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I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make. If the court wanted to prevent a player ever earning money by playing or commentating on a specific game, or competitive games in general, they could so order.
Personally, I think it would be better if they had so ordered, for two reasons.
Firstly, a vital part of ensuring restitution for tainting an organised sport is that the taint be seen to be removed. Match-fixers publicly continuing to earn money from a sport after being convicted of bringing it into disrepute effectively prevent the sport from recovering its good name.
Secondly, a match-fixer earning money from streaming Starcraft is profiting from those he harmed. The notion that a player should be allowed to put the livelihoods of others in jeopardy, and then earn money off the back of their continued efforts to popularise the sport, is not in my view defensible.
Analogies with buying coffee and broccoli are simply absurd. If I drive drunk, I get banned. Exactly how much ice do you think it would cut with the judge if I stood up and said "You can't ban me from driving because that's like banning me from eating crisps"?
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lol a bunch of people say afreeca should comply with kespa and they are met with arguments and criticisms.
then nazgul comes along and words it nicely and suddenly its 'fair enough' and near admission of defeat
the power of nazgul
and thank you umpteen. someone who actually knows what theyre talking about
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On October 21 2015 22:39 Umpteen wrote:
I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make.
Afreeca is a private company. They have the right to deny service to anyone for basically any reason they deem appropriate so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws (racism, sexism, etc).
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Sorry for long post, two replies in here:
On October 21 2015 14:25 r_gg wrote:
If YoDa and Gerrard thought even for a second about the consequences of match-fixing and how it impacted the scene back then, they wouldn't be doing what they did. No "it was for the team" isn't even an acceptable excuse because their act is what caused the scene to lose out on sponsorship and created tons of unpaid players in the first place. What they did is making things get even worse for the sake of their own interest. What are you going to do if SBENU or Hotsix decides to stop sponsoring Starcraft due to all the bad press from it? What if SpoTV decide to drop esport all together? (which is pretty much what happened back in BW incident)
How is Kespa going to convince an outsider that there is no more match-fixing going on when the organizer of the most prestigious tournament of the scene is openly supporting a match-fixer streaming and profiting off of the very game he tainted? That it won't happen if you treat the players well? That clearly doesn't explain how successful players like savior or yoda got evolved. Kespa needs to be firm in showing that the industry as a whole is against what happened, and it's going to be difficult to gain a sponsor's trust if they can't show that Afreeca, which is now sizable part of the scene's organization, supports their cause for a cleaner competitive scene.
These are all very good points! If you notice in my post, I said I was specifically addressing those who seem to be out to be punishing the players specifically for hurting esports' integrity.
I don't think "it was for the team", not sure if that's you paraphrasing, but I'll just say that I think matchfixing hurts the scene as a whole and they SHOULD be banned from the scene. It sucks for them, but in the end, regardless of reasons why, we must remove the bad actors.
I'm specifically addressing the fact that I would like to see some people who are so raging mad about integrity also talk about the integrity of any scene who allows teams to not pay their players. And the integrity of a scene that would crucify a few players while sitting back and believing the scene is not partly responsible itself.
Does no one seriously believe not getting paid might have something to do with the players being tempted into throwing matches for a meager few thousand. Something that if found out would destroy their careers?
I know the response to me questioning eSports integrity to begin with is going to be harsh. But I find it really hard to worry about integrity of the Korean scene when they still don't even have real player protections and a lot of them aren't salaried. Where do you think these kids go once they are done with their runs entertaining us? All right into super well paying jobs with a huge saving from playing for a KeSPA team? That was my point about integrity... and specifically about why I think it may apply in the PRIME case.
I love SC, but I don't think it's all rainbows and unicorns behind the scenes.
As for the other response about being a utopian... I don't think it's utopian to think that punishing someone once for their crime is enough. I also don't think it's utopian to think these players shouldn't be in positions where they feel they have to take money from a match fixer to pay rent. Is it utopian to care as much about whether there is a systemic problem that pushes these players toward it? I don't know. I don't claim to know for sure that there even is, by the way.
But I'd like to see more articles about that, then about how they hurt esports, because I do care about actually rooting it out. Not finding more ways of punishing the players who already have been caught.
As for Gerrard, I hope they roast him [figuratively] along with the mobsters who where threatening and blackmailing the players.
