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On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused. Their crime is, in a very real sense, having no integrity. Not every legal consequence of a crime is as direct and parallel to the crime as some people in this thread believe. Streaming SC2 has more in common with competing in SC2 than being a soldier does with being a mailman.
And then you go to blackwater/Xe/howertheynamethemselfs and fight for the US Gouvernement in some war...
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who in their right mind will bet on these players? let them stream, the people betting should be informed.
also don't compare US army and starcraft - many many many leagues apart
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On October 22 2015 04:57 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused. Their crime is, in a very real sense, having no integrity. Not every legal consequence of a crime is as direct and parallel to the crime as some people in this thread believe. Streaming SC2 has more in common with competing in SC2 than being a soldier does with being a mailman. And then you go to blackwater/Xe/howertheynamethemselfs and fight for the US Gouvernement in some war...
Are you suggesting that the entire world wouldn't be better off if the US government DID discriminate against soldiers with spotty records when hiring mercenaries?
I think that if anything, you just made my point for me. :/
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On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused.
Let's not compare instances of things that are explicitly against the law to voluntarily banning by streaming companies. If they were prohibited to stream video games by a court of law, this wouldn't even be an issue. They would be banned.
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I dont understand where the whole controversy is coming from....
We have 4 levels here:
-Law
-Morality
-Social Contract
-Pleasing the fans.
Afreeca only has to do what the LAW says. Nothing more. I would bet that many of the people here who voice their protest against afreeca will still watch streams from afreeca...
So Afreeca bans players who stream in other services... they can do that? If yes, then they will if they want to.
Personally I have bigger fish to fry with my time like bankers, politicians, etc taht deserve far greater attention than a streaming service in my book.
Does that mean I like or agree with what Afreeca is doing? nope.
Do you think Afreeca cares? nope.
Its like all those companies selling crap games for top dollar and DLC, like politicians promising the world for free, like taxes and infaltion stealing money from everyone else....
WE ARE THE ONES THAT PUT UP WITH IT, so stop complaing and do something about it (in this case, dont watch Afreeca streams, if you want to show your objection to their practices).
You want to stop match fixing? how about taking away the incentive? How about imposing a fine that will not be based on jail time but on paying back everyone who lost money because of your match-fixing? (that will get you scared quickly).
How about creating an environment where pro gamers have enough cash / time so that they DONT resort to match fixing as a means of living?
And finally, please... understand that everyone here probably does not even know 20% of what happened, how, why, etc.
We are getting translations of a text that can be not even 100% accurate. It might be propaganda by Kespa or it might be all true, we should be carefull at least in our Judgement when we are so uninformed.
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On October 22 2015 05:00 mishimaBeef wrote:
who in their right mind will bet on these players? let them stream, the people betting should be informed.
also don't compare US army and starcraft - many many many leagues apart
Everything is leagues apart. According to some posters in this thread, streaming SC2 and playing SC2 are leagues apart. Should no one ever compare things to make a point ever again? Or should we always invite you to arbitrate, without providing any explanation, which comparisons are leagues apart and which ones are not?
On topic:
One of the fundamental issues in this thread is legal precedent. Specifically, setting precedent for discriminating against match-fixers. I've demonstrated that legal precedent exists for discriminating against criminals on the basis of their having no integrity on top of the crime they committed. The army isn't even the only place this happens, it was only the first that came to mind.
If you're convicted of a felony in the US, you can't ever get a job as a police officer. In what world is that fair?! The felony you committed had nothing to do with being a police officer! Well, in the eyes of the law, you are now legally a shitstain of a human being, so... too bad, so sad.
I posit that match-fixers, too, are legally decreed ... bad people ... and on that basis have no right to stream SC2 on Afreeca. They can go stream it on youtube if they want.
On October 22 2015 05:09 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused. Let's not compare instances of things that are explicitly against the law to voluntarily banning by streaming companies. If they were prohibited to stream video games by a court of law, this wouldn't even be an issue. They would be banned.
But Afreeca isn't just a streaming company anymore, it now hosts GSL, and is thereby legally beholden to KeSPA which is both a governmental entity and the leading legal SC2 organization on the planet.
