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On April 13 2015 01:29 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 01:24 arcane1129 wrote:On April 13 2015 01:08 stuchiu wrote:On April 13 2015 01:03 arcane1129 wrote:On April 13 2015 00:58 stuchiu wrote:On April 13 2015 00:54 arcane1129 wrote:
I couldn't begin to guess how Stuchiu will rank them and I already disagree a bit with the first part of his ranking, so I guess I'll throw out what I think it should be. My personal criteria would be overall longevity and consistency as most important with more recent results trumping past history, level of dominance playing a role, and a nod to innovation. I don't like too much of an emphasis solely on the number of gold medals.
1. life
2. mvp
3. taeja
4. innovation
5-9 interchangeable: mc, herO, sos, zest, parting
10. polt
11. nestea
12. mma
13. bomber
14. soo
15. drg
16. rain
17. marineking
18. maru
19. leenock
innovation is less consistent than Polt, MC, MMA, herO, Zest, Parting, Bomber, soO, Rain and Maru. At any point in time have you considered innovation not a top 5 terran or even top 10 overall player? He's probably far and away the best team league player for the past 2 years, had one of the most dominating periods of any player stats-wise, and both older and recent gold medals. Innovation dropped off for the latter half of 2013 and both early seasons of 2014. Maru won OSL over Inno, got 5 top 4s in Korean/Blizzcon lans, still got a ro8, did worse in the 2014 S3, but won SSL and got second at IEM Taipei, whereas inno got dropped in ro8 gsl/ro8 IEM WC and ro32 in SSL. By your own criteria Maru > Innovation. And his team league results you mean proleague? Maru is 9-5, Inno is 8-3. Maru has been Top 3 for his race since his OSL in 2013. He hasn't let it go from then to now. Basically by your own criteria, Maru is far superior to Innovation. Well, it takes too long to do the rest, but thats a fundamental issue I saw in your list. You're probably right that by my criteria I should move Maru up from where I have him (I just threw my list together in a matter of a couple of minutes without putting in the research you have). However, I'm not talking about just this current proleague. Innovation has done incredibly well in the past seasons as well (and STX won of course with Inno at the helm) and he dominated the ATC during his "slump." Innovation was also considered by many to the best terran at the end of WOL. Maru has also been notorious for doing poorly in KR qualifiers for the past couple of years, which are often just as stacked as any GSL, and Inno has a flew of other achievements you didn't mention (check the trophy case for anyone reading http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players/663_INnoVation). His stats are also quite a bit better in 2/3 matchups. I can't reasonably understand Inno being any less than 8th or so using ANY set of criteria, and I'm still certain that using my criteria he belongs far above Maru at least for now. That said I could easily see Maru moving far up the ranks in the next 1-2 years if he keeps it up. I only focused on things I considered important, offline premier events. If you start counting qualifiers/online events you may have to throw up Gumiho on the list for winning 37 leifeng cups against Code S/ode A player or something. San beat every player in 2012 in qualifiers put couldn't stick 2 wins together at the real thing. When you star including online events, it gets murky real quick. And as you said consistency with more relevance to recent results. Maru has been more consistent in the recent results.
For sure, when it comes online events I tend to predict the opposite of what I might predict in offline events. It is really strange.
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MarineKing before Maru??? Some people still belive this?
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On April 13 2015 02:04 damoonwolf wrote:
MarineKing before Maru??? Some people still belive this?
I say screw them both, but I can kinda believe MKP over Maru
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On April 13 2015 02:06 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:04 damoonwolf wrote:
MarineKing before Maru??? Some people still belive this? I say screw them both, but I can kinda believe MKP over Maru
Kinda agree there.
But if Maru just goes 2015 the way he did the past 6 months, you do the same ranking next year, he'd just go at least 5 places higher.
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On April 13 2015 02:04 damoonwolf wrote:
MarineKing before Maru??? Some people still belive this?
3 gsl finals + code a final + hot6ix cup final + 3 mlg finals of which he won 2 vs 1 OSL, 1 SSL win and one IEM final
edit: i even think MK should be higher on this list
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On April 13 2015 02:16 SkrollK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:06 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2015 02:04 damoonwolf wrote:
MarineKing before Maru??? Some people still belive this? I say screw them both, but I can kinda believe MKP over Maru Kinda agree there. But if Maru just goes 2015 the way he did the past 6 months, you do the same ranking next year, he'd just go at least 5 places higher.
perhaps not that high but yes that would be impressive
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inb4 taeja gets placed way higher than he ever should 
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On April 13 2015 02:35 snailz wrote:inb4 taeja gets placed way higher than he ever should
prob top 5 maybe 4 no way top 2
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19533 Posts
On April 13 2015 02:37 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:35 snailz wrote:inb4 taeja gets placed way higher than he ever should prob top 5 maybe 4 no way top 2
well top 2 are life and Mvp (not sure in what order)
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Poland3748 Posts
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United States23455 Posts
On April 13 2015 02:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:37 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2015 02:35 snailz wrote:inb4 taeja gets placed way higher than he ever should prob top 5 maybe 4 no way top 2 well top 2 are life and Mvp (not sure in what order)
I could see stuchiu putting MC in there
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On April 12 2015 23:05 Zealously wrote:The "discussion" was embarrassing, which is why it was closed. Everything that could be said has been said, and if new information comes to light that might warrant a thread. Until then, there is nothing to be gained by having a thread dedicated to a massive circular argument on TL.
The fact that TL is stifling discussion about ongoing matchfixing in SC2 is what's embarassing. The importance of the issue in and of itself warrants a thread, period. But I guess TL wants it quiet just like Blizzard and KeSPA.