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On October 21 2015 22:42 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol a bunch of people say afreeca should comply with kespa and they are met with arguments and criticisms.
then nazgul comes along and words it nicely and suddenly its 'fair enough' and near admission of defeat
the power of nazgul
and thank you umpteen. someone who actually knows what theyre talking about
Sorry!!
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On October 21 2015 21:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +That would be ridiculous and show any lower level GSL player or Proleague player, that risking match fixing is worth it. It is worth it because the esports environment in korea is fucking ridiculous. Say you are a "lower lvl gsl player", you train every single day countless hours and probably don't make ANY salary. You make very poor money in tournaments because the prize pool is stupidly top heavy. You basically would get more money by working a low end job elsewhere. At the same time you help your teammates (the 'good ones') to make one trophy after another. I wonder why these guys would be easy targets for illegal gambling, hmmmmm. If the scene cannot sustain salaried players, then it probably isn't a worthwhile scene to begin with. It's pretty simple actually, the players don't have enough rights and this is the main problem here. (from the esport side of things, the gambling side is another topic entirely)
Can you stop making weird assumptions and not very smart comparisons? The issue is not about wanting revenge on matchfixers, nor is it about the condition programers live in. It is about a company that organizes/hosts/broadcast competitive games tournaments and provides at the same time a safe haven for people who had criminal records related to these games to earn money through their service with these same games. This is both immoral and hurting the credibility of the people who are still active. It is like Afreeca does not realize or does not want to be part of the scene while still making profit off of it. This is not ok, especially not since we know they are going to host GSL. The blame is not on the players in my case, it is on Afreeca acting as if they are unrelated to the issue, too bad they are. And I don't need to imagine that the host of tournaments and the streaming service are different companies because THEY ARE THE DAMN SAME COMPANY. This is the very point of the issue.
They should not be allowed to keep both side of the coins. I would be fine if they either complied with Kespa request's or gave up on hosting tournaments. This is ridiculous currently.
Also gambling has nothing to do about bad condition or bad salary for the players. There are illegal betting everywhere, from sport thriving in money (horse race, soccer, rugby, basket ball etc) to sport with little money at stakes (handball, even fucking curling etc). Justifying these activities with that is simply untrue. People do these out of greed, that's all there is to it. Be their greed lessened/justified by terrible life condition or not, it is still greed.
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On October 21 2015 22:42 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol a bunch of people say afreeca should comply with kespa and they are met with arguments and criticisms.
then nazgul comes along and words it nicely and suddenly its 'fair enough' and near admission of defeat
the power of nazgul
and thank you umpteen. someone who actually knows what theyre talking about
By using "fair enough" apparently you specifically accuse me of being "near admission of defeat". This is not true I can tell you and it isn't implicated by my response at all. Besides my direct criticism of Nazgul's post there were others as well. You're seeing things that aren't there.
But why am I even responding to a post beginning with "lol"? :-S
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Poland3748 Posts
On October 21 2015 22:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 21:36 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The idea that you can become popular through gaming and then throw matches and still use that same popularity and fanbase to continue to earn money does not set a good precedent, as it basically mitigates a lot of the risk of throwing matches. In order to properly motivate people to make the right life decisions getting caught for throwing matches should put people in a lot worse of a situation than never throwing them at all. If these two widely different decisions are too close to each other in value there isn't enough deterrence. I'm really sorry but streaming Afreeca has everything to do with using the popularity gained as a progamer and nothing to do with doing groceries. There's a whole world outside of StarCraft to consider. On what basis can one deny formerly convicted criminals to use products or services they abused in the past? In this case there isn't any legal basis I presume. Only Afreeca can ban these former offenders. They are not doing this because they say they feel they shouldn't give out extra punishment on top of what they already got. One can agree or not but it is, and should be, only their prerogative. Right it is up to Afreeca to decide whether they want to comply with a sports associations request and figure out whether they want to fall within the sports confines or outside of it. However make no mistake the law is one thing, but sports federations oftentimes, and rightfully so, have their own regulation that trumps it. In this case KeSPA is hoping that Afreeca feels they are part of the sports ecosystem instead of outside of it. Afreeca is in their full right to decline this, but IMO it would be nice if they had complied, as I do think streaming services are a huge part of the esports ecosystem.
If Lance Armstrong would show up on a bike in TV, should UCI try to protest and ban him from ever appearing with a bike in TV? I think not.
Afreeca perhaps can ban them from streaming games (and BTW: which games? IF YoDa streams LoL - would it be OK? WC3? WoW? Witcher3? Or should he be permabanned for streaming anything including playing on a guitar and singing k-pop covers?) but they shouldn't because streaming casual games and competing is just different activity, even if similar in some aspects.
