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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 12 2015 19:46 nimdil wrote:
Tier 1
IPL 5 - 1st
MLG Fall 2012 - 2nd
Tier 2
MLG Summer Championship 2012 - 1st
<- I don't get it.
player list was what decided what tier a international lan placed where.
For brevity's sake, I only include Top 10 of their race or a player who went on a hot run at the tournament. MLG Summer had: Taeja, Ryung, HerO, Crank, Leenock, Violet, Stephano, First, Oz, MarineKing. If I really stretch I might include Losira/aLive too. That's 10 players top 10 of their race, 12 max. Among those only 2 are challenging for a top 5 spot in best player of the world at that time (Taeja/Leenock).
Now take IPL 5: Polt, Taeja, Crank, San, Creator, HerO, Byun, MMA, Violet, Byul, Symbol, Leenock, Bomber, Yoda, Naniwa, Stephano, Vortix, Lucifron, Nerchio, Seed, MC, Squirtle, Life, DRG, Hyun, Sniper, Ryung, Bogus. Those are what I consider notable. Now you start looking at context. San could beat anyone online, but couldnt beat anyone offline, so I take him off. Byul's skill was fairly high, but he never proved it in team league, he's off. Lucifron/Vortix/Nerchio are around the top 10 mark for their races at that time (it was the height of their careers). Crank had fallen off, he's out.
That leaves Polt, Taeja, Creator, HerO, Byun, MMA, Violet, Symbol, Leenock, Bomber, Yoda, Naniwa, Stephano, Vortix, Lucifron, Nerchio, Seed, MC, Squirtle, Life, DRG, Hyun, Sniper, Ryung, Bogus.
That is about 25 players worth noting. At least 22 are in the top 10 or higher of their race. 3 of them were in their peaks. In terms of top 5 spots you have Life, Taeja, Polt, Leenock, Bomber, Creator all who had very real claims on said spots. You even have players at their extreme peaks (Hyun, Sniper, Ryung, Bogus) who were running Top 4 GSL. Among the top tier players that are missing from that time, I think the list is only missing Mvp, Rain, Parting. This is easily the single hardest international lan to have ever been run.
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All right, I'll bite. Since consistency seems to be one of the top criteria (and since TaeJa and Zest are in the picture....)
10: Parting
9: Soulkey
8: Zest
7: TaeJa
6: MMA
5: Polt
4: Nestea
3: MC
2: Life
1: Mvp
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if i got the reasoning of stuchiu right, no way taeja would be in the top 5-6
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On April 12 2015 19:18 Ardias wrote:Actually, I want to put a little bit more analysis in my rankings 10. Polt 9. Rain 8. Innovation 7. Nestea 6. Zest 5. MMA 4. MC 3. Taeja 2. Mvp 1. Life Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10 As we see from Zealously post, three players here are guessed wrong, which perfectly fits in my ranking, with exclusion of sOs, Bomber and Parting and addition of Rain. Now with reasoning. As it seems from the ranking, wins in Korea plays a huge part in the player's position as well as consistensy. As for impact made on the game and dominating form - about this I cannot be sure, since missed quite a lot of Starcraft, especially in 2012 and 2014. Also, why I've excluded Bomber and Parting: Bomber - most of the victories are in NA, only one korean title is GSL Code A somwhere in early 2011, so for reasons, mentioned above, I left him aside. With Parting it was a bit harder. Yes, he is very consistent player and have Nestea award. But in the rankings we already have a Nestea award winner - DRG, who actually have a GSL championship under his belt. So I decided, that titles mean a little more than mere consistency, and left Parting out of the top, since he lacks any korean Premier win. So, lets go down by the ranking. 10. Polt - Super Tournament champion, quite consistent player with multiple victories all over the world, no big slumps. What differs him from Bomber, who is out of the list? Super Tournament victory and the fact, that Bomber was falling out of radar more, in my opinion. 