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On November 26 2015 06:58 purakushi wrote:Revert the siege tank to greatness: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Siege_Tank_(Heart_of_the_Swarm)#Patch_Changes- increase life from 150 to 160 if overkill is implemented - siege mode damage changed from 35 (+15 armoured) to 60 (70 if overkill is implemented) - siege mode upgrade damage changed from +3 (+2 armoured) to +4 (+5 if overkill is implemented) - attack cooldown increased from 2.8 to 3.0 (i.e. takes longer -- note, these are old Blizzard time seconds) - unsieges upon medivac pickup If a nerf is necessary, first look into increasing the attack cooldown. Reducing life can come second, but keep its high damage! A strong siege tank is awesome and makes it a unique unit.
You don't buff and nerf a unit at the same time.
They simply need to buff the siege tank back to it's original "can kill things" status and tweak from there. Otherwise here we go again - another few years of watching 99% bio play at professional level.
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On November 26 2015 06:08 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 05:56 DinoMight wrote:
LMAO bunker change.
At this point the only useful bunker change would be one that allows you to salvage it faster than Ravagers can kill it...
Flying Tanks are STUPID. That more than anything should be the driver for a change. But the reasoning for their change is quite dumb. They're changing it because Bio > Mech. Ok thanks, we've known that for 5 years now. And especially with the LotV economy changes and having to defend more bases/angles.. what did they expect??
Blizzard continues to keep their head up their own asses when it comes to addressing issues that have been voiced OVER AND OVER AND OVER by the community:
- Zerg is OP as fuck, nerf Zerg (this isn't simply balance whine, they're 45% of Masters....)
- Corrosive Bile is too strong
- Lurkers are too strong
- Parasitic bomb is too strong
- Ultras are too strong
- Terran has 1 viable build vs Zerg otherwise they die to Ravagers
- Colos are too weak
- Early aggression is nonexistent. Greed can only be countered by more greed. Please fix this
Man am I glad you aren't in charge of balance lol. Terran is fine, only race that has a right to complain about balance right now is Protoss. Seriously try bio + liberator compositions, their very good  . Mech though is weak and I am fine with that because turtle mech should never be viable. You need to start scouting for when Hive starts so you can start a transition into Liberators (if for some reason you aren't making them already) and adding in some ghosts. It's nice, Terran can't stay MMM all game long and have to do transitions like all the other races.
One Parasitic Bomb can kill literally every single Liberator.
You're telling me Terrans should be able to pick out the infected Liberator out of a clump of 10 of them and split it while microing their bio vs Ultra Ling Bane?
Parasitic bomb. Is too strong.
It shouldn't stack, and the infected unit should be easier to identify. This is so straightforward... they had it in BW.
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yep, uninformed or unskilled people saying blizzard is improving the right things, rest of people that play this game and know whats good or what is wrong is complaining, fucking hell, at this point if it were up to me id make blizzards balance team go somewhere else, totally clueless, totally arrogant, totally wrong...
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I see a few people are complaining about zerg here are my thoughts on it.
The lurker is very strong I agree, It provides zerg with a very different style of unit and I think players haven't worked out how to play against it. With the changes to the larva system lurkers are a very larva efficent unit that control space very well. It's an iconic unit, it does it's job well and it is a lot of fun to play, intelligent use of lurkers is great to watch.
I don't think it is too strong because it is a pretty expensive unit, pretty much tier 3 in that the hydra den needs to be upgraded and then you need to morph the unit from the hydra. There is a long transition period in which you can take advantage of a zerg going this route.
Parasitic Bomb provides zerg with the solutions to mass air turtle that it didn't have before. Perhaps it is a mistake putting this spell on the viper as it has too much utility? Maybe this spell should be on the infestor? Maybe it should be researchable?
I personally don't do ravager busts so I can't speak to that but if it is truly insane then toning down the bile vs buildings sounds like a simple fix? I have only seen Soulkey do this build vs Maru and he was already massively ahead in that game but the damage to the bunker was a bit crazy.
I don't really know what the problem with Nydus wurm is
I'm losing a lot to a lot of different stuff from all 3 races as I try and figure this game out so I don't know if anything is "too strong/too weak" or if i'm just playing bad. let's wait for DH and then see what happens.
