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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Choya: (translated by Seeker) (original)
Before we got the FXO sponsor, I invested so much into living expenses. After FXO decided to no longer sponsor us, the first thing I worried about was not the money that had been spent but my players' futures. These guys believed in me for three years and went through so much. When I asked them what we should do now that we would no longer have FXO as a sponsor, they told me that they would much rather see the team disband than see me spend any more money for their sake. So we decided to disband but even then I didn't even think about what I had to do from there on out, but rather I cared more about getting my players to new teams and finishing things off at the team house. I even stayed an extra month at the team house to ensure everything was taken care of properly. Every eSF head coach that saw his team disband probably went through similar situations. The only teams that ended up surviving were MVP and IM.
How can a person who calls himself a head coach that didn't pay his players a salary for four years while Prime was operational, all of a sudden think it's okay to get his players involved in match-fixing just because he found himself in too much debt? Does that make sense? As it turns out, it wasn't just baseless accusations floating around that Prime was match-fixing, since the head coach himself was behind it all... I don't know how much you made off of this scandal but I hope to never see you again. I hope you waste away all that money earned through another position. Because of all that's happened today, I'm going to shut off my phone and just go get drunk (spits).
(original)
Choya says MVP will fully participate in any kind of investigation. Choya wants everyone to know no one in MVP is involved. (translated by egernya) (original)Please stop mentioning our players. They are still playing. If you ever heard any match fixing rumors on them, please report to the police, so they can be investigated. MK vs Byul match had already been investigated, and it gave him a trauma, so he couldn't play for proleague after that. Please, don't blame our players just because we are not one of those teams owned by huge companies. And I think you guys forgot, but MK has earned more than 200k, you all know he used to be a top level player. Please stop blaming with just suspicion.
TOP: (original)
I wanted to write something regarding the matchfixing scadnal that broke out recently.
Ever since about 5 months ago I started getting requests to throw games from a broker, the broker informed me that he's already been hired by a team in proleague. He tempted me with lines like "just fix this one game and you'll be playing more regularly in proleague, earn a ton of money", etc.
I didn't want to earn money that way, I would've rather died from starving than do such a thing so I told him to stop contacting me.
I've been put in a shit mood ever since, I felt uncomfortable and the thought didn't leave my mind to have someone like that chasing you. I've spoken to multiple Korean pros and they've also told me that there was a broker on their ass -- harassing them non stop.
One of the people cheering me up was BboongBboong and reinsured me that Prime wouldn't be related to such an act. But today I wake up to find out otherwise, I was so shocked I couldn't even think about it for a moment. He even came over to my house after talking about it and we contacted regularly, he used to say he misses me a lot.
To find out I've been tricked by one of my best friends for such a long time is going to leave as a permenent scar to me.
On top of this a few brokers have been actively harassing me and my family because I've refused to fix their games for lotus league. On top of this, I'm still not clear of suspecion. I've had 3-4 offers so far and I've declined them all in a heart beat, I don't want to earn money that way and would never do it because of the respect I have for the community, my integrity, fans and everyone else involved.
Please stop accusing players because a scandal breaks out, it hurts us (players) more than what we already have to deal with.
I'm not very good anymore, I don't have a team either but I'm trying my best to return to LotV. I'll continue to try my best, thank you
MC: (translated by Waxangel) (original)
I haven't lived with Gerrard or talked to him a lot, so I won't say anything about him.
But YoDa, he was one of my gamer colleagues who I felt closest to, so I'm writing this.
I am in no way defending him. I'm just writing my feelings on this incident.
I first met YoDa when I moved into the IM team house.
I thought he was just an ordinary guy who liked games, so I treated him well like I do with all of the younger players, and we slowly grew more friendly.
After I left the IM team house, YoDa and First also left.
YoDa said he couldn't continue being a gamer from his own home, so he asked me if he could live with me.
Well, living by myself was lonely for me, so I brought him in, fed him and gave him a place to sleep, and we lived together for a year that way.
Then, a good opportunity came up in Germany, so I took those two and headed to the house in Germany, and we lived there for yet another year. Our friendship grew deeper and we had a lot of good memories.
We split up when we returned to Korea this year. I ended up deciding to retire, and I wished them luck going forward.
So I went to YoDa's games to cheer him on...
I still remember, when he first became suspected of fixing matches.