There's a difference between saying "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Youtube!" and "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Afreeca!" Some people might believe that they shouldn't be allowed to stream anywhere. I only care about Afreeca.
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141 Posts
On October 22 2015 05:21 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 05:00 mishimaBeef wrote:
who in their right mind will bet on these players? let them stream, the people betting should be informed.
also don't compare US army and starcraft - many many many leagues apart Everything is leagues apart. According to some posters in this thread, streaming SC2 and playing SC2 are leagues apart. Should no one ever compare things to make a point ever again? Or should we always invite you to arbitrate, without providing any explanation, which comparisons are leagues apart and which ones are not? On topic: One of the fundamental issues in this thread is legal precedent. Specifically, setting precedent for discriminating against match-fixers. I've demonstrated that legal precedent exists for discriminating against criminals on the basis of their having no integrity on top of the crime they committed. The army isn't even the only place this happens, it was only the first that came to mind. If you're convicted of a felony in the US, you can't ever get a job as a police officer. In what world is that fair?! The felony you committed had nothing to do with being a police officer! Well, in the eyes of the law, you are now legally a shitstain of a human being, so... too bad, so sad. I posit that match-fixers, too, are legally decreed ... bad people ... and on that basis have no right to stream SC2 on Afreeca. They can go stream it on youtube if they want.
Oh you can just cite one of the most infamous match-fixing incidents in sports history. The Chicago Black Sox Scandal and its aftermath is all you need.
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no everything is not leagues apart
take these 3 things: streaming sc2, playing sc2 and serving in the US army
k you do the rest.
anyways, does kespa have a legal basis or not? if they do, then it will be settled in court. if they don't they can take their bratty selves and go find something else to do.
also the law is blind bro so in the eyes of the law, no. "shitstain of a human being" oh boy
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On October 22 2015 05:21 pure.Wasted wrote:[ Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 05:09 TheWinks wrote:On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused. Let's not compare instances of things that are explicitly against the law to voluntarily banning by streaming companies. If they were prohibited to stream video games by a court of law, this wouldn't even be an issue. They would be banned. But Afreeca isn't just a streaming company anymore, it now hosts GSL, and is thereby legally beholden to KeSPA which is both a governmental entity and the leading legal SC2 organization on the planet. There's a difference between saying "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Youtube!" and "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Afreeca!" Some people might believe that they shouldn't be allowed to stream anywhere. I only care about Afreeca.
Legally beholden? The fact that Afreeca can say no makes it pretty obvious that they are not. Twitch and Azubu are banning streaming by request from kespa. They have no legal obligation to do so even as official streamers for the Korean tournaments.
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On October 22 2015 05:42 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 05:21 pure.Wasted wrote:[ On October 22 2015 05:09 TheWinks wrote:On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused. Let's not compare instances of things that are explicitly against the law to voluntarily banning by streaming companies. If they were prohibited to stream video games by a court of law, this wouldn't even be an issue. They would be banned. But Afreeca isn't just a streaming company anymore, it now hosts GSL, and is thereby legally beholden to KeSPA which is both a governmental entity and the leading legal SC2 organization on the planet. There's a difference between saying "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Youtube!" and "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Afreeca!" Some people might believe that they shouldn't be allowed to stream anywhere. I only care about Afreeca. Legally beholden? The fact that Afreeca can say no makes it pretty obvious that they are not. Twitch and Azubu are banning streaming by request from kespa. They have no legal obligation to do so even as official streamers for the Korean tournaments.
Well, maybe someone (Korean) can shed some light on this issue... my understanding was that KeSPA, being a government entity and a governing entity for SC2, has the right to invent regulations that concern eSports. So while today this was a request - the same way that a police officer might first request to search your premises, while his warrant is still being processed - given Afreeca's non-compliance, I don't see what stops it from being a new regulation tomorrow.