9. Rain - consistency (9 code S of 10 GSL participations) and 2 Korean championships (even if we count OSL 1 as "easier" tournament sue to recently switched Kespa pros, which I won't buy since in the playoffs Rain crushed trough ESF players such as MKP, Parting and DRG). [...] Rain - see above. In comparison to Soulkey they seem quite similar - both came with Kespa (though Rain did succeeded a bit earlier), both consistent and deadly. But I'll put Rain a bit above due to 2 korean championships (in the finals of one he also did beat Soulkey), why Soulkey has 1. Also other results seem a bit higher for the Rain as well. Stephano - damn, if he make it to the top10, then I made a major fuckup in my calculations. Don't get me wrong, I like Stephano, alwasy loocked up at him as a foreigner hope until he retired, and yes, he have 4 premier wins, but to put him at top 10 GOAT list? Don't think so. Period of his dominance was a little bigger than a year, and he never made it deep in Korea. His wins were all international tourneys, and despite beating some good Koreans there, I doubt we may consider him such a great player. Top 15 maybe, but not top 10, so I'll leave him out of my calculations Still, I would be happy to see him, though it will prove me dead wrong. So now we have 4 names 2 of which had to go and 2 names 1 of which we need to add. Bomber Polt Innovation Parting Soulkey Rain We may divide these players into ESF and Kespa groups. Bomber, Polt and Parting being here almost from the start and being consistent throughout the years, all of them didn't get much on the homeground (with the exception of Polt's ST championship). But Parting continued to play in Korea, remaing consistently strong and sometimes being on the verge of winning, but never made it in Korea. His victories on WCG and WCS were, well, fairly easy, and Homestory X and Red Bull can't be compared to actual Korean tournaments. Still he got 3 2nd places, and may be I've really underestimated Parting due to his lack of actual wins. Polt and Bomber are the same in many regards, but I consider Polt as more stable player +his ST win. As for Kespa (Soulkey, Innovation, Rain) - as I know sure, at least one of them should be in and one of them not. From these 3 I consider Soulkey as the weakest one at least in terms of results. Inno and Rain seems quite similar in terms of results, perfromance and impact on the game and I don't think that one of them will be in, and one will not. So it leaves us with Rain in and either Bomber and Polt or Bomber and Parting out.
I still don't get why you put in Rain. Really. Why not going with FlaSh then ? He also did qualify quite a bit for GSL, he did VERY well in Proleague, won IEM over Zest, lost IEM to Life...
Just listing that FlaSh deserve more to be in that list than Rain.
And let's be serious : Rain, marking SCII history over Bomber or Polt or Parting ? Come on. Just be realistic man.
EDIT : sry for the quote fuck up 
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Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll.
Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot?
Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
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Russian Federation618 Posts
On April 12 2015 20:26 SkrollK wrote:I still don't get why you put in Rain. Really. Why not going with FlaSh then ? He also did qualify quite a bit for GSL, he did VERY well in Proleague, won IEM over Zest, lost IEM to Life... Just listing that FlaSh deserve more to be in that list than Rain. And let's be serious : Rain, marking SCII history over Bomber or Polt or Parting ? Come on. Just be realistic man. EDIT : sry for the quote fuck up
Well, I made my analysis based on Zealously words. Polt, Bomber, Inno, Parting - 2 of them won't be here. Rain, Soulkey (or probably Stephano) - 1 of them will be. Based on this I made my choices.
Flash has shown much less consistency due to often falling to code A and never even close to win Korean premier. IEM is good, but I would rank it below Hot6ix or OSL at any given day, mostly due to the fact that on OSL people qualified directly and Hot6ix was compilation of GSL/OSL champions and runner-ups, while IEM was international(so online qualis and a lot of foreigners and 2nd tier Koreans) and with a lot of invites.
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On April 12 2015 20:43 Ardias wrote:
Well, I made my analysis based on Zealously words. Polt, Bomber, Inno, Parting - 2 of them won't be here. Rain, Soulkey (or probably Stephano) - 1 of them will be. Based on this I made my choices.
Flash has shown much less consistency due to often falling to code A and never even close to win Korean premier. IEM is good, but I would rank it below Hot6ix or OSL at any given day, mostly due to the fact that on OSL people qualified directly and Hot6ix was compilation of GSL/OSL champions and runner-ups, while IEM was international(so online qualis and a lot of foreigners and 2nd tier Koreans) and with a lot of invites.