Sorry but when you say he shouldn't be allowed to stream SC, it almost sounds like streaming SC is for professional gamers playing SC so when he is kicked out from being professional gamer, he shouldn't be allowed to stream.
The only situation I'd agree with banning Yoda and the rest for Afreeca was if Afreeca was solely dedicated as streaming platform for professional gamers. It isn't (AFAIK).
EDIT: Worth to point out: Yoda streaming on Afreeca is probably bad for esports (it sounds bad I'm not sure how actually bad it will be) but that doesn't justify him being banned.
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If people are against them streaming on afreeca, just send mails to gsl, stop watching to gsl or afreeca. Or send mails to kespa, that they should not let players go to gsl or something. We'll see if the impact is big enough to make a difference.
Most people will be unable to face the consequences of their morality, and nothing will happen.
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On October 21 2015 23:17 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 22:42 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol a bunch of people say afreeca should comply with kespa and they are met with arguments and criticisms.
then nazgul comes along and words it nicely and suddenly its 'fair enough' and near admission of defeat
the power of nazgul
and thank you umpteen. someone who actually knows what theyre talking about By using "fair enough" apparently you specifically accuse me of being "near admission of defeat". This is not true I can tell you and it isn't implicated by my response at all. Besides my direct criticism of Nazgul's post there were others as well. You're seeing things that aren't there. But why am I even responding to a post beginning with "lol"? :-S
actually the near admission of defeat was the guy who posted above you, but whatever
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On October 21 2015 22:43 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 22:39 Umpteen wrote:
I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make. Afreeca is a private company. They have the right to deny service to anyone for basically any reason they deem appropriate so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws (racism, sexism, etc).
Banning them from streaming SC2 sounds sensible enough. Banning them from streaming something else is another matter. Where should the boundary be ? Should streaming another videogame be banned ? Should streaming a puppet show be banned ? What is the deadline ? 30 years from now, are they allowed to add a video of their children's weddings ?
Identifying automatically the content of a given stream sounds technically difficult. Monitoring streaming content manually is impractical.
I still think Afreeca could prevent them from being tagged SC2 / being featured as SC2 stream if the tags exist on their searches, but banning them from streaming without restriction if Afreeca is seen as a global video platform (youtube like) and not specifically a gaming one would sound weird.
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On October 21 2015 23:35 Oshuy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 22:43 -Celestial- wrote:On October 21 2015 22:39 Umpteen wrote:
I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make. Afreeca is a private company. They have the right to deny service to anyone for basically any reason they deem appropriate so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws (racism, sexism, etc). Identifying automatically the content of a given stream sounds technically difficult. Monitoring streaming content manually is impractical.
couldn't be any easier: users report if they see your SC2 stream, accumulate 3 (or any certain number) reports for streaming SC2 and you're banned from Afreeca altogether.
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On October 21 2015 23:51 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 23:35 Oshuy wrote:On October 21 2015 22:43 -Celestial- wrote:On October 21 2015 22:39 Umpteen wrote:
I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make. Afreeca is a private company. They have the right to deny service to anyone for basically any reason they deem appropriate so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws (racism, sexism, etc). Identifying automatically the content of a given stream sounds technically difficult. Monitoring streaming content manually is impractical. couldn't be any easier: users report if they see your SC2 stream, accumulate 3 (or any certain number) reports for streaming SC2 and you're banned from Afreeca altogether.
That is already in place on any streaming platform, nothing specific for Afreeca to do here. I would still be concerned with the hateful reports regardless of the content though.
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On October 21 2015 23:51 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 23:35 Oshuy wrote:On October 21 2015 22:43 -Celestial- wrote:On October 21 2015 22:39 Umpteen wrote:
I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make. Afreeca is a private company. They have the right to deny service to anyone for basically any reason they deem appropriate so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws (racism, sexism, etc). Identifying automatically the content of a given stream sounds technically difficult. Monitoring streaming content manually is impractical. couldn't be any easier: users report if they see your SC2 stream, accumulate 3 (or any certain number) reports for streaming SC2 and you're banned from Afreeca altogether.