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On October 22 2015 05:48 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 05:42 TheWinks wrote:On October 22 2015 05:21 pure.Wasted wrote:[ On October 22 2015 05:09 TheWinks wrote:On October 22 2015 04:53 pure.Wasted wrote:On October 22 2015 04:43 mishimaBeef wrote:
you can't match fix on a stream - that is not the point of a stream - it is to be an entertainment of sorts, not a competition
thus, i see these two in separate categories:
- banning from competitions
- banning from streaming
When a US soldier is dishonorably discharged, they are not simply thrown out of the army, they are actually "banned" from ever working for the US government in any capacity ever again. Why? Because their crime is bigger than the specific thing of which they stand accused. Let's not compare instances of things that are explicitly against the law to voluntarily banning by streaming companies. If they were prohibited to stream video games by a court of law, this wouldn't even be an issue. They would be banned. But Afreeca isn't just a streaming company anymore, it now hosts GSL, and is thereby legally beholden to KeSPA which is both a governmental entity and the leading legal SC2 organization on the planet. There's a difference between saying "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Youtube!" and "match-fixers can't stream SC2 on Afreeca!" Some people might believe that they shouldn't be allowed to stream anywhere. I only care about Afreeca. Legally beholden? The fact that Afreeca can say no makes it pretty obvious that they are not. Twitch and Azubu are banning streaming by request from kespa. They have no legal obligation to do so even as official streamers for the Korean tournaments. Well, maybe someone (Korean) can shed some light on this issue... my understanding was that KeSPA, being a government entity and a governing entity for SC2, has the right to invent regulations that concern eSports. So while today this was a request - the same way that a police officer might first request to search your premises, while his warrant is still being processed - given Afreeca's non-compliance, I don't see what stops it from being a new regulation tomorrow.
A gouvernment board does not stand over the laws of the state nor does it make these laws as this is object in most states of the parliament. Also setting certain rules cant reach into the deepest of companys buisnes decisions. Other then public "demand" or "pressure", the kespa has no legal means to enforce Afreeca to take down the one matchfixing streamer.
If they had, we would have never heared about this issue in public, at least what i learned from korea.
And thus kespa uses the society to obtain pressure on Afreeca and gain PR points on the cost of a company that has nothing to do with recent matchfixing nor the one streamer, who matchfixed over 5 years ago.
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On October 22 2015 05:00 mishimaBeef wrote:
many many many leagues apart
"leagues"... Amen brother. What league do we qualify them? :D
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Added article a former Prime team member (ClassicPrime) wrote to OP. Wonder what was going through his mind but don't wanna know
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On October 21 2015 10:22 Djzapz wrote:
I think that's ridiculous. There's a disconnect between professional games and streaming. Should Lance Armstrong be banned from buying broccoli at the supermarket? If the privately owned enterprise decides to let people continue something that arguably has nothing to do with competitive play, it's their choice.
It's funny how people have this mentality that someone caught doing something bad should be automatically shunned or even shamed in every area of life. He's banned from competitive play, if he wants to stream, let him stream, what even is the link...
And FYI I was extremely critical of YoDa and Gerrard in previous posts of mine, but there's no need to fucking hang them, how much blood do you need?
The point is they're still profiting off of something they took advantage of. The fact of the matter is Afreecatv sponsors professional leagues at the same time, so there's a contradiction there in terms of fair play. Doesn't stop those BJs from trying to do it elsewhere.
This isn't about hanging a person or frigging murder as you guys keep trying to describe. Stop the over exaggerations. Call it as is.
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On October 22 2015 08:44 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 10:22 Djzapz wrote:
I think that's ridiculous. There's a disconnect between professional games and streaming. Should Lance Armstrong be banned from buying broccoli at the supermarket? If the privately owned enterprise decides to let people continue something that arguably has nothing to do with competitive play, it's their choice.
It's funny how people have this mentality that someone caught doing something bad should be automatically shunned or even shamed in every area of life. He's banned from competitive play, if he wants to stream, let him stream, what even is the link...
And FYI I was extremely critical of YoDa and Gerrard in previous posts of mine, but there's no need to fucking hang them, how much blood do you need? The point is they're still profiting off of something they took advantage of. The fact of the matter is Afreecatv sponsors professional leagues at the same time, so there's a contradiction there in terms of fair play. Doesn't stop those BJs from trying to do it elsewhere. This isn't about hanging a person or frigging murder as you guys keep trying to describe. Stop the over exaggerations. Call it as is.