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The potential issue with Siege Tank pickup is that Terran play seems to have become more heavily bio favored because of it. We believe this is happening because previously, bio had the advantage of mobility and the disadvantage of being less powerful versus mech in a heads-up fight. Mech has the strong front line, but its composition isn’t mobile. Right now, due to Siege mode Tanks being so easy to relocate at a high pace (bio compositions naturally have a lot of Medivacs), we’re seeing bio compositions simply never engage against a full mech army. This essentially removes the main advantage that the mech player has over bio.
Can anybody explain this part? It just doesnt make any sense to me.
Why does Siege Tanks being easy to relocate make Bio compositions never engage with them? Shouldnt it make it easier for the mech player to force an engagement because they are now easier to relocate?
Why does Siege Tanks being easy to relocate remove the advantages of mech? It just doesnt make any sense... Shouldnt it just give mech even more advantages? More mobility is a buff, is it not?
What are they trying to say???
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On November 26 2015 07:49 RoomOfMush wrote:Show nested quote +The potential issue with Siege Tank pickup is that Terran play seems to have become more heavily bio favored because of it. We believe this is happening because previously, bio had the advantage of mobility and the disadvantage of being less powerful versus mech in a heads-up fight. Mech has the strong front line, but its composition isn’t mobile. Right now, due to Siege mode Tanks being so easy to relocate at a high pace (bio compositions naturally have a lot of Medivacs), we’re seeing bio compositions simply never engage against a full mech army. This essentially removes the main advantage that the mech player has over bio. Can anybody explain this part? It just doesnt make any sense to me. Why does Siege Tanks being easy to relocate make Bio compositions never engage with them? Shouldnt it make it easier for the mech player to force an engagement because they are now easier to relocate? Why does Siege Tanks being easy to relocate remove the advantages of mech? It just doesnt make any sense... Shouldnt it just give mech even more advantages? More mobility is a buff, is it not? What are they trying to say???
I believe they are talking about the bio player's tanks. I don't think the bio side is ever just pure bio, they have a few tanks
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On November 26 2015 07:49 RoomOfMush wrote:Show nested quote +The potential issue with Siege Tank pickup is that Terran play seems to have become more heavily bio favored because of it. We believe this is happening because previously, bio had the advantage of mobility and the disadvantage of being less powerful versus mech in a heads-up fight. Mech has the strong front line, but its composition isn’t mobile. Right now, due to Siege mode Tanks being so easy to relocate at a high pace (bio compositions naturally have a lot of Medivacs), we’re seeing bio compositions simply never engage against a full mech army. This essentially removes the main advantage that the mech player has over bio. Can anybody explain this part? It just doesnt make any sense to me. Why does Siege Tanks being easy to relocate make Bio compositions never engage with them? Shouldnt it make it easier for the mech player to force an engagement because they are now easier to relocate? Why does Siege Tanks being easy to relocate remove the advantages of mech? It just doesnt make any sense... Shouldnt it just give mech even more advantages? More mobility is a buff, is it not? What are they trying to say???
Bio Tank uses lots of medivacs, mech does not.
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On November 26 2015 07:38 PepperMintTea wrote:
I don't really know what the problem with Nydus wurm is
There is just very little counter-play to Nydus worms. You either have enough units or you don't, static defense + sim city are nearly useless against Nydus play. This forces Terrans into certain builds to not die to Nydus timings (which may not be particularly good against any other build), decreasing the variety of openings that can be used against Zerg.
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On November 26 2015 07:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 06:33 Grumbels wrote:On November 26 2015 06:08 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I'm glad they are seeing the problem with mech vs bio due to flying Tanks in TvT.
But, what about there being f all mech in all the other MUs? Get on it Blizz and don't take 4 years like usual.
EDIT: about the proposed change of having tanks un-siege when picked up, it sound good but it's impossible to tell without seeing it in play. Make a test map please. After every expansion mech is weak again and Blizzard has to specifically address it. And every time they introduce new units they work best with bio. For your edit, this version of the tank pick-up is similar to Starbow's, it's strictly weaker than the current iteration and as far as I know didn't lead to any glaring issues in a game more sensitive to hyper mobility. On November 26 2015 05:59 cheekymonkey wrote:On November 26 2015 05:56 chipmonklord17 wrote:On November 26 2015 05:41 HeroMystic wrote:On November 26 2015 04:41 eviltomahawk wrote:
Bunker upgrade change
We agree with your feedback that this upgrade could use a redesign to something more interesting such as the popular suggestion of making them individual upgrades. We don’t think it’s such a pressing issue that it will break the game if we don’t fix it, so we‘re going to take our time working on this change. But we can get discussions going in terms of what might be the most interesting thing to do here, and work on it over time. Thanks for this suggestion and please continue discussing how we could best address the Bunker upgrade.
