Oh boy this is the first ever WCS/ladder map pool I can get 100% behind. No obvious shit map that I hate. Really good mix between standard and interesting maps. Good mix between 2p and 4p, even have a 2p mirrored that is great~ Can't say much about balance mix and how aggressive vs passive maps work out. But overall it just looks super cool.

Also fuck this whiny community, I always hated you.

[PkF] Wire

France24239 Posts

June 26 2015 12:23 GMT

#143

On June 26 2015 20:49 Ragoo wrote:
Oh boy this is the first ever WCS/ladder map pool I can get 100% behind. No obvious shit map that I hate. Really good mix between standard and interesting maps. Good mix between 2p and 4p, even have a 2p mirrored that is great~ Can't say much about balance mix and how aggressive vs passive maps work out. But overall it just looks super cool.

Also fuck this whiny community, I always hated you.

... I'm speechless. I guess there's no accounting for taste.

On June 26 2015 20:49 Ragoo wrote:
Can't say much about balance mix

Doesn't it look like a Protoss' nightmare ?

Elentos

55583 Posts

June 26 2015 12:33 GMT

#144

On June 26 2015 20:49 Ragoo wrote:
Can't say much about balance mix and how aggressive vs passive maps work out

Those are literally the most important things for maps used in the WCS tournaments.

Ragoo

Germany2773 Posts

June 26 2015 15:47 GMT

#145

On June 26 2015 21:33 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

Those are literally the most important things for maps used in the WCS tournaments.

What is your point? I still can't say anything about the balance until I see them played.

OtherWorld

France17333 Posts

June 26 2015 15:54 GMT

#146

On June 27 2015 00:47 Ragoo wrote:

Show nested quote +

What is your point? I still can't say anything about the balance until I see them played.

Which is why we need some way to see maps extensively played by pros before they're put in the WCS/ladder map pool.

Ragoo

Germany2773 Posts

June 26 2015 17:12 GMT

#147

On June 27 2015 00:54 OtherWorld wrote:

Show nested quote +

Which is why we need some way to see maps extensively played by pros before they're put in the WCS/ladder map pool.

Just one little problem. This has never happened and will never happen. How do you give pros incentive to "extensively play" maps that are not in wcs/ladder so basically irrelevant for them.

OtherWorld

France17333 Posts

June 26 2015 18:39 GMT

#148

On June 27 2015 02:12 Ragoo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Just one little problem. This has never happened and will never happen. How do you give pros incentive to "extensively play" maps that are not in wcs/ladder so basically irrelevant for them.

I know, and thus it will always be an issue to put map with uncertain balance at the highest level of play, putting careers in danger. One of the ways would be to have a regular (monthly/bimonthly/weekly) tournament with decent prizepool and with a mappool made only of non-ladder maps. Another way, which would be way easier, would be to have non-WCS tournaments use one/two/three non-ladder map in their map pool. But a lot of tournament organizers are reluctant to do this, usually because it would upset the players. Guess what? O'Gaming already does that (they did in NationWars and still do in Underdogs - and I sure hope they'll do it should a new edition of NW or Iron Squid happen) and the world didn't explode, players didn't go on strike, everything went superfine and we got to see cool maps like Kamala Park in action.

zerge

Germany162 Posts

June 26 2015 19:28 GMT

#149

Played some games on Terraform and the map seems terrible for zerg versus terran. The 3rd baseis hard to connect with creep, chokes everywhere, the 'special' bases are of course bad if you are on mostly melee units against ranged units leaving you with no good option for a 5th base. And last but not least the obligatory reaper staircase to make sure the zerg can not do more than one opener.
But hey there are overlord spots around the map, so the mapmaker knows that zergs exists in sc2 or maybe it was just an accident.
I really don't get how anyone could objectivly look at this map and think it's balanced.

Meavis

Netherlands1300 Posts

June 26 2015 19:38 GMT

#150

On June 26 2015 21:33 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

Those are literally the most important things for maps used in the WCS tournaments.

Ragoo's standpoint is understandable from his perspective, they're interesting maps from a mapmaking point of view, but to play on and them being used in tournament is a whole different world, which is why I generaly disagree with Ragoo, and I really hope Blizzard splits the ladder from proffesional maps.

On June 27 2015 00:47 Ragoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 26 2015 21:33 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

Those are literally the most important things for maps used in the WCS tournaments.

What is your point? I still can't say anything about the balance until I see them played.

it's very VERY possible to estimate the balance of a map when all its features have been used before, we know exactly how each of this individual features plays out in what scenarios, and with some effort it's realistic to make an educated gues on the balance of a map.

On June 27 2015 00:54 OtherWorld wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 27 2015 00:47 Ragoo wrote:

Show nested quote +

What is your point? I still can't say anything about the balance until I see them played.

Which is why we need some way to see maps extensively played by pros before they're put in the WCS/ladder map pool.

as Ragoo said, never happend and never will happen as long as ladder existants and it is the one and only form of practice/melee games in general.

On June 27 2015 04:28 zerge wrote:
Played some games on Terraform and the map seems terrible for zerg versus terran. The 3rd baseis hard to connect with creep, chokes everywhere, the 'special' bases are of course bad if you are on mostly melee units against ranged units leaving you with no good option for a 5th base. And last but not least the obligatory reaper staircase to make sure the zerg can not do more than one opener.
But hey there are overlord spots around the map, so the mapmacker knows that zergs exists in sc2 or maybe it was just an accident.
I really don't get how anyone could objectivly look at this map and think it's balanced.

these are exactly the things I was expecting, and to me another reinforcing point on my previous statement of estimating map balance.