Him telling me it wasn't true, that it wasn't fair, with tears in his eyes.
So I didn't believe it was true.
Think about it. A kid you've lived with for 3 years, someone who might as well be your actual brother, crying and saying it's unjust. Who wouldn't believe him?
After that, before the news stories came out, I heard from colleagues around me that he had been taken to the police station.
I tried in every possible way to contact YoDa, but I wasn't able to contact him, nor his family.
Mmmm.... I guess the last time I saw him in my life was at a gathering with the people who lived together in Germany.
Well, I believed him until the very end. What hurts most is that he betrayed and deceived his fellow gamers, and me, who thought of him as a younger brother.
If it was some other crime, some accident, I would have tried to protect him.
But for a progamer to lose on purpose in a match,
That's the most shameful thing in the world.
I want to say something to the people who arrange the match-fixing, the people who are thinking about it.
A true gamer makes his money by winning.
As a gamer, I've never had the slightest thought of losing on purpose.
I'm not even a progamer now, just someone who streams on the internet. But as someone who was once friends with YoDa and was active as a StarCraft 2 progamer,
On their behalf, I want to offer my deepest apologies to fans of esports and fans of StarCraft 2 who were hurt by this.
Seed: (translated by Seeker) (original)
Seed says that in 2014-2015, he's earned a total of $10,000 but he has never wanted to participate in matchfixing. He doesn't understand the mindset of people who do.
CranK: (original)
That's why many ppl in Korea lose their passion as a pro in sc2 scene and also retire. It's really frustrating. Who knows if there is more?
Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi)
All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his).
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
If there are any other notable responses post them up in here and I'll add them to the OP.
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If it is humanly possible my man crush for Choya just grew.
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man MC's post is super depressing
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I wonder if ByuN will come out about the allegations that Gerrard sold his computer without his knowledge.
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I felt bad for ToP's post...
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Unlike Gerrard, I always knew Choya was on the up and up
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Not surprising they've been trying to harass players matchfix in LOTUS, even Gravity's Fight Night was contacted by some sketchy korean "sponsor". Wanted to have his player in the match, demanded to be an observer or no deal, ect. It's crazy the lengths these people are going to.
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Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
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I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions.
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I feel so bad for the SC2 pros who are trying their hardest to focus and perform when all this crap is going on around them. Whatever disappointment, heartbreak, or betrayal fans might feel, pro players must feel a thousand times more. I hope the community doesn't fall into a witch hunt mentality (leave that to the official investigation), but rather shows their support for the scene in these trying times.
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On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions. I never even understood what was up with that. What was the story, did they matchfix or what? I just heard comments here and there, but never found a newsstory about it
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On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions.
Why Maru? Because he used to be on PRIME?
Translation please?
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On October 20 2015 09:17 Psychonian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions. Why Maru? Because he used to be on PRIME? Yes, because they were both long time Prime players.
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Translation please?[/QUOTE]
Roughly translates to "tsk tsk", it's a Korean emote when you pity someone
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Choya always came across as this Evil, Crazy, Dark Knight kinda guy (don't mean that in a bad way btw lol) but after reading the above...The Dude's got a heart of gold. Massive respect for him as a person and a coach.
Re: TOP - totally feel for this guy. I hope he finds some form and gets picked up in LotV. Seems to have a very good character.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On October 20 2015 09:38 CometNine wrote: Choya always came across as this Evil, Crazy, Dark Knight kinda guy (don't mean that in a bad way btw lol) but after reading the above...The Dude's got a heart of gold. Massive respect for him as a person and a coach.
Re: TOP - totally feel for this guy. I hope he finds some form and gets picked up in LotV. Seems to have a very good character.
Choya was batman
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On October 20 2015 09:39 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:38 CometNine wrote: Choya always came across as this Evil, Crazy, Dark Knight kinda guy (don't mean that in a bad way btw lol) but after reading the above...The Dude's got a heart of gold. Massive respect for him as a person and a coach.
Re: TOP - totally feel for this guy. I hope he finds some form and gets picked up in LotV. Seems to have a very good character. Choya was batman Choya is the hero we need, not the hero we deserve.