Well, I totally agree with you on that point. Tho I don't see Rain going in that list  The point was that I don't see how Rain marked the history of SCII, just as the other players in that list did.
I'd rather see SoulKey, even if it's toatlly subjective there
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On April 12 2015 20:26 SkrollK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 19:18 Ardias wrote:Actually, I want to put a little bit more analysis in my rankings 10. Polt 9. Rain 8. Innovation 7. Nestea 6. Zest 5. MMA 4. MC 3. Taeja 2. Mvp 1. Life On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10 As we see from Zealously post, three players here are guessed wrong, which perfectly fits in my ranking, with exclusion of sOs, Bomber and Parting and addition of Rain. Now with reasoning. As it seems from the ranking, wins in Korea plays a huge part in the player's position as well as consistensy. As for impact made on the game and dominating form - about this I cannot be sure, since missed quite a lot of Starcraft, especially in 2012 and 2014. Also, why I've excluded Bomber and Parting: Bomber - most of the victories are in NA, only one korean title is GSL Code A somwhere in early 2011, so for reasons, mentioned above, I left him aside. With Parting it was a bit harder. Yes, he is very consistent player and have Nestea award. But in the rankings we already have a Nestea award winner - DRG, who actually have a GSL championship under his belt. So I decided, that titles mean a little more than mere consistency, and left Parting out of the top, since he lacks any korean Premier win. So, lets go down by the ranking. 10. Polt - Super Tournament champion, quite consistent player with multiple victories all over the world, no big slumps. What differs him from Bomber, who is out of the list? Super Tournament victory and the fact, that Bomber was falling out of radar more, in my opinion. 9. Rain - consistency (9 code S of 10 GSL participations) and 2 Korean championships (even if we count OSL 1 as "easier" tournament sue to recently switched Kespa pros, which I won't buy since in the playoffs Rain crushed trough ESF players such as MKP, Parting and DRG). [...] Rain - see above. In comparison to Soulkey they seem quite similar - both came with Kespa (though Rain did succeeded a bit earlier), both consistent and deadly. But I'll put Rain a bit above due to 2 korean championships (in the finals of one he also did beat Soulkey), why Soulkey has 1. Also other results seem a bit higher for the Rain as well. Stephano - damn, if he make it to the top10, then I made a major fuckup in my calculations. Don't get me wrong, I like Stephano, alwasy loocked up at him as a foreigner hope until he retired, and yes, he have 4 premier wins, but to put him at top 10 GOAT list? Don't think so. Period of his dominance was a little bigger than a year, and he never made it deep in Korea. His wins were all international tourneys, and despite beating some good Koreans there, I doubt we may consider him such a great player. Top 15 maybe, but not top 10, so I'll leave him out of my calculations Still, I would be happy to see him, though it will prove me dead wrong. So now we have 4 names 2 of which had to go and 2 names 1 of which we need to add. Bomber Polt Innovation Parting Soulkey Rain We may divide these players into ESF and Kespa groups. Bomber, Polt and Parting being here almost from the start and being consistent throughout the years, all of them didn't get much on the homeground (with the exception of Polt's ST championship). But Parting continued to play in Korea, remaing consistently strong and sometimes being on the verge of winning, but never made it in Korea. His victories on WCG and WCS were, well, fairly easy, and Homestory X and Red Bull can't be compared to actual Korean tournaments. Still he got 3 2nd places, and may be I've really underestimated Parting due to his lack of actual wins. Polt and Bomber are the same in many regards, but I consider Polt as more stable player +his ST win. As for Kespa (Soulkey, Innovation, Rain) - as I know sure, at least one of them should be in and one of them not. From these 3 I consider Soulkey as the weakest one at least in terms of results. Inno and Rain seems quite similar in terms of results, perfromance and impact on the game and I don't think that one of them will be in, and one will not. So it leaves us with Rain in and either Bomber and Polt or Bomber and Parting out. I still don't get why you put in Rain. Really. Why not going with FlaSh then ? He also did qualify quite a bit for GSL, he did VERY well in Proleague, won IEM over Zest, lost IEM to Life... Just listing that FlaSh deserve more to be in that list than Rain. And let's be serious : Rain, marking SCII history over Bomber or Polt or Parting ? Come on. Just be realistic man. EDIT : sry for the quote fuck up
The first few months after KeSPA swapped over, Rain looked nearly unstoppable. He was pretty consistent for a while after that. I dunno that Flash has ever had that level of dominance.
