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On April 12 2015 23:32 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +the player’s level relative to the time must be considered with several caveats So this is a "greatest of all time" list, but you're judging the players within their respective time period. How does that work? That means they aren't the "greatest of all time". Mvp maybe greatest in 2011. 2012-2013 he's not that relevant and onward he's irrelevant. Top players right now (like Life) are at the highest level of SC2 we have ever seen and they are at a level way above people like Nestea, Mvp, MKP, and leenock ever were. Show nested quote +We must consider the innovation and creativity they used to make strategies as well as the refinement of pre-existing strategies, the meta in which they played and the outside factors they had to face during their reigns. A lot of players contribute to innovating the meta. Give destiny a GOAT award or an acknowledgement for innovating with mass infestors?
So what ingenious alternate way do you have to compare Mvp in his prime to current Life? You're basically saying Mvp in his prime is so far inferior to current top players he would not be relevant, you have nothing to prove that. Nobody does. So naturally stuchiu uses the respective time period. And you can't even try to argue that people like herO or Zest are above a man like Mvp who has won 4 GSL titles, one of them with severe wrist issues and cervical kyphosis.
The bolded part is hopefully a joke. It's a joke, right?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 12 2015 23:32 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +the player’s level relative to the time must be considered with several caveats So this is a "greatest of all time" list, but you're judging the players within their respective time period. How does that work? That means they aren't the "greatest of all time". Mvp maybe greatest in 2011. 2012-2013 he's not that relevant and onward he's irrelevant. Top players right now (like Life) are at the highest level of SC2 we have ever seen and they are at a level way above people like Nestea, Mvp, MKP, and leenock ever were. Show nested quote +We must consider the innovation and creativity they used to make strategies as well as the refinement of pre-existing strategies, the meta in which they played and the outside factors they had to face during their reigns. A lot of players contribute to innovating the meta. Give destiny a GOAT award or an acknowledgement for innovating with mass infestors?
If you can convince me that Hyuk, Action, Calm, Modesty Rush, Last, Hiya, Horang2 are better than Boxer, oov, Savior, July, Yellow, Nada when it comes down to all time, then go ahead. I'm all ears.
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MMA, Mvp or Life has to be Number 1. It has to be one of these 3 otherwise i'm calling a hoax. And even though this is on Liquid then Taeja should be in 10-6 and not 5-1 due to the lack of GSL championships
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On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting
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On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting
Stuchiu will put someone else number one. Who was really important and evil?
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On April 13 2015 00:24 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting Stuchiu will put someone else number one. Who was really important and evil?
I just put hyvaa because he's the guy who goes toe-to-toe in macro with MMA, Rain, INnoVation and First and then still cheeses Fantasy 3 games in a row to eliminate him from GSL.
hyvaa never forget ;____;
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On April 13 2015 00:24 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting Stuchiu will put someone else number one. Who was really important and evil?
sniper and symbol both qualify.
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On April 13 2015 00:24 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting Stuchiu will put someone else number one. Who was really important and evil?
INCA because of his contribution to protoss playstyles
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On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting
much like the sOs test, this poll is a do you read LR test
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On April 12 2015 23:49 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 23:16 coloursheep wrote:On April 12 2015 23:07 Scarecrow wrote:
1. MVP
2. MC
3. Life
4. Taeja
5. Nestea
6. Zest
7. Polt
8. Innovation
9. MMA
10. sOs I think you might be the first person to get the top 3 in the correct order i had them in that order on like page 5.
I said think and might, but credit where credits due, you were right before him
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On April 13 2015 00:24 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting Stuchiu will put someone else number one. Who was really important and evil?
Sniper
INCA
hyvaa
Has
Sniper
Sniper
INCA
Has
RoRo?
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I couldn't begin to guess how Stuchiu will rank them and I already disagree a bit with the first part of his ranking, so I guess I'll throw out what I think it should be. My personal criteria would be overall longevity and consistency as most important with more recent results trumping past history, level of dominance playing a role, and a nod to innovation. I don't like too much of an emphasis solely on the number of gold medals.
1. life
2. mvp
3. taeja
4. innovation
5-9 interchangeable: mc, herO, sos, zest, parting
10. polt
11. nestea
12. mma
13. bomber
14. soo
15. drg
16. rain
17. marineking
18. maru
19. leenock
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On April 13 2015 00:11 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 23:32 Deathstar wrote:the player’s level relative to the time must be considered with several caveats So this is a "greatest of all time" list, but you're judging the players within their respective time period. How does that work? That means they aren't the "greatest of all time". Mvp maybe greatest in 2011. 2012-2013 he's not that relevant and onward he's irrelevant. Top players right now (like Life) are at the highest level of SC2 we have ever seen and they are at a level way above people like Nestea, Mvp, MKP, and leenock ever were. We must consider the innovation and creativity they used to make strategies as well as the refinement of pre-existing strategies, the meta in which they played and the outside factors they had to face during their reigns. A lot of players contribute to innovating the meta. Give destiny a GOAT award or an acknowledgement for innovating with mass infestors? If you can convince me that Hyuk, Action, Calm, Modesty Rush, Last, Hiya, Horang2 are better than Boxer, oov, Savior, July, Yellow, Nada when it comes down to all time, then go ahead. I'm all ears.
Here is my thought process. This is a GOAT list written in 2015. As you go farther back in time, you depreciate the value of a player's accomplishment. A GSL win in 2014 is more valuable than a GSL win in 2011 because standards have risen so high since then.
Boxer's gameplay in 2001 look like child's play compared to 2005 when July was on a roll. In other words, BoxeR won during a time when people didn't know what they were doing ( http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/BoxeR ), all around 2001. I'm not saying there isn't a place for Nada, saviOr, or July on a bw GOAT list, but Boxer and Yellow? Come on.