What is this "Individual upgrades" that Blizzard is talking about? Also I'd be totally fine with them just getting rid of the upgrade completely. Terran has too many upgrades/research anyway. It was brought up on a channel, maybe BaseTradeTV at some point that a suggestion was floating around to make Neosteal Frame an individual upgrade like overlord drop is for an overlord. This means that you could invest in transforming a specific bunker into a higher capacity bunker. A change that I think would be a really cool change for a currently worthless upgrade Overlord drop is an individual upgrade now  And the way that Blizzard works, if they have a successful model for a certain type of change they'll be more likely to add it to other parts of the game. I think it's partly because they have to create some coding resources and so on. I think that part of the problem with mech is that Blizz doesn't always know how to read games. By that i mean that in both HOTS and LOTV BETAs, lots of Terrans were experimenting, and since mech was the intended new thing for terran, obviously there was lots and lots of mech. When the game comes out though, players start playing for money and they do what they think actually works. So DK and friends are in limbo: "we saw mech in BETA so why not now? Are players lazy? Is bio to strong? let's just wait 3 weeks, 3 months, one year, etc".
I just think it's funny:
- widow mines and hellbats added to factory -> bio too strong in TvZ
- siege tank pick-up added for medivacs -> bio too strong in TvT
- liberator added to starport -> bio too strong in TvP
mech never gets a break
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I like the idea of bunkers being individually upgraded, perhaps the upgrade could add a turret or something similar to the bunker, meaning that Terran could have some form of static defense without having to commit supply to it. The upgrade cost could be expensive and take a long time to upgrade.
Another potential idea for the upgrade, still being individually upgraded could be spiked, deal damage to attacker upon activation. This would provide more micro opportunities for Terran, and would add another element to defensive play.
Obviously these upgrades would be better tuned for the mid - late game, so either having some form or armory requirement or costly + lengthy upgrade time.
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Can we get a hotkey for "activate autocasting" on building interceptors ?
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On November 26 2015 08:29 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 07:17 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 26 2015 06:33 Grumbels wrote:On November 26 2015 06:08 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I'm glad they are seeing the problem with mech vs bio due to flying Tanks in TvT.
But, what about there being f all mech in all the other MUs? Get on it Blizz and don't take 4 years like usual.
EDIT: about the proposed change of having tanks un-siege when picked up, it sound good but it's impossible to tell without seeing it in play. Make a test map please. After every expansion mech is weak again and Blizzard has to specifically address it. And every time they introduce new units they work best with bio. For your edit, this version of the tank pick-up is similar to Starbow's, it's strictly weaker than the current iteration and as far as I know didn't lead to any glaring issues in a game more sensitive to hyper mobility. On November 26 2015 05:59 cheekymonkey wrote:On November 26 2015 05:56 chipmonklord17 wrote:On November 26 2015 05:41 HeroMystic wrote:On November 26 2015 04:41 eviltomahawk wrote:
Bunker upgrade change
We agree with your feedback that this upgrade could use a redesign to something more interesting such as the popular suggestion of making them individual upgrades. We don’t think it’s such a pressing issue that it will break the game if we don’t fix it, so we‘re going to take our time working on this change. But we can get discussions going in terms of what might be the most interesting thing to do here, and work on it over time. Thanks for this suggestion and please continue discussing how we could best address the Bunker upgrade.
What is this "Individual upgrades" that Blizzard is talking about? Also I'd be totally fine with them just getting rid of the upgrade completely. Terran has too many upgrades/research anyway. It was brought up on a channel, maybe BaseTradeTV at some point that a suggestion was floating around to make Neosteal Frame an individual upgrade like overlord drop is for an overlord. This means that you could invest in transforming a specific bunker into a higher capacity bunker. A change that I think would be a really cool change for a currently worthless upgrade Overlord drop is an individual upgrade now And the way that Blizzard works, if they have a successful model for a certain type of change they'll be more likely to add it to other parts of the game. I think it's partly because they have to create some coding resources and so on. I think that part of the problem with mech is that Blizz doesn't always know how to read games. By that i mean that in both HOTS and LOTV BETAs, lots of Terrans were experimenting, and since mech was the intended new thing for terran, obviously there was lots and lots of mech. When the game comes out though, players start playing for money and they do what they think actually works. So DK and friends are in limbo: "we saw mech in BETA so why not now? Are players lazy? Is bio to strong? let's just wait 3 weeks, 3 months, one year, etc". I just think it's funny: - widow mines and hellbats added to factory -> bio too strong in TvZ - siege tank pick-up added for medivacs -> bio too strong in TvT - liberator added to starport -> bio too strong in TvP mech never gets a break
It's because Mech doesn't have a strong, versatile, massable unit like the Marine. Hellbats are massable, but not versatile nor strong (Especially without medivacs). Widow mines are massable but very niche. Tanks are strong but not versatile and massable. Thors are strong and versatile but they sure as fuck isn't massable.