They didn't take advantage of streaming, they took advantage of the gambling scene in the competitive side of things. Every explanation about the link between competitive play and streaming has been shaky at best. Frankly all you've got is "they do it too". Irrelevant. Is one an accessory to the other? Hardly. Does streaming make them more likely to participate in such a scheme again? Definitely not.
In Counter-Strike, the people who were caught matchfixing are disgraced but they're not banned from twitch. Much fewer people watch them because they're viewed negatively. I don't think anyone is worried about CSGO having lost credibility in a big way because the issues are ALL about the competitive aspect. The people found guilty of anticompetitive behaviour are no longer competing. CSGO is faring much better than SC2. Hell hasn't blown over. The streamers aren't breaking anything. Case closed.
I continue to say that the reaction is emotional and has no basis in any defensible notion of justice. People don't want matchfixers to be on Afreeca because they're angry and they make up BS reasons to justify it. Seems to me like the streaming platform and the sponsorships are separate. Furthermore didn't KESPA ask Twitch KR to prevent those players from using their platform? Doesn't seem to me like they're really able to use other platforms. It seems to me like the corps and the people are piling on to prevent those guys to make a living. The point is to make them hurt, nothing else. It's angry people with pitchforks.
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Poland3747 Posts
On October 22 2015 01:03 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 00:56 nimdil wrote:On October 22 2015 00:24 bo1b wrote:On October 21 2015 23:24 nimdil wrote:On October 21 2015 22:16 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On October 21 2015 21:36 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 21:19 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
The idea that you can become popular through gaming and then throw matches and still use that same popularity and fanbase to continue to earn money does not set a good precedent, as it basically mitigates a lot of the risk of throwing matches. In order to properly motivate people to make the right life decisions getting caught for throwing matches should put people in a lot worse of a situation than never throwing them at all. If these two widely different decisions are too close to each other in value there isn't enough deterrence. I'm really sorry but streaming Afreeca has everything to do with using the popularity gained as a progamer and nothing to do with doing groceries. There's a whole world outside of StarCraft to consider. On what basis can one deny formerly convicted criminals to use products or services they abused in the past? In this case there isn't any legal basis I presume. Only Afreeca can ban these former offenders. They are not doing this because they say they feel they shouldn't give out extra punishment on top of what they already got. One can agree or not but it is, and should be, only their prerogative. Right it is up to Afreeca to decide whether they want to comply with a sports associations request and figure out whether they want to fall within the sports confines or outside of it. However make no mistake the law is one thing, but sports federations oftentimes, and rightfully so, have their own regulation that trumps it. In this case KeSPA is hoping that Afreeca feels they are part of the sports ecosystem instead of outside of it. Afreeca is in their full right to decline this, but IMO it would be nice if they had complied, as I do think streaming services are a huge part of the esports ecosystem. If Lance Armstrong would show up on a bike in TV, should UCI try to protest and ban him from ever appearing with a bike in TV? I think not. Afreeca perhaps can ban them from streaming games (and BTW: which games? IF YoDa streams LoL - would it be OK? WC3? WoW? Witcher3? Or should he be permabanned for streaming anything including playing on a guitar and singing k-pop covers?) but they shouldn't because streaming casual games and competing is just different activity, even if similar in some aspects. Sorry but when you say he shouldn't be allowed to stream SC, it almost sounds like streaming SC is for professional gamers playing SC so when he is kicked out from being professional gamer, he shouldn't be allowed to stream. The only situation I'd agree with banning Yoda and the rest for Afreeca was if Afreeca was solely dedicated as streaming platform for professional gamers. It isn't (AFAIK). EDIT: Worth to point out: Yoda streaming on Afreeca is probably bad for esports (it sounds bad I'm not sure how actually bad it will be) but that doesn't justify him being banned. The entire point of banning match fixers from appearing on afreeca has less to do with banning them from streaming sc2 (there are very good reasons for this, profitting from crime etc) and more to do with afreeca hosting the most prestigious and historied sc2 tournament. To go back to your anology, if for whatever reason people started to generate income via streaming themselves riding a bike, and espn got the rights to live stream lance armstrong then yes, there would be a pretty clear conflict of interest. ESPN is sports TV channel while Afreeca is not exclusively esports streaming service. So to make your point more appropriate: 80% of ESPN is owned by Walt Disney. Could Lance Armstrong live stream biking on any other Walt Disney owned TV channel? Because I'm sure Yoda won't stream on Afreeca platform through GSL channel. You don't think that's slightly disingenuous? In the context of this discussion Afreeca is certainly known as primarily an esports streaming service (to be frank I had never investigated what else Afreeca had streamed, though thats more on me), and espn is almost always recognised as a sports tv channel before being recognised as a channel under the umbrella of Walt Disney. However, back to the anology, would you not consider a more accurate comparison something like: Lance Armstrong streaming on espn 4 is equivalent to Yoda streaming on afreeca.yoda.com (I confess I don't really know how they structure there website). That said this is still a fairly incomplete comparison. This is probably the last I'm going to respond to right now, it's 3am and I'm tired. I'll respond tomorrow if theres more.