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On October 20 2015 09:43 20-Minute-Jackal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:39 stuchiu wrote:On October 20 2015 09:38 CometNine wrote: Choya always came across as this Evil, Crazy, Dark Knight kinda guy (don't mean that in a bad way btw lol) but after reading the above...The Dude's got a heart of gold. Massive respect for him as a person and a coach.
Re: TOP - totally feel for this guy. I hope he finds some form and gets picked up in LotV. Seems to have a very good character. Choya was batman Choya is the hero we need, not the hero we deserve.
There are no heroes. There is only Choya. Choya is the Way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life.
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On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions.
maru probably doesn't care. does he care about anything?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On October 20 2015 09:48 Obamarauder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions. maru probably doesn't care. does he care about anything?
his little sister. Thats about it.
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As usual the zerg's stay quiet so we can't learn the truth that every zerg loss has been a throw because the race is unbeatable.
User was warned for this post
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On October 20 2015 09:48 Obamarauder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions. maru probably doesn't care. does he care about anything?
MKP's reaction would be akin to this "Fuck all of you"
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On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote: Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
To be honest I have a hard time being mad at them. Of course they fucked up and of course they have to pay for it (and they will) but they ended in a situation where they were doing their job without getting paid and they couldn't reach anyone for help because there is no player union. The smartest choice would have been to leave Prime and disclose what was going on with the team. They chose the wrong path unfortunately because some shady guys had a shitton of money to offer but unlike sAviOr who did it purely by greed (if I understand correctly), YoDa and B4 have a lot more extenuating circumstances.
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On October 20 2015 10:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote: Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
To be honest I have a hard time being mad at them. Of course they fucked up and of course they have to pay for it (and they will) but they ended in a situation where they were doing their job without getting paid and they couldn't reach anyone for help because there is no player union. The smartest choice would have been to leave Prime and disclose what was going on with the team. They chose the wrong path unfortunately because some shady guys had a shitton of money to offer but unlike sAviOr who did it purely by greed (if I understand correctly), YoDa and B4 have a lot more extenuating circumstances.
I just don't know what to feel anymore. They should have taken the honorable route out and refused, even if it meant retiring/disbanding but I do feel sorry for their overall situation that led them to matchfix. Also the official report says something about Yoda being blackmailed by the gangsters, holy hell that must have been scary.
I do agree with the ban, however, especially for Gerrard. As a coach you are the shepherd of your players, but instead he led them into corruption...We can't have this in the scene.
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On October 20 2015 10:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote: Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
To be honest I have a hard time being mad at them. Of course they fucked up and of course they have to pay for it (and they will) but they ended in a situation where they were doing their job without getting paid and they couldn't reach anyone for help because there is no player union. The smartest choice would have been to leave Prime and disclose what was going on with the team. They chose the wrong path unfortunately because some shady guys had a shitton of money to offer but unlike sAviOr who did it purely by greed (if I understand correctly), YoDa and B4 have a lot more extenuating circumstances.
I'm disappointed in them, but I am too far away to be influenced seriously. I can't help but wonder how their friends and fellow progamers feel about them, tho. Especially because they all seem to continue to deny the charges, even to their friends, after they get accused and their friends confront them. How can you be friends with someone who lies to your face and then has the balls to ask for your sympathy?
Also, I don't think not being good enough to win is an excuse to cheat. Would you have been okay with them using maphack to make up for their lack of ability?
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"No dude these 2 guys and the coach are literally all of them and there will never be match fixing again everyone else is innocent didn't you read what they said??"
-Hot_Bid
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On October 20 2015 09:59 LongShot27 wrote: As usual the zerg's stay quiet so we can't learn the truth that every zerg loss has been a throw because the race is unbeatable.
If protoss players could multitask or reach more than 150 apm they would be the unbeatable.
User was warned for this post
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On October 20 2015 10:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote: Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
To be honest I have a hard time being mad at them. Of course they fucked up and of course they have to pay for it (and they will) but they ended in a situation where they were doing their job without getting paid and they couldn't reach anyone for help because there is no player union. The smartest choice would have been to leave Prime and disclose what was going on with the team. They chose the wrong path unfortunately because some shady guys had a shitton of money to offer but unlike sAviOr who did it purely by greed (if I understand correctly), YoDa and B4 have a lot more extenuating circumstances.
That being said, it doesn't seems like Byun and KeeN went along with this despite being, probably, in the same situation. If the situation was dire like that, wouldn't be better to stay free rather than being part of a "team" like this.