Cyclones are Cyclones.
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For Co-op missions perhaps the difficulties could scale more, personally I have no trouble playing brutal missions whether it be campaign or co-op.
I wouldn't even describe Brutal to be difficult in that sense. From my experiences at this difficulty most of the challenge is just figuring out the correct unit composition to counter the AI's unit composition.
I think Brutal difficulty should force the AI to go through the cycle of compositions more accurately as players would in a multiplayer 1v1 game. Although one could argue they do do this at the moment, I would argue that they seem to do it very casually, and what I mean by this is say it was mid way through a mission, the AI may have built stalkers and colossus for example. The difference between the Brutal AI and a good player is that a good player knows that they need to prioritize keeping their colossus alive, which may mean pulling it back when it is targeted or targeting units which target the colossus. The AI doesn't seem to do this and it would be cool to see the AI micro more effectively for Brutal mode.
Other than that I agree that the level of difficulty should scale a bit more. Easy can remain the same if necessary but the other options should be more difficult I feel.
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On November 26 2015 05:11 b0ub0u wrote:
Have you guys ever seen a game where the bunker upgrade was researched?
MVP did a build centered around rushing neosteel frame and containing protoss on 2 bases with bunkers and tanks. It was glorious.
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On November 26 2015 06:08 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 05:56 DinoMight wrote:
LMAO bunker change.
At this point the only useful bunker change would be one that allows you to salvage it faster than Ravagers can kill it...
Flying Tanks are STUPID. That more than anything should be the driver for a change. But the reasoning for their change is quite dumb. They're changing it because Bio > Mech. Ok thanks, we've known that for 5 years now. And especially with the LotV economy changes and having to defend more bases/angles.. what did they expect??
Blizzard continues to keep their head up their own asses when it comes to addressing issues that have been voiced OVER AND OVER AND OVER by the community:
- Zerg is OP as fuck, nerf Zerg (this isn't simply balance whine, they're 45% of Masters....)
- Corrosive Bile is too strong
- Lurkers are too strong
- Parasitic bomb is too strong
- Ultras are too strong
- Terran has 1 viable build vs Zerg otherwise they die to Ravagers
- Colos are too weak
- Early aggression is nonexistent. Greed can only be countered by more greed. Please fix this
Man am I glad you aren't in charge of balance lol. Terran is fine, only race that has a right to complain about balance right now is Protoss. Seriously try bio + liberator compositions, their very good . Mech though is weak and I am fine with that because turtle mech should never be viable. You need to start scouting for when Hive starts so you can start a transition into Liberators (if for some reason you aren't making them already) and adding in some ghosts. It's nice, Terran can't stay MMM all game long and have to do transitions like all the other races.
Simply because terran isn't getting as rekt as hard compared to protoss doesn't make TvZ "fine".
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On November 26 2015 08:38 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Can we get a hotkey for "activate autocasting" on building interceptors ?
'Alt+hotkey' toggles autocasting and I believe it defaults to toggling abilities on in groups with mixed states.
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On November 26 2015 09:10 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 08:38 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Can we get a hotkey for "activate autocasting" on building interceptors ? 'Alt+hotkey' toggles autocasting and I believe it defaults to toggling abilities on in groups with mixed states.
Hey that's nice, I didn't know that. I'll try it -I use carriers a lot
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I think they need an "insane" mode on the campaign missions. Brutal is good, but I think they could take it one step further and make the mission nearly impossible.
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IMO the early game zerg need to be nerfed a bit.
I am a random player and I feel Terran is the weakest right now, then Protoss and Zerg. (I am only a master scrub so you can disregard my point of view)
Moreover I used to love to play Terran but on Lotv it became the less funny race to play of the three. I think I just doesn't like Terran new addition to the game.
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I'm sorry to hear that the only thing on their radar regarding the siege tank is nerfing it without considering a different way of making it strong. The Terran universe continues to revolve around bio. Bio, bio, bio.
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EPT