Well I don't watch ESPN 1 or 4 so I'm not sure but I assume ESPN4 is still about sports (or s.t. esports). If that's the case that no, I don't think.
Yes, Afreeca is on TL mostly known for esports and progamers streams but AFAIK it's not exclusively esports or even gaming. There are music channels, there are animations etc. So I think my analogy more or less holds, though admittedly ESPN probably is less visible as Walt Disney TV channel then different Afreeca TV channels. Also it holds also on the other side, as while Yoda definitely has higher (note that it's "higher", not "any") viewership thanks to his progaming past, Lance Armstrong would probably never be invited to any TV if not for his dope-based "successes".
That said, I'm not sure if he should be even be banned from "gaming" section of Afreeca unless gaming means esports at this place.
Banning him is just shady reasoning (well, I just didn't see any good argument to the contrary) and it's mostly from the position of what esport fans/professionals would desire.
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On October 21 2015 11:00 kchany2 wrote:
You foreigners just dont care because you dont really care about starcraft.
Should these criminals be banned from buying groceries? Definetely not. Should these match fixers be ever banned from starcraft? Definetely so, u retards.
Let's take a look at other sports. If a soccer player is caught match fixing, he is not allowed to get jobs related to soccer ever again. He should find another job.
And these match fix streamers should at least not stream on starcraft. I hope all of you would be happy if a guy who commited a sexual crime stream playing around with teenage girls.
You get my point? It's not like we should kill match fixers. But they should at least be stopped from getting profits with starcraft, the very game he damaged so heavily.
You guys just don't care the fuck about this issue because you are living thousands of miles away and are not really related to all this stuff. Korean esports scene almost went on destruction the last time match fixing happened, and lot of hard-working people lost their job. It's totally fair for innocent people to be banned from the scene and criminals to stay on this scene to earn money, right???? I see your point^^
And don't tell me esports and streaming is different issue. I'll be pissed off to hell. They're fucking playing the same game and getting profits out of it. Like I've said, ex-soccer player caught match fixing is even banned from teaching soccer to kids or in anyway earn money with soccer. Oh, you really dont consider esports as sports, right? So be it. We Koreans DO want esports to be sports and wont allow it.
User was warned for this post
I'm going against you on this one; primarily on the basis that comparing match-fixers to sex offenders is borderline moronic and is not a healthy viewpoint. These are people who accepted lucrative bribes from illegal brokers to manipulate the results of SC2 games, not people who robbed the innocence of a minor and left them emotionally and psychologically scarred as a result.
A match-fixer no longer getting a job within the soccer industry (either as a coach, manager, or otherwise) is unsurprising, since the entire industry as a whole is practically overseen by FIFA.
However, let's say a world-renowned soccer player is implicated in a match-fixing scandal and then permanently banned from playing soccer competitively and is then blacklisted by FIFA.
Then - because he has a criminal record, has been internationally shamed in the media, and is now practically unemployable because anybody viewing his job application and resumé will instantly judge him as a man of questionable character and shred his application - he turns to the only thing he is skilled in, and tries to make amends by creating video channels on YouTube, DailyMotion and Vimeo where he teaches people how to do nifty tricks and improve their soccer game.