No Salary + shaddy stuff + harrasment < No Salary
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On October 20 2015 09:46 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:43 20-Minute-Jackal wrote:On October 20 2015 09:39 stuchiu wrote:On October 20 2015 09:38 CometNine wrote: Choya always came across as this Evil, Crazy, Dark Knight kinda guy (don't mean that in a bad way btw lol) but after reading the above...The Dude's got a heart of gold. Massive respect for him as a person and a coach.
Re: TOP - totally feel for this guy. I hope he finds some form and gets picked up in LotV. Seems to have a very good character. Choya was batman Choya is the hero we need, not the hero we deserve. There are no heroes. There is only Choya. Choya is the Way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life.
I was only 9 years old, I loved Choya so much. I had all his released replays and his signature on my mousepad.. I pray to Choya every night before bed, thanking him for the life I have been given. Choya is love, I say; Choya is life. My dad hears me and calls me a faggot, I knew he was just jealous, of my devotion for Choya. I called him a cunt. He slaps me and sends me to go to sleep, I'm crying now, and my face hurts. I lay in bed and it's really cold. A warmth is moving towards me, I feel something touch me. It's...Choya! I'm so happy. He whispers in my ear; "this is my expansion". He grabs me with his powerful Protoss hands and puts me on my hands and knees, I'm ready. I spread my ass cheeks for Choya, He all-ins my butthole, it hurts so much, but I do it for Choya. I can feel my butt tearing as my eyes start to water. I push against his force, I want to please Choya. He roars a mighty roar, as he fills my butt with his psi-energy. My dad walks in. Choya looks him straight in the eye and says; "It's all Protoss now." Choya warps out through my window. Choya is love. Choya, is life.
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WinterStarcraft reaction: "Impressive"
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MC's post was just too real....
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'' Greg Fields @idra i remember gerrard 6 pooling me a bunch in the beta. good to have confirmation he's a piece of shit. ''
Best reaction so far
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Being harassed for not throwing a match is pretty fucked up.
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Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) Show nested quote +All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his).
I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath. 
I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording.
A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod):
Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already.
Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win.
He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people.
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On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Show nested quote +Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath.  I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people.
Can you post the vod ?
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On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath.  I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ?
It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link
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On October 20 2015 19:26 sagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath.  I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ? It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link
Apparently i can't watch it. Or maybe i didn't understand what you meant.
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On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions.
I don't think we'll hear anything from Maru. First of all he does not care and his time in Prime was way before any match fixing. MK will stay quiet as well since anything he'd say would be twisted in million ways.
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On October 20 2015 20:01 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 19:26 sagi wrote:On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath.  I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ? It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link Apparently i can't watch it. Or maybe i didn't understand what you meant.
Works for me. Wolf basically says there are other big names being thrown around but they won't tell us till it's 100% because they don't want the angry mob ruining people's lives. Makes sense to me.
That Jinro vs Hongun match though.... xD
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On October 20 2015 20:05 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 20:01 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 19:26 sagi wrote:On October 20 2015 19:14 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 18:46 sagi wrote:Wolf (paraphrased from this stream by sagi) All quotes are approximates:
Wolf heard a lot of rumors about people from kespa, reporters etc including a lot of big names "you wouldn't want ever to be associated with this". He slept late and woke up to flood of tweets etc. He saw 11 names and thought: "Oh shit this is it". So he got scared and made the tweet in hopes to prepare the scene for the worst. So obviously he can't say any names as they are just rumors. This looks like a local PRIME investigation. What games were fixed might never be revealed. Reason being Korean culture. Guess is some sort of respect thing (my words not his). I wish I had edited the post a bit better. Just typed it as I heard it and tried to keep up. It didn't help that the time was something like 6am here. Zero sleep waiting for the press release and its aftermath.  I'd recommend for anyone interested in his more accurate views to watch the recording. A bit extra what was said for (still from memory, I didn't rewatch the vod): Wolf said there's either going to be new 8th team or the Proleague structure has to be changed to work with only 7 teams. The way I understood it the 8th team is far more likely at this point. He reassured us that 2016 Proleague is definitely going to happen as it has been announced already. Again, I partially missed the point Wolf gave on why the exact matches might not be released, but it could mean the winning parties might lose their glory if their victory was revealed as a free win. He also said sorry several times that the tweet could be easily misinterpreted and for the impression he had some extra info. He was a bit frustrated with peoples reaction when his tweet didn't materialize (as in you shouldn't wait for or want big drama), but understood the reaction as he gave quite a scare to a lot of people. Can you post the vod ? It was in the "this stream" text in OP. link Apparently i can't watch it. Or maybe i didn't understand what you meant. Works for me. Wolf basically says there are other big names being thrown around but they won't tell us till it's 100% because they don't want the angry mob ruining people's lives. Makes sense to me. That Jinro vs Hongun match though.... xD
Oh okay. Well i hope it's going to stop here and that no other people will be arrested and found guilty. Especially big names.
