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On October 20 2015 19:26 sagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst.
So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation.
What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath.  I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ? It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link
Apparently i can't watch it. Or maybe i didn't understand what you meant.
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On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote:
I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions.
I don't think we'll hear anything from Maru. First of all he does not care and his time in Prime was way before any match fixing. MK will stay quiet as well since anything he'd say would be twisted in million ways.
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On October 20 2015 20:01 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 19:26 sagi wrote:On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst.
So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation.
What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath. I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ? It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link Apparently i can't watch it. Or maybe i didn't understand what you meant.
Works for me. Wolf basically says there are other big names being thrown around but they won't tell us till it's 100% because they don't want the angry mob ruining people's lives. Makes sense to me.
That Jinro vs Hongun match though.... xD
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On October 20 2015 20:05 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 20:01 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 19:26 sagi wrote:On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst.
So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation.
What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath. I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ? It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link Apparently i can't watch it. Or maybe i didn't understand what you meant. Works for me. Wolf basically says there are other big names being thrown around but they won't tell us till it's 100% because they don't want the angry mob ruining people's lives. Makes sense to me. That Jinro vs Hongun match though.... xD
Oh okay. Well i hope it's going to stop here and that no other people will be arrested and found guilty. Especially big names.
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Banning people for life is stupid.
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On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote:
Banning people for life is stupid.
Wanna explain why ?
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On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote:
Banning people for life is stupid.
It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it.
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I feel really bad for TOP after reading his comment. Best of luck to him for LotV.
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Of the three names that have been released, the only one I feel actually angry towards is Gerrard. He was the authority figure and gave his players the opportunity (or even pressure) to do this. Even though they made the wrong choice, I can at least empathize with the players and the situation they were in.
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"Because of all that's happened today, I'm going to shut off my phone and just go get drunk (spits)."
Best line! That's what my reaction would have been. haha.
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Wow, TOP and MC's posts were hard to read. Both of them had super close friends that betrayed them and match fixed.
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On October 20 2015 22:46 FFW_Rude wrote:Wanna explain why ?
On October 20 2015 22:50 ThorPool wrote:It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it.
I am big mma fan, and nobody in mma bans anyone for life, for cheating. Except Wanderlei Silva, but this story have not ended yet, he continues to fight courts and he did not get banned for cheating. MMA is a barbaric and very dangerous sport. If this sport does not ban cheaters for life I don't think anyone should. Second we all are human beings and we all done some crazy shit in our life.
I am not saying SC2 is less sport, I think sc2 is big balls sport and is very hard game just to learn basics, and its far more harder to get to grand master, and incredible difficult to win some tournament in Korea. You either winner or you get nothing
Match fixing is horrible shit, they were definitely deserved to get penalty
But in the end of the day progamers are competitors, I don't think that majority of progamers are competing for money. They can easily do something else and get paid more.
I think all of this scandal sinners were scared of publicity rather to get ban.They got disposed, in a whole SC community, and even if something would allow them to compete, and Yoda by being fair and honest would win every blizzcon grand finals, this scandal would still chase them for their entire legacy.
I would say suspend him for year or two, and get done with it. I doubt anyone would come back after 2 years anyway
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On October 21 2015 00:21 Chant1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:46 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote:
Banning people for life is stupid. Wanna explain why ? Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:50 ThorPool wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote:
Banning people for life is stupid. It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it. I am big mma fan, and nobody in mma bans anyone for life, for cheating. Except Wanderlei Silva, but this story have not ended yet, he continues to fight courts and he did not get banned for cheating. MMA is a barbaric and very dangerous sport. If this sport does not ban cheaters for life I don't think anyone should. Second we all are human beings and we all done some crazy shit in our life. I am not saying SC2 is less sport, I think sc2 is big balls sport and is very hard game just to learn basics, and its far more harder to get to grand master, and incredible difficult to win some tournament in Korea. You either winner or you get nothing Match fixing is horrible shit, they were definitely deserved to get penalty But in the end of the day progamers are competitors, I don't think that majority of progamers are competing for money. They can easily do something else and get paid more. I think all of this scandal sinners were scared of publicity rather to get ban.They got disposed, in a whole SC community, and even if something would allow them to compete, and Yoda by being fair and honest would win every blizzcon grand finals, this scandal would still chase them for their entire legacy. I would say suspend him for year or two, and get done with it. I doubt anyone would come back after 2 years anyway
Progammer is a job. Especially in Korea. And you never like to work for free. Of course they play for the money. It's their job. I love my job. I really do. But i sure won't do it for free.
And i don't think they can "easily do something else".