Yeah, because people totally aren't going to troll-report
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On October 21 2015 21:50 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 21:37 Musicus wrote:On October 21 2015 21:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 21 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The idea that you can become popular through gaming and then throw matches and still use that same popularity and fanbase to continue to earn money does not set a good precedent, as it basically mitigates a lot of the risk of throwing matches. In order to properly motivate people to make the right life decisions getting caught for throwing matches should put people in a lot worse of a situation than never throwing them at all. If these two widely different decisions are too close to each other in value there isn't enough deterrence. I'm really sorry but streaming Afreeca has everything to do with using the popularity gained as a progamer and nothing to do with doing groceries. So we should ban these people from ANYTHING which is easier to do when having a fanbase. Like anything which is in the public eye, "nope sorry you matchfixed in the past, you aren't allowed to write a book an publish it!" Ridiculous That's of course not the case and not realistic. But at leasting banning them from the related space, in this case the esports and streaming sector, should be the minimum. Should they just be banned from GSL and that's it? That would be ridiculous and show any lower level GSL player or Proleague player, that risking match fixing is worth it. They won't be in a much worse position in case they get caught anyway. If anything the drama around them could make them more famous and increase their stream viewership. Providing a medium for matchfixers, to keep making a living of the scene, that they spit on and damaged, is wrong. Banning them from the whole esports and streaming sector? Really? Why? They will be banned from playing competitive StarCraft II. That's what they deserve for having matchfixed StarCraft II matches. Why shouldn't they be allowed to play LoL or DotA or CSGO if they want to? Why shouldn't they be allowed to stream things? I have the feeling that there's this conception that many people share that because they matchfixed, they are somehow evil persons that were born evil. That's just ridiculous. The decision they took to matchfix was specific to a context and a state of mind, and the very vast majority of people who are shaming them right now would have done just like them in the same situation. And the argument that preventing them from streaming and shit is here to discourage people from matchfixing is ridiculous. These people are going to jail. To JAIL. They'll be judged in front of a court. They'll receive hate from the community. They'll most likely receive hatemail, mockery, threats, maybe even deaththreats. Can you imagine how psychologically affecting this is? Do you think the guy who matchfixes thinks about all that when he does it? Do you think the guy who matchfixes will be discouraged when he knows he won't be allowed to stream if he gets caught, considering he did it while knowing he risked prison, hate, psychological trauma?
So you would be fine with YoDa competing in other esports after he was found guilty of matchfixing in sc2? I would hope not and I'm sure the esports leagues and associations of the world won't be either. I'm sure they all have rules about morality/portsmanship and most likely about machtfixing explicitely. I don't think he would ever dare to try to compete in esports again, but I'm even more sure that nobody will give him the chance.
And I think that's good and I definitely don't think YoDa is evil or anything. But he made a huge mistake and has to live with the consuquences and that includes the ones outside of the law. I believe in second chances and YoDa will have his and is free to study or work in any sector he likes. I hope he can bounce back and live a good life in the future. But don't expect him to be able to set foot in esports again and hopefully measures are taken to make sure he can not. I would hope this includes Afreeca, who will be running GSL next year.
On October 21 2015 21:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +That would be ridiculous and show any lower level GSL player or Proleague player, that risking match fixing is worth it. It is worth it because the esports environment in korea is fucking ridiculous. Say you are a "lower lvl gsl player", you train every single day countless hours and probably don't make ANY salary. You make very poor money in tournaments because the prize pool is stupidly top heavy. You basically would get more money by working a low end job elsewhere. At the same time you help your teammates (the 'good ones') to make one trophy after another. I wonder why these guys would be easy targets for illegal gambling, hmmmmm. If the scene cannot sustain salaried players, then it probably isn't a worthwhile scene to begin with. It's pretty simple actually, the players don't have enough rights and this is the main problem here. (from the esport side of things, the gambling side is another topic entirely)
I completely agree with you that it's very sad that the Korean sc2 scene can not support all the players and that players are desperate enough to matchfix. I already stated in the main thread that this is a problem and I hope it will be better in the future. But this and that are two different things.
If the scene is not worth playing 10 hours a days, then YoDa should stop playing and go study or work a normal job. But in no scenario does it make what he did any better or more forgivable. It's way too serious stuff and could the destory sc2 in Korea completely.
Anyway <3 u both The_Red_Viper and OtherWorld, these are my thoughts, let's see were it goes. I won't keep discussing this, since I think it's getting too heated in many threads and it's okay for different opinions to exist (of course I will keep reading any reply!).
I do not think YoDa or B4 are evil, I hope they learn from this and get a second chance and can live a good life in the future. Just not in esports.