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Banning people for life is stupid.
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On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote: Banning people for life is stupid.
Wanna explain why ?
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On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote: Banning people for life is stupid.
It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it.
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I feel really bad for TOP after reading his comment. Best of luck to him for LotV.
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Of the three names that have been released, the only one I feel actually angry towards is Gerrard. He was the authority figure and gave his players the opportunity (or even pressure) to do this. Even though they made the wrong choice, I can at least empathize with the players and the situation they were in.
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"Because of all that's happened today, I'm going to shut off my phone and just go get drunk (spits)."
Best line! That's what my reaction would have been. haha.
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Wow, TOP and MC's posts were hard to read. Both of them had super close friends that betrayed them and match fixed.
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On October 20 2015 22:46 FFW_Rude wrote:Wanna explain why ?
On October 20 2015 22:50 ThorPool wrote:It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it.
I am big mma fan, and nobody in mma bans anyone for life, for cheating. Except Wanderlei Silva, but this story have not ended yet, he continues to fight courts and he did not get banned for cheating. MMA is a barbaric and very dangerous sport. If this sport does not ban cheaters for life I don't think anyone should. Second we all are human beings and we all done some crazy shit in our life. I am not saying SC2 is less sport, I think sc2 is big balls sport and is very hard game just to learn basics, and its far more harder to get to grand master, and incredible difficult to win some tournament in Korea. You either winner or you get nothing Match fixing is horrible shit, they were definitely deserved to get penalty But in the end of the day progamers are competitors, I don't think that majority of progamers are competing for money. They can easily do something else and get paid more. I think all of this scandal sinners were scared of publicity rather to get ban.They got disposed, in a whole SC community, and even if something would allow them to compete, and Yoda by being fair and honest would win every blizzcon grand finals, this scandal would still chase them for their entire legacy. I would say suspend him for year or two, and get done with it. I doubt anyone would come back after 2 years anyway
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On October 21 2015 00:21 Chant1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:46 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote: Banning people for life is stupid. Wanna explain why ? Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:50 ThorPool wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote: Banning people for life is stupid. It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it. I am big mma fan, and nobody in mma bans anyone for life, for cheating. Except Wanderlei Silva, but this story have not ended yet, he continues to fight courts and he did not get banned for cheating. MMA is a barbaric and very dangerous sport. If this sport does not ban cheaters for life I don't think anyone should. Second we all are human beings and we all done some crazy shit in our life. I am not saying SC2 is less sport, I think sc2 is big balls sport and is very hard game just to learn basics, and its far more harder to get to grand master, and incredible difficult to win some tournament in Korea. You either winner or you get nothing Match fixing is horrible shit, they were definitely deserved to get penalty But in the end of the day progamers are competitors, I don't think that majority of progamers are competing for money. They can easily do something else and get paid more. I think all of this scandal sinners were scared of publicity rather to get ban.They got disposed, in a whole SC community, and even if something would allow them to compete, and Yoda by being fair and honest would win every blizzcon grand finals, this scandal would still chase them for their entire legacy. I would say suspend him for year or two, and get done with it. I doubt anyone would come back after 2 years anyway
Progammer is a job. Especially in Korea. And you never like to work for free. Of course they play for the money. It's their job. I love my job. I really do. But i sure won't do it for free.
And i don't think they can "easily do something else".
When you say "i doubt anyone would come back after 2 years". Well why are you upset with a life ban then ?
I don't know MMA so i can't comment on that. But i would find fair that a fighter that got down because he bet against himself would get really harsh punishment.