That said, Polt, Bomber and PartinG I would certainly put ahead of Rain.
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Switzerland1507 Posts
On April 12 2015 03:36 Zealously wrote:
CAN YOU GUESS THE PLAYERS THAT WILL BE IN PART 2?
I'll buy you 3 months of TL+ if you guess right, 6 if you get the order right
10. herO
9. Zest
8. Innovation
7. MC
6. Parting
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On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10
Is this hint confirmed? It changes everything.
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On April 12 2015 13:41 Torra wrote:
1. Mvp
2. Life
3. Taeja
4. Polt
5. MC
6. Nestea
7. MMA
8. Parting
9. Zest
10. Bomber
Taeja can't be that high with his complete lack of success in Korea.
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your Country52797 Posts
On April 12 2015 21:44 Antaa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10 Is this hint confirmed? It changes everything.
Yes, it is. 
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On April 12 2015 21:58 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 21:44 Antaa wrote:On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10 Is this hint confirmed? It changes everything. Yes, it is.
...so temp who do you think is on the list
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On April 12 2015 06:00 ATiBright wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 05:55 Elentos wrote:On April 12 2015 05:51 ATiBright wrote:The number of people who are forgetting Parting in their list disgusts me. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/PartinGHe has also earned the 2nd most money of any Protoss player aside from MC, yet his results are far more impressive than MC's since 2012. 1. Life 2. Mvp 3. Parting 4. MC 5. Polt 6. Taeja 7. MMA 8. Innovation 9. Zest 10. sOs Seeing as how sOs is #16 in stuchiu's list, who would you replace him with? My bad didn't read the last part. Nestea I guess even though it's more nostalgia talking, but I guess he was pretty inventive and did a lot of work for Zerg early on and he is including creativity and meta game shifts as reasons for rankings. @Sharkie, sure MC won 2 GSL's but he was in how many GSL's total, never strung together more then a handful in a row. Parting got a Nestea award and has been in like 18 GSL's, plus he has been competing with the best of the best in Korea since 2012. MC made a fortune off beating up on foreigners and Code A level Koreans for the last few years.
Did MMA prove he was always Code S level?
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10: rain
9: parting
8: soulkey
7: innovation
6: sos (if stuchio actuall did say sos was 16 then i include mma instead)
or if it's purely an old boys club sort of thing
10: mma
9: polt
8: parting
7: hyun
6: san
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Icon of Second must be JJJJJJaedong!!!!!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 12 2015 21:44 Antaa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10 Is this hint confirmed? It changes everything.
I've read the full article a few times 
On April 12 2015 22:05 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 21:58 The_Templar wrote:On April 12 2015 21:44 Antaa wrote:On April 12 2015 04:31 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 04:30 KalWarkov wrote:
i have a problem. i have 12 players left for 10 spots :O
Zest
Nestea
Innovation
sOs
Bomber
Taeja
Polt
Parting
MMA
MC
Life
MVP Hint: three of those aren't in the Top 10 Is this hint confirmed? It changes everything. Yes, it is. ...so temp who do you think is on the list
Off-limits, he's read the article!
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10.Zest
9.Innovation
8.Polt
7.Bomber
6.Taeja
5.Parting
4.MC
3.MMA
2.Life
1.Mvp
Really hard to predict since there are also players like Fruitdealer, Stephano, Nestea, herO and many other, who can be easily in the Top10
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As much as I love herO I doubt he is on the list.
If he had won all the finals he was in then yes surely... :/
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EPT