Do FIFA suddenly have the right to wave their huge corporate dick around at Google, Dailymotion and Vimeo - demanding that they too blacklist this guy and prevent him from ever earning any revenue on their platform?
Because this is EXACTLY what KeSPA and the anti-matchfixer crowd over in Korea are trying to push for.
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It all seems strange to me - the figures involved in the scandal amounted to a few thousand US dollars (right?), which is a ludicruously tiny amount of money to risk legal sanctions and losing a career for. It seems that either the dudes involved were idiots, or that match fixing actually happens a lot.
If the latter is true, then the only way to fix it is to get good at detecting it. Breathing fire about the few unlucky enough to get caught will not fix anything. If the former is true, then what is anyone worried about? Either way, the people responsible have already received consequences and pressing for more just doesn't seem productive.
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On October 22 2015 09:45 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 11:00 kchany2 wrote:
You foreigners just dont care because you dont really care about starcraft.
Should these criminals be banned from buying groceries? Definetely not. Should these match fixers be ever banned from starcraft? Definetely so, u retards.
Let's take a look at other sports. If a soccer player is caught match fixing, he is not allowed to get jobs related to soccer ever again. He should find another job.
And these match fix streamers should at least not stream on starcraft. I hope all of you would be happy if a guy who commited a sexual crime stream playing around with teenage girls.
You get my point? It's not like we should kill match fixers. But they should at least be stopped from getting profits with starcraft, the very game he damaged so heavily.
You guys just don't care the fuck about this issue because you are living thousands of miles away and are not really related to all this stuff. Korean esports scene almost went on destruction the last time match fixing happened, and lot of hard-working people lost their job. It's totally fair for innocent people to be banned from the scene and criminals to stay on this scene to earn money, right???? I see your point^^
And don't tell me esports and streaming is different issue. I'll be pissed off to hell. They're fucking playing the same game and getting profits out of it. Like I've said, ex-soccer player caught match fixing is even banned from teaching soccer to kids or in anyway earn money with soccer. Oh, you really dont consider esports as sports, right? So be it. We Koreans DO want esports to be sports and wont allow it.
User was warned for this post I'm going against you on this one; primarily on the basis that comparing match-fixers to sex offenders is borderline moronic and is not a healthy viewpoint. These are people who accepted lucrative bribes from illegal brokers to manipulate the results of SC2 games, not people who robbed the innocence of a minor and left them emotionally and psychologically scarred as a result. A match-fixer no longer getting a job within the soccer industry (either as a coach, manager, or otherwise) is unsurprising, since the entire industry as a whole is practically overseen by FIFA. However, let's say a world-renowned soccer player is implicated in a match-fixing scandal and then permanently banned from playing soccer competitively and is then blacklisted by FIFA. Then - because he has a criminal record, has been internationally shamed in the media, and is now practically unemployable because anybody viewing his job application and resumé will instantly judge him as a man of questionable character and shred his application - he turns to the only thing he is skilled in, and tries to make amends by creating video channels on YouTube, DailyMotion and Vimeo where he teaches people how to do nifty tricks and improve their soccer game. Do FIFA suddenly have the right to wave their huge corporate dick around at Google, Dailymotion and Vimeo - demanding that they too blacklist this guy and prevent him from ever earning any revenue on their platform? Because this is EXACTLY what KeSPA and the anti-matchfixer crowd over in Korea are trying to push for.
1. There are options for matchfixers to go for, and matchfixers who try to live a new life are actually respected(i.e. DarkElf). Hwasin had very good opinion and was constantly compared in Savior's streams because he said he regretted everything and said he will not insult the SCBW scene any further by making money off of a game he helped destroy.
Psych, he came back. He just betrayed his believers. Again. Wow.
2. Matchfixers are not trying to make any amends to the scene by streaming videos. Helpful tips? Savior asked his fanclub to donate him a CD Key because he illegally downloaded starcraft and had non. He then publicly says he made no mistake at all because"I didn't matchfix. I just helped the matchfixers contact my teammates and suggested that they should matchfix." That's not making amends, that just beating up somebody and selling the video of them getting beaten up.
3. Vimeo, Google, and Dailymotion don't host the next World Cup.
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Thank you for the translation
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EPT