And it's Korea. Asian nations are big on respect and elitist as fuck. (i might pull that one out of my ass though as i am no professional in asian culture).
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Wow I get warned for making a joking. Go fuck yourself TL
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 21 2015 00:21 Chant1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:46 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote: Banning people for life is stupid. Wanna explain why ? Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 22:50 ThorPool wrote:On October 20 2015 22:39 Chant1 wrote: Banning people for life is stupid. It might be harsh. But do not forget where all the money for SC2 in Korea comes from. Sponsors,big companies. Match Fixing itself is aweful because it takes away the integrity of that certain Game/sport ect.. The bigger problem is that Match fixing supports gambling,and gambling is Illegal in S.Korea. No big company wants to support Illegal activities,that is why a harsh punishment is necessary. To scare away all the other people who are thinking about doing it. I am big mma fan, and nobody in mma bans anyone for life, for cheating. Except Wanderlei Silva, but this story have not ended yet, he continues to fight courts and he did not get banned for cheating. MMA is a barbaric and very dangerous sport. If this sport does not ban cheaters for life I don't think anyone should. Second we all are human beings and we all done some crazy shit in our life. I am not saying SC2 is less sport, I think sc2 is big balls sport and is very hard game just to learn basics, and its far more harder to get to grand master, and incredible difficult to win some tournament in Korea. You either winner or you get nothing Match fixing is horrible shit, they were definitely deserved to get penalty But in the end of the day progamers are competitors, I don't think that majority of progamers are competing for money. They can easily do something else and get paid more. I think all of this scandal sinners were scared of publicity rather to get ban.They got disposed, in a whole SC community, and even if something would allow them to compete, and Yoda by being fair and honest would win every blizzcon grand finals, this scandal would still chase them for their entire legacy. I would say suspend him for year or two, and get done with it. I doubt anyone would come back after 2 years anyway
It's the appearence of it though, it's the same reason Baseball banned Pete Rose, it's why boxing died outside of one or two fighters, it's why the Savior matchfixing scandal basically killed BW. Once you start to question the integrity of the game/sport what point is there to watch anything? Like if to take an example Ryung made a hot run in GSL and make the round of 4, if this got big would you say a great underdog story or "the fix is in". Some will believe always, many won't. That's why life bans are made.
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On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote: Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
These are words of wisdom. The SC2-Scene could need more of this.
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On October 20 2015 09:48 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:48 Obamarauder wrote:On October 20 2015 09:10 20-Minute-Jackal wrote: I want to hear Maru and MarineKing's reactions. maru probably doesn't care. does he care about anything? his little sister. Thats about it.
Maru is a family man. To him, everyone else is trash. Like Creator.
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I'm not sure I understand why people praise MC or TOP for complaining publicly about beeing betrayed by their friends. Isn't it something personal that should be dealt with in private? After reading their posts it almost seems to me they just try to get some attention by throwing stones at people already down.
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On October 20 2015 10:08 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 08:44 [Svall]Granis wrote: Im not a famous player or even a player anymore. But something that should be said about this (and excuse my poor english)
YoDa and B4 made one of the biggest misstakes of their life, i dont even wanna call it a misstake but best i can do for now.
I dont know YoDa or B4 at all nor do i know anyone in the esports scene but i see a lot of people saying they both ruined their life in eSports. And i somewhat agree on that, but im trying to see this as someone who has nothing when it comes to the SC2 esports scene so bare with me on this.
They both got arrested, they both will pay for their crime, and they both are banned for life by Kespa, that should not (in my eyes) mean that WE (aka everyone) should hate them forever. They did something that we never wanna see happen, and eventho it is a serious thing in eSports. Its not like they killed anyone or robbed a bank, so when they both have done their time and if they decide to move to Europe or North America to play again, we should welcome them BUT also keep not only 1 eye on them but probably 100, that also mean IF this would happen that whatever match they lose will mean that people will directly say "matchfix" but i hope people realize that everyone can have a bad day, or just have a day when nothing goes right.
So eventho this is probably the worst thing you can do in eSports, they will serve time for it, they will pay for it, and they deserve a second chance. Maybe not now, a week from now, or even a year. But in my opinion we should welcome them if they either of them starts to play again, because they arent bad players...they just fucked up, big time.