My original statement was directly targeted at people with "Mvp is the best" goggles and to ask them to take some perspective.
If you made a BW GOAT list, who would be closer to #1. Flash, Nada, or Boxer? I view Flash's gameplay as the pinnacle of Terran play, and one of the top scbw play, a feat not touched by Nada or Boxer.
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On April 13 2015 00:53 coloursheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 23:49 Tanzklaue wrote:On April 12 2015 23:16 coloursheep wrote:On April 12 2015 23:07 Scarecrow wrote:
1. MVP
2. MC
3. Life
4. Taeja
5. Nestea
6. Zest
7. Polt
8. Innovation
9. MMA
10. sOs I think you might be the first person to get the top 3 in the correct order i had them in that order on like page 5. I said think and might, but credit where credits due, you were right before him
either way you are all wrong, no way in hell MC will be above Life
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On April 13 2015 00:54 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:11 stuchiu wrote:On April 12 2015 23:32 Deathstar wrote:the player’s level relative to the time must be considered with several caveats So this is a "greatest of all time" list, but you're judging the players within their respective time period. How does that work? That means they aren't the "greatest of all time". Mvp maybe greatest in 2011. 2012-2013 he's not that relevant and onward he's irrelevant. Top players right now (like Life) are at the highest level of SC2 we have ever seen and they are at a level way above people like Nestea, Mvp, MKP, and leenock ever were. We must consider the innovation and creativity they used to make strategies as well as the refinement of pre-existing strategies, the meta in which they played and the outside factors they had to face during their reigns. A lot of players contribute to innovating the meta. Give destiny a GOAT award or an acknowledgement for innovating with mass infestors? If you can convince me that Hyuk, Action, Calm, Modesty Rush, Last, Hiya, Horang2 are better than Boxer, oov, Savior, July, Yellow, Nada when it comes down to all time, then go ahead. I'm all ears. Here is my thought process. This is a GOAT list written in 2015. As you go farther back in time, you depreciate the value of a player's accomplishment. A GSL win in 2014 is more valuable than a GSL win in 2011 because standards have risen so high since then. Boxer's gameplay in 2001 look like child's play compared to 2005 when July was on a roll. In other words, BoxeR won during a time when people didn't know what they were doing ( http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/BoxeR ), all around 2001. I'm not saying there isn't a place for Nada, saviOr, or July on a bw GOAT list, but Boxer and Yellow? Come on. My original statement was directly targeted at people with "Mvp is the best" goggles and to ask them to take some perspective. If you made a BW GOAT list, who would be closer to #1. Flash, Nada, or Boxer? I view Flash's gameplay as the pinnacle of Terran play, and one of the top scbw play, a feat not touched by Nada or Boxer.
but but Bisu D:
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 13 2015 00:54 arcane1129 wrote:
I couldn't begin to guess how Stuchiu will rank them and I already disagree a bit with the first part of his ranking, so I guess I'll throw out what I think it should be. My personal criteria would be overall longevity and consistency as most important with more recent results trumping past history, level of dominance playing a role, and a nod to innovation. I don't like too much of an emphasis solely on the number of gold medals.
1. life
2. mvp
3. taeja
4. innovation
5-9 interchangeable: mc, herO, sos, zest, parting
10. polt
11. nestea
12. mma
13. bomber
14. soo
15. drg
16. rain
17. marineking
18. maru
19. leenock
innovation is less consistent than Polt, MC, MMA, herO, Zest, Parting, Bomber, soO, Rain and Maru.
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10.Zest
9.Bomber
8.Polt
7.MMA
6.Parting
5.Teaja
4.Nestea
3.Life
2.MC
1.MVP
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On April 13 2015 00:54 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:24 Circumstance wrote:On April 13 2015 00:23 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 12 2015 20:34 Rocket-Bear wrote:Scimmed through the read and didn't see a smiliar poll. Looks like most agree that Life and Mvp takes 1 and 2. So who do you think gets the 1 spot? Poll: Number 1Mvp (47) 63% Life (28) 37% 75 total votes Your vote: Number 1 (Vote): Life
(Vote): Mvp
Please keep voting Stuchiu will put someone else number one. Who was really important and evil? Sniper INCA hyvaa Has Sniper Sniper INCA Has RoRo?
I'm off to write my top 10 of evil now.
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Poland3768 Posts
So I imagine the reamaining 10 players are:
Zest
Life
MMA
Mvp
Nestea
TaeJa
Polt
MC
Parting
sOs
The question is - in what order.
I guess s.t. like
1. Mvp
2. Life
3. MC
4. MMA
5. Nestea
6. Zest
7. TaeJa
8. Rain
9. Parting
10. sOs
...?
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On April 13 2015 00:58 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 00:54 arcane1129 wrote:
I couldn't begin to guess how Stuchiu will rank them and I already disagree a bit with the first part of his ranking, so I guess I'll throw out what I think it should be. My personal criteria would be overall longevity and consistency as most important with more recent results trumping past history, level of dominance playing a role, and a nod to innovation. I don't like too much of an emphasis solely on the number of gold medals.
1. life
2. mvp
3. taeja
4. innovation
5-9 interchangeable: mc, herO, sos, zest, parting
10. polt
11. nestea
12. mma
13. bomber
14. soo
15. drg
16. rain
17. marineking
18. maru
19. leenock
innovation is less consistent than Polt, MC, MMA, herO, Zest, Parting, Bomber, soO, Rain and Maru.
At any point in time have you considered innovation not a top 5 terran or even top 10 overall player? He's probably far and away the best team league player for the past 2 years, had one of the most dominating periods of any player stats-wise, and both older and recent gold medals at the highest level of competition.
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EPT