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Mute City2363 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:13 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 13 2015 02:37 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2015 02:35 snailz wrote:inb4 taeja gets placed way higher than he ever should prob top 5 maybe 4 no way top 2 well top 2 are life and Mvp (not sure in what order) I could see stuchiu putting MC in there
The bait is real
On April 13 2015 03:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 23:05 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 23:00 Disarmed wrote:
its not getting embarrassing? The "discussion" was embarrassing, which is why it was closed. Everything that could be said has been said, and if new information comes to light that might warrant a thread. Until then, there is nothing to be gained by having a thread dedicated to a massive circular argument on TL. The fact that TL is stifling discussion about ongoing matchfixing in SC2 is what's embarassing. The importance of the issue in and of itself warrants a thread, period. But I guess TL wants it quiet just like Blizzard and KeSPA.
It had its thread, up until the point that the circlejerk was pointless and meaningless
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:13 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:39 The_Red_Viper wrote:On April 13 2015 02:37 Cricketer12 wrote:On April 13 2015 02:35 snailz wrote:inb4 taeja gets placed way higher than he ever should prob top 5 maybe 4 no way top 2 well top 2 are life and Mvp (not sure in what order) I could see stuchiu putting MC in there
Well that would mean undervalue the list as a whole. Life and Mvp people can accept as 1st, but MC - probably not. MC is super solid 3rd.
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I'm really excited to see if puma shows up on this list
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United States23455 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 23:05 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 23:00 Disarmed wrote:
its not getting embarrassing? The "discussion" was embarrassing, which is why it was closed. Everything that could be said has been said, and if new information comes to light that might warrant a thread. Until then, there is nothing to be gained by having a thread dedicated to a massive circular argument on TL. The fact that TL is stifling discussion about ongoing matchfixing in SC2 is what's embarassing. The importance of the issue in and of itself warrants a thread, period. But I guess TL wants it quiet just like Blizzard and KeSPA.
Yeah TL is part of a massive conspiracy to cover this all up. If only they had allowed some people on this forum to keep saying the same thing over and over again/make baseless accusations then we would have all the answers about match fixing for sure!
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 13 2015 02:22 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 02:04 damoonwolf wrote:
MarineKing before Maru??? Some people still belive this? 3 gsl finals + code a final + hot6ix cup final + 3 mlg finals of which he won 2 vs 1 OSL, 1 SSL win and one IEM final edit: i even think MK should be higher on this list
Also while MK was beast for a time in GSTL, Maru was powerhouse in Proleague. Also Maru was a terran powerhouse while other terrans were failing all around - kind of like MC was a protoss beast while there were no other protoss consistently strong around.
It's not exactly obvious to put a bunch of second places and 2 MLGs over 2 actual korean starleagues.
On April 13 2015 03:28 Wampa181st wrote:
I'm really excited to see if puma shows up on this list
No
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On April 13 2015 03:30 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 03:24 Doodsmack wrote:On April 12 2015 23:05 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 23:00 Disarmed wrote:
its not getting embarrassing? The "discussion" was embarrassing, which is why it was closed. Everything that could be said has been said, and if new information comes to light that might warrant a thread. Until then, there is nothing to be gained by having a thread dedicated to a massive circular argument on TL. The fact that TL is stifling discussion about ongoing matchfixing in SC2 is what's embarassing. The importance of the issue in and of itself warrants a thread, period. But I guess TL wants it quiet just like Blizzard and KeSPA. Yeah TL is part of a massive conspiracy to cover this all up. If only they had allowed some people on this forum to keep saying the same thing over and over again/make baseless accusations then we would have all the answers about match fixing for sure!
That was a cool straw man but I still fail to see how closing discussion on arguably the most important issue facing the game is better in the long run.
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On April 13 2015 03:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2015 23:05 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 23:00 Disarmed wrote:
its not getting embarrassing? The "discussion" was embarrassing, which is why it was closed. Everything that could be said has been said, and if new information comes to light that might warrant a thread. Until then, there is nothing to be gained by having a thread dedicated to a massive circular argument on TL. The fact that TL is stifling discussion about ongoing matchfixing in SC2 is what's embarassing. The importance of the issue in and of itself warrants a thread, period. But I guess TL wants it quiet just like Blizzard and KeSPA.
I think you might be drinking a bit too much of the Kool-Aid if you believe that TL is part of some grand conspiracy to keep match fixing hush hush when they helped bring it to light when it happened in BW.
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On April 13 2015 04:20 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 03:30 Darkhorse wrote:On April 13 2015 03:24 Doodsmack wrote:On April 12 2015 23:05 Zealously wrote:On April 12 2015 23:00 Disarmed wrote:
its not getting embarrassing? The "discussion" was embarrassing, which is why it was closed. Everything that could be said has been said, and if new information comes to light that might warrant a thread. Until then, there is nothing to be gained by having a thread dedicated to a massive circular argument on TL. The fact that TL is stifling discussion about ongoing matchfixing in SC2 is what's embarassing. The importance of the issue in and of itself warrants a thread, period. But I guess TL wants it quiet just like Blizzard and KeSPA. Yeah TL is part of a massive conspiracy to cover this all up. If only they had allowed some people on this forum to keep saying the same thing over and over again/make baseless accusations then we would have all the answers about match fixing for sure! That was a cool straw man but I still fail to see how closing discussion on arguably the most important issue facing the game is better in the long run.
The "discussion" was uncivilized, hateful, respectless, and ultimately pointless as everything that needed to be said was said. There was nothing wrong with closing that thread. The discussion ran its course far before the thread was closed.
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