And i probably have to say that i am in no way defending their actions or think they did the right thing. I might be totally wrong and people might not agree with me wich is totally fine.
To be honest I have a hard time being mad at them. Of course they fucked up and of course they have to pay for it (and they will) but they ended in a situation where they were doing their job without getting paid and they couldn't reach anyone for help because there is no player union. The smartest choice would have been to leave Prime and disclose what was going on with the team. They chose the wrong path unfortunately because some shady guys had a shitton of money to offer but unlike sAviOr who did it purely by greed (if I understand correctly), YoDa and B4 have a lot more extenuating circumstances.
I have rather mixed feelings, mostly so when considering YoDa's total prize money earnings ( http://aligulac.com/players/54-YoDa/earnings/ ). $100,000 prize winnings plus etc earnings over the course of 4 years isn't substantial but is certainly enough to sustain ones self and is much greater success than many other players have seen. From the sounds of it, his cost of living was even being covered by MC for a long period of time.
However 2015 has obviously been very bleak for YoDa financially and Prime was such a disaster with a corrupt and thieving coach at the head of it. To end up in that situation after past years of success in earnings and easier living, the mind can take an uncontrollable dark turn.
A truly honorable person in YoDa's position wouldn't have succumbed to this, but likely, many ordinary people would find themselves doing the same thing he did if the situation were actually desperate enough. Honor can quickly fade when you're surrounded by corruption that's dragging you down and warping your perception. When you're being screwed over and thieved by your coach, your team is in rock bottom, and your constantly being harassed by brokers offering easy opportunities to make money during a time where you need it most, almost anyone could crack.
In the end we don't know the full details of these peoples lives or situations to be able to make absolute judgments of their characters (excluding Gerrard who IMO has done enough to reveal himself). I agree with YoDa being banned from Proleague and believe he should stop competing in SC2 all together if he's not already when there's such a stigma around him now; no matter what there will be a level of animosity involved in any tournament he plays in. I do not hate on him for his mistakes though.
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The thought that there obviously still are straight-up and honorable progamers out there comforts me. But then I think about all the match-fixing casting doubts on them and destroying the game and their livehood .
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On October 21 2015 04:08 GreenFate wrote: I'm not sure I understand why people praise MC or TOP for complaining publicly about beeing betrayed by their friends. Isn't it something personal that should be dealt with in private? After reading their posts it almost seems to me they just try to get some attention by throwing stones at people already down.
Because they have professional pride and feel ashamed of even being associated with this kind of activity. Or even the suggestion of that kind of activity. Note the way MC finished his comment by apologising. Looking at it literally he has nothing to apologise for, but he feels he does because he was also a professional player, he's in 'the scene' and he was YoDa's close friend.
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TOP.. I miss you, on a real note, wanted that GSL win for you.
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I assume we'll never find out who wolf was told was a suspected/known match fixer due to the possibility of false positives ruining careers, but I have a pretty good idea of who the names anyway
We're never going to get a comment on this from MKP for obvious reasons, and I don't see why Maru would given he's never been involved in a suspicious match and left Prime long before any of this happened.
I guess we have a decent idea of why Byun wanted to dissociate himself from Prime, the part about Gerrard stealing/selling his computer is just absurd
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Seed adds a little levity:
Sang-Won Ahn @seedzzing
protoss is can't do match fixing. cause we are bound by the Khala. The sacred union of our every thought and emotion
Incidentally, nobody implicated in the BW match fixing scandal was Protoss, either.
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On October 21 2015 16:24 bduddy wrote: Seed adds a little levity:
Sang-Won Ahn @seedzzing
protoss is can't do match fixing. cause we are bound by the Khala. The sacred union of our every thought and emotion
Incidentally, nobody implicated in the BW match fixing scandal was Protoss, either. Oh so that's why. If one Protoss player would try to matchfix, another one would run into the booth and smack him immediately.
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On October 20 2015 10:56 xTJx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 09:59 LongShot27 wrote: As usual the zerg's stay quiet so we can't learn the truth that every zerg loss has been a throw because the race is unbeatable. If protoss players could multitask or reach more than 150 apm they would be the unbeatable. User was warned for this post
You know the saying "Rather keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot than opening it and removing all doubt"? Please apply it to yourself.
PS: I know that's not the exact quote. The meaning stays the same. Go look it up if it pleases you
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