When you say "i doubt anyone would come back after 2 years". Well why are you upset with a life ban then ?
I don't know MMA so i can't comment on that. But i would find fair that a fighter that got down because he bet against himself would get really harsh punishment.
And it's Korea. Asian nations are big on respect and elitist as fuck. (i might pull that one out of my ass though as i am no professional in asian culture).
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Wow I get warned for making a joking. Go fuck yourself TL
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 21 2015 00:21 Chant1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:46 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote:
Banning people for life is stupid. Wanna explain why ? Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:50 ThorPool wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote:
Banning people for life is stupid. It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it. I am big mma fan, and nobody in mma bans anyone for life, for cheating. Except Wanderlei Silva, but this story have not ended yet, he continues to fight courts and he did not get banned for cheating. MMA is a barbaric and very dangerous sport. If this sport does not ban cheaters for life I don't think anyone should. Second we all are human beings and we all done some crazy shit in our life. I am not saying SC2 is less sport, I think sc2 is big balls sport and is very hard game just to learn basics, and its far more harder to get to grand master, and incredible difficult to win some tournament in Korea. You either winner or you get nothing Match fixing is horrible shit, they were definitely deserved to get penalty But in the end of the day progamers are competitors, I don't think that majority of progamers are competing for money. They can easily do something else and get paid more. I think all of this scandal sinners were scared of publicity rather to get ban.They got disposed, in a whole SC community, and even if something would allow them to compete, and Yoda by being fair and honest would win every blizzcon grand finals, this scandal would still chase them for their entire legacy. I would say suspend him for year or two, and get done with it. I doubt anyone would come back after 2 years anyway
It's the appearence of it though, it's the same reason Baseball banned Pete Rose, it's why boxing died outside of one or two fighters, it's why the Savior matchfixing scandal basically killed BW. Once you start to question the integrity of the game/sport what point is there to watch anything? Like if to take an example Ryung made a hot run in GSL and make the round of 4, if this got big would you say a great underdog story or "the fix is in". Some will believe always, many won't. That's why life bans are made.
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On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote:
Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
These are words of wisdom. The SC2-Scene could need more of this.
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On October 20 2015 09:48 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:48 Obamarauder wrote:On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote:
I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions. maru probably doesn't care. does he care about anything? his little sister. Thats about it.
Maru is a family man. To him, everyone else is trash. Like Creator.
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I'm not sure I understand why people praise MC or TOP for complaining publicly about beeing betrayed by their friends. Isn't it something personal that should be dealt with in private? After reading their posts it almost seems to me they just try to get some attention by throwing stones at people already down.
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On October 20 2015 10:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote:
Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
To be honest I have a hard time being mad at them. Of course they fucked up and of course they have to pay for it (and they will) but they ended in a situation where they were doing their job without getting paid and they couldn't reach anyone for help because there is no player union. The smartest choice would have been to leave Prime and disclose what was going on with the team. They chose the wrong path unfortunately because some shady guys had a shitton of money to offer but unlike sAviOr who did it purely by greed (if I understand correctly), YoDa and B4 have a lot more extenuating circumstances.
I have rather mixed feelings, mostly so when considering YoDa's total prize money earnings ( http://aligulac.com/players/54-YoDa/earnings/ ). $100,000 prize winnings plus etc earnings over the course of 4 years isn't substantial but is certainly enough to sustain ones self and is much greater success than many other players have seen. From the sounds of it, his cost of living was even being covered by MC for a long period of time.
However 2015 has obviously been very bleak for YoDa financially and Prime was such a disaster with a corrupt and thieving coach at the head of it. To end up in that situation after past years of success in earnings and easier living, the mind can take an uncontrollable dark turn.
A truly honorable person in YoDa's position wouldn't have succumbed to this, but likely, many ordinary people would find themselves doing the same thing he did if the situation were actually desperate enough. Honor can quickly fade when you're surrounded by corruption that's dragging you down and warping your perception. When you're being screwed over and thieved by your coach, your team is in rock bottom, and your constantly being harassed by brokers offering easy opportunities to make money during a time where you need it most, almost anyone could crack.
In the end we don't know the full details of these peoples lives or situations to be able to make absolute judgments of their characters (excluding Gerrard who IMO has done enough to reveal himself). I agree with YoDa being banned from Proleague and believe he should stop competing in SC2 all together if he's not already when there's such a stigma around him now; no matter what there will be a level of animosity involved in any tournament he plays in. I do not hate on him for his mistakes though.
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The thought that there obviously still are straight-up and honorable progamers out there comforts me. But then I think about all the match-fixing casting doubts on them and destroying the game and their livehood  .
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EPT