Hopefully LotV and sc2 will do well in Korea next year, despite all of this.
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On October 22 2015 00:18 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 21:50 OtherWorld wrote:On October 21 2015 21:37 Musicus wrote:On October 21 2015 21:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 21 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The idea that you can become popular through gaming and then throw matches and still use that same popularity and fanbase to continue to earn money does not set a good precedent, as it basically mitigates a lot of the risk of throwing matches. In order to properly motivate people to make the right life decisions getting caught for throwing matches should put people in a lot worse of a situation than never throwing them at all. If these two widely different decisions are too close to each other in value there isn't enough deterrence. I'm really sorry but streaming Afreeca has everything to do with using the popularity gained as a progamer and nothing to do with doing groceries. So we should ban these people from ANYTHING which is easier to do when having a fanbase. Like anything which is in the public eye, "nope sorry you matchfixed in the past, you aren't allowed to write a book an publish it!" Ridiculous That's of course not the case and not realistic. But at leasting banning them from the related space, in this case the esports and streaming sector, should be the minimum. Should they just be banned from GSL and that's it? That would be ridiculous and show any lower level GSL player or Proleague player, that risking match fixing is worth it. They won't be in a much worse position in case they get caught anyway. If anything the drama around them could make them more famous and increase their stream viewership. Providing a medium for matchfixers, to keep making a living of the scene, that they spit on and damaged, is wrong. Banning them from the whole esports and streaming sector? Really? Why? They will be banned from playing competitive StarCraft II. That's what they deserve for having matchfixed StarCraft II matches. Why shouldn't they be allowed to play LoL or DotA or CSGO if they want to? Why shouldn't they be allowed to stream things? I have the feeling that there's this conception that many people share that because they matchfixed, they are somehow evil persons that were born evil. That's just ridiculous. The decision they took to matchfix was specific to a context and a state of mind, and the very vast majority of people who are shaming them right now would have done just like them in the same situation. And the argument that preventing them from streaming and shit is here to discourage people from matchfixing is ridiculous. These people are going to jail. To JAIL. They'll be judged in front of a court. They'll receive hate from the community. They'll most likely receive hatemail, mockery, threats, maybe even deaththreats. Can you imagine how psychologically affecting this is? Do you think the guy who matchfixes thinks about all that when he does it? Do you think the guy who matchfixes will be discouraged when he knows he won't be allowed to stream if he gets caught, considering he did it while knowing he risked prison, hate, psychological trauma? So you would be fine with YoDa competing in other esports after he was found guilty of matchfixing in sc2? I would hope not and I'm sure the esports leagues and associations of the world won't be either. I'm sure they all have rules about morality/portsmanship and most likely about machtfixing explicitely. I don't think he would ever dare to try to compete in esports again, but I'm even more sure that nobody will give him the chance. And I think that's good and I definitely don't think YoDa is evil or anything. But he made a huge mistake and has to live with the consuquences and that includes the ones outside of the law. I believe in second chances and YoDa will have his and is free to study or work in any sector he likes. I hope he can bounce back and live a good life in the future. But don't expect him to be able to set foot in esports again and hopefully measures are taken to make sure he can not. I would hope this includes Afreeca, who will be running GSL next year.
Yes, I would be fine with that. He cheated because of a given context and situation, that might not be the same in another eSports.
