans out. Its not about fairness, its not about "best games" its about whether or not we want to foster local talent or not. If Blizzard leaves the system as is sure, more Korean players will be able to win money in the short term, viewership will stay in the hardcore audience, less and less foreign players will compete, and eventually the game will die outside Korea.

I for one hope that starcaft will become more popular and I firmly believe this is through local player. Obviously most people on TL seem to disagree here but my only metric for what draws fans to the game is myself. And using myself as an example let me explain how I got into watching American football.
For years I never watched football, had very little interest. However, my grandparents recently moved to Seattle WA and when they visited we would watch Seattle play and they would tell me about how they were doing in the league etc. Fast forward a few years and now I am a die hard Hawks fan mostly because my grandparents live in Seattle. People relate to local heroes, there is no logical reason I would root for the Hawks over some other team, yet I do and I will watch a Seahawks game start to finish just because they are my team.

The same concept applies to starcraft, I always root for north American players first and formost simply because I view them as the local hero, if there is no NA player I root for the non Korea, if only Koreans are left I usually turn off the stream, depending on the tournament. I will watch prolegue and ssl occasionally, but I never get hyped for those events.
WCS America 2014 I scarcely watched, once Scarlett was out and most other NA players were out I turned it off. WCS 2015 was super exciting, I watched every single match start to finish. Now this is just my experience and my opinion, but I feel that most hardcore fans on TL are being a bit blind on this issue, local talent needs time and money to grow, Korea already has plenty of money pumped into it through GSL, SSL and Proleague, let the foreign scene grow without constantly getting crushed by Korean players coming over and taking the majority of prize money.

Anyway, I do apologize for the rambling post just had to get this off my chest



I do agree with you about foreign scene. After thinking about it for a while. I think this is better for all. BUT, Korean SC2 needs replacement for the ban over DH / IEM / RB and other tournaments. Blizzard needs to work with KeSPA to create some kind of events for them to compete and enlarge the scene there. Just because they have infrastructure does not mean to screw them over with this.

In addition, what about non-KeSPA players? Players like FanTaSy now have only GSL / SSL to play on...



P.S. Do you guys think Koreans knew about this even before DH winter? Solar words were "Remember me forever", he must have known that was his last DH ever...
munitqua
Profile Joined November 2015
12 Posts
December 14 2015 07:39 GMT
#638
In my opinion what the SC2 scene really needs is more prize money. When you compare the prize money of LoL, Dota or Counterstrike, SC2 prize money is peanuts.

Just look at the WCS Finals, a measly $100K for the winner even though we know Blizzard can afford a lot more than that.

Of course, this will not solve all the problems, but i do think that SC2 players need a bit more incentive. We need more European and NA players to commit to Starcraft full-time, and right now i don't think they want to, because they cannot make a decent living off of it.

Furthermore this is always the chicken and the egg story. The only way to increase prize money is to increase viewers, etc.
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
December 14 2015 07:45 GMT
#639
I can't believe it's reached this point. How does it take years? How does one not see this coming? Not fostering non Korean players/talent is little different than refusing certain sponsors for events based on the grounds of "it's not the best product. I will only showcase the best products." That's, you know, really noble... but, before you know it, though, no one is trying to sponsor your events because no one cares about your product.

Everything about WCS since I started playing has been the opposite of a reason to play and watch. I've always thought this game was horrible to watch. The only thing that made it "cool/interesting" was hype and the money guys were playing for. Since when has the Olympics been wrong? Since when has America needed "more Korean swimmers?" It's just so greedy on their part. That's what happens when you combine greed with an absence of common sense. You get irony. Shooting yourself in the foot and everyone else.

But another issue with WCS has been it's been a year locked thing: no one wants to change anything during a WCS season. The swam host could have literally and figuratively killed its viewers, yet you would hear some fluffy lie + "WCS season bro... it wouldn't be fair..." It's like coming up with a horrible ladder build, testing it out and realizing it's god awful, yet making a vow to use it, and only it, for the next year. No exceptions. That's just, well, bronze league. And that's where you will stay for a year. Or, in this case... 3+ years and counting.

When you look at where SC 2 was and where it is now, are we seriously going to place all of the blame on MOBAs? Fire someone, please. I'm tired of seeing 0 accountability. "Let's just wait and see." How long are we supposed to wait before this game makes sense to play, for anyone?

It's just so frustrating to feel like the same people who helped tank this game's popularity are the same ones still at helm. How does that breed optimism? They still won't even admit mistakes...
Sharkken
Profile Joined October 2012
Jordan141 Posts
December 14 2015 07:49 GMT
#640
I totally Agree with what NarutO said, it feels so sad that there is such a play to make foreigners gains more when they don't deserve it.

Liquid HerO Best Toss in the World
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