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On October 21 2015 23:24 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 22:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On October 21 2015 21:36 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The idea that you can become popular through gaming and then throw matches and still use that same popularity and fanbase to continue to earn money does not set a good precedent, as it basically mitigates a lot of the risk of throwing matches. In order to properly motivate people to make the right life decisions getting caught for throwing matches should put people in a lot worse of a situation than never throwing them at all. If these two widely different decisions are too close to each other in value there isn't enough deterrence. I'm really sorry but streaming Afreeca has everything to do with using the popularity gained as a progamer and nothing to do with doing groceries. There's a whole world outside of StarCraft to consider. On what basis can one deny formerly convicted criminals to use products or services they abused in the past? In this case there isn't any legal basis I presume. Only Afreeca can ban these former offenders. They are not doing this because they say they feel they shouldn't give out extra punishment on top of what they already got. One can agree or not but it is, and should be, only their prerogative. Right it is up to Afreeca to decide whether they want to comply with a sports associations request and figure out whether they want to fall within the sports confines or outside of it. However make no mistake the law is one thing, but sports federations oftentimes, and rightfully so, have their own regulation that trumps it. In this case KeSPA is hoping that Afreeca feels they are part of the sports ecosystem instead of outside of it. Afreeca is in their full right to decline this, but IMO it would be nice if they had complied, as I do think streaming services are a huge part of the esports ecosystem. If Lance Armstrong would show up on a bike in TV, should UCI try to protest and ban him from ever appearing with a bike in TV? I think not. Afreeca perhaps can ban them from streaming games (and BTW: which games? IF YoDa streams LoL - would it be OK? WC3? WoW? Witcher3? Or should he be permabanned for streaming anything including playing on a guitar and singing k-pop covers?) but they shouldn't because streaming casual games and competing is just different activity, even if similar in some aspects. Sorry but when you say he shouldn't be allowed to stream SC, it almost sounds like streaming SC is for professional gamers playing SC so when he is kicked out from being professional gamer, he shouldn't be allowed to stream. The only situation I'd agree with banning Yoda and the rest for Afreeca was if Afreeca was solely dedicated as streaming platform for professional gamers. It isn't (AFAIK). EDIT: Worth to point out: Yoda streaming on Afreeca is probably bad for esports (it sounds bad I'm not sure how actually bad it will be) but that doesn't justify him being banned.
The entire point of banning match fixers from appearing on afreeca has less to do with banning them from streaming sc2 (there are very good reasons for this, profitting from crime etc) and more to do with afreeca hosting the most prestigious and historied sc2 tournament.
To go back to your anology, if for whatever reason people started to generate income via streaming themselves riding a bike, and espn got the rights to live stream lance armstrong then yes, there would be a pretty clear conflict of interest.
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On October 22 2015 00:08 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 23:51 juvenal wrote:On October 21 2015 23:35 Oshuy wrote:On October 21 2015 22:43 -Celestial- wrote:On October 21 2015 22:39 Umpteen wrote:
I don't think it's Afreeca's call to make. Afreeca is a private company. They have the right to deny service to anyone for basically any reason they deem appropriate so long as it doesn't violate discrimination laws (racism, sexism, etc). Identifying automatically the content of a given stream sounds technically difficult. Monitoring streaming content manually is impractical. couldn't be any easier: users report if they see your SC2 stream, accumulate 3 (or any certain number) reports for streaming SC2 and you're banned from Afreeca altogether. Yeah, because people totally aren't going to troll-report
afaik you can't create multiple accounts on Afreeca since it uses your personal ID number or something. Troll-report, get banned, enjoy life.
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France9034 Posts
On October 21 2015 19:47 Startyr wrote:
A competitive bob-sleigher once won Olympic gold in the sport that he loved. Everyone looked up to him as something to aspire to. It was later discovered that he put extra weights in the sled to help him go faster, he cheated. The medals were stripped from him and he was banned from ever competing again. In addition to the loss of earnings he then had to live with the shame and humiliation of the world knowing that he was a cheat and liar and he was no longer allowed to compete in the sport that he loved.
Many years later he is approached by a Jamaican sprinter who missed out on the summer Olympics.
The man who was banned from his sport reluctantly ends up becoming the coach and manager for the Jamaican bob-sled team. Although they face a lot of animosity, hatred and prejudice, he manages to lead the team in a story worthy of the Olympic spirit of competition.
Should the bob-sleigher have been allowed to coach the team?
The idea of dishing out more extreme punishments as a means of fixing a system is a powerful one, yet it is at best unproductive and likely acts to further damage the system and distract from the larger issues that really need changed.
Oh that's the story of the movie Cool Runnings. Should be noted that in the real story, the real Jamaica team it's based on had multiple coaches, but none of them was actually a former cheater, IIRC.
I think it's slightly off point, because in this case, the coach doesn't seek self profit. There's a scene in the film where he asks to be punished himself for his wrongdoings, instead of someone else.
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Rumor: Players are reportedly boycotting GSL  Not confirmed but I'll try to find additional info
http://m.sports.naver.com/general/news/read.nhn?oid=442&aid=0000025073
Inven article from former Prime player who is now a reporter. I will translate later and add this on OP.
Thank you for all the feedbacks. You guys have given much to talk about on SGall and are prompting further response from people and are really pulling this topic in depth. General consensus is still agreeing with Kespa though.
Also idk if you guys know Kespa changed a lot with its new head since 2010? Some of info on Kespa does not apply now.
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EPT
