And now Flash says he lost to the build today because he didn't have it on the radar. Even after all the scandal around it he didn't know... Like others have already said, the game looks fishy in the context of the betting. But some of the conclusions drawn can have very simple other explanations.
So you can explain it with a simpler explanation than it was match fixing?
That was the whole point I was making earlier. We all have the information from the OP and the no one has any advantage in predictive power, so the explanation that makes the least assumptions (relies the most on the facts) is that the match was fixed.
Otherwise you go into crazy stories (assuming) and reasoning about why MK did what he did, and why the betting lines were such.
And you can't separate the betting lines from what happened, which is what you've been trying to do in this thread. They both happened and are correlated, you're taking the situation out of context when you separate them.
So please, where is that simple explanation for everything that happened?
Given the ratio of fixed matches to badly played matches, badly played is the simplest explanation. With the betting stuff it may be not, but you know, if you dont have enough information it is often better to not decide upon what you want to believe until you know more.
Oh come on. You can't call this a "badly played match". This transcends that to an absurd degree.
And now Flash says he lost to the build today because he didn't have it on the radar. Even after all the scandal around it he didn't know... Like others have already said, the game looks fishy in the context of the betting. But some of the conclusions drawn can have very simple other explanations.
So you can explain it with a simpler explanation than it was match fixing?
That was the whole point I was making earlier. We all have the information from the OP and the no one has any advantage in predictive power, so the explanation that makes the least assumptions (relies the most on the facts) is that the match was fixed.
Otherwise you go into crazy stories (assuming) and reasoning about why MK did what he did, and why the betting lines were such. And those assumptions could just as easily be turned around, which is why at the moment, we should on the facts as much as possible.
And you can't separate the betting lines from what happened, which is what you've been trying to do in this thread. They both happened and are correlated, you're taking the situation out of context when you separate them.
So please, where is that simple explanation for everything that happened?
The simple explanation is right here: the match was fixed.
This! I'm quite surprised by the amount of people that still believe it was just "badly played". MK threw this game on purpose, this is non debatable.
And now Flash says he lost to the build today because he didn't have it on the radar. Even after all the scandal around it he didn't know... Like others have already said, the game looks fishy in the context of the betting. But some of the conclusions drawn can have very simple other explanations.
So you can explain it with a simpler explanation than it was match fixing?
That was the whole point I was making earlier. We all have the information from the OP and the no one has any advantage in predictive power, so the explanation that makes the least assumptions (relies the most on the facts) is that the match was fixed.
Otherwise you go into crazy stories (assuming) and reasoning about why MK did what he did, and why the betting lines were such. And those assumptions could just as easily be turned around, which is why at the moment, we should on the facts as much as possible.
And you can't separate the betting lines from what happened, which is what you've been trying to do in this thread. They both happened and are correlated, you're taking the situation out of context when you separate them.
So please, where is that simple explanation for everything that happened?
The simple explanation is right here: the match was fixed.
This! I'm quite surprised by the amount of people that still believe it was just "badly played". MK threw this game on purpose, this is non debatable.
Exactly.
And there are two arguments against. The first is that it can be explained somehow easily, but then people realize it can't be explained easily so they move to the second, which is that we shouldn't judge because we don't have all the facts.
But we have enough facts to make a judgement. So they are wrong on both counts.
And I'd love to see their investing decisions, because the vast majority of decisions you make in life are based on judging something without know all the facts. Some people are good at it, some people aren't.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
It would be really nice if we finally get an official statement by MVP or KeSPA about this, has Lichter/ TL asked for this specifically regarding this match?
On March 27 2015 03:44 Penev wrote: It would be really nice if we finally get an official statement by MVP or KeSPA about this, has Lichter/ TL asked for this specifically regarding this match?
On March 27 2015 03:44 Penev wrote: It would be really nice if we finally get an official statement by MVP or KeSPA about this, has Lichter/ TL asked for this specifically regarding this match?
I bet ( tho I do never bet for money, so for lets make liquibet) we will never hear something from KESPA about it. And MVP will mostly say no more then "fuck you all, MK played just bad, gimme a break!"
This thread could get 100+ pages easily, while people circlejerking off about "did he?, did he not?" Half of the post is "what you stupid, obvious throw is obvious" (like my posts) while the other half will post like "justMKthings, cant judge, jury and stuff. Wait for investigation". As long this gets no investigation (or public does not know if there is a real one, this will go on. And after the iBuyPower thing I cannot accept that this has happend and all only say "wait wait justMKthings". It took 6 month till a journalist got all the needed stuff together, while valve just counting their skin money. And here KESPA and Blizzard do the same thing. Both parties now SC II will be dead in Korea forever, when this become public at a full scale. So lets do nothing, some thrown games dont hurt the sceen much, do they?
On March 27 2015 03:37 HungrySC2 wrote: So I'm just going to throw this out there again.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
So how long have you been involved in match fixing?
This build is incredibly easy to hold. First scout it, which MK did by accident. Second, remember that your base has a backdoor which a professional player forgot? Third, build bunkers and get Siege Tanks.
On March 27 2015 03:37 HungrySC2 wrote: So I'm just going to throw this out there again.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
So how long have you been involved in match fixing?
This build is incredibly easy to hold. First scout it, which MK did by accident. Second, remember that your base has a backdoor which a professional player forgot? Third, build bunkers and get Siege Tanks.
Remember that part where you prepare at least 3 days (after your team seeds you on that map) soly on that map against that one opponent. Yeah forgot the backdoor.
On March 27 2015 03:37 HungrySC2 wrote: So I'm just going to throw this out there again.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
What you are saying is actually extremely unlikely. Its actually in the same delusional area of theories as some Saudi prince throwing piles of money on pinnacle to destroy SC2.
On March 27 2015 03:44 Penev wrote: It would be really nice if we finally get an official statement by MVP or KeSPA about this, has Lichter/ TL asked for this specifically regarding this match?
On March 27 2015 03:37 HungrySC2 wrote: So I'm just going to throw this out there again.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
What you are saying is actually extremely unlikely. Its actually in the same delusional area of theories as some Saudi prince throwing piles of money on pinnacle to destroy SC2.
Forgot the backdoor happens to nearly everyone on this map, pros included. We even already saw a game where the 2 players were attacking opponent's backdoor without nothing own base' backdoor attacked (something like MKP vs Parting ? Or Inno vs Parting ? )
On March 27 2015 03:37 HungrySC2 wrote: So I'm just going to throw this out there again.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
So how long have you been involved in match fixing?
This build is incredibly easy to hold. First scout it, which MK did by accident. Second, remember that your base has a backdoor which a professional player forgot? Third, build bunkers and get Siege Tanks.
Well, i understand you nickname now. If you rush tanks without a wall you probably will die to the zergling flood. Then if you survive on 1 base by making tanks and bunkers, the zerg can simply go ahead and macro ^^ (you need at least some hellions before getting one tank to push out spine and queens )
Every MKP fan could probably mention 10 game when MKP play that bad or worse for no apparent reasons. In fact you could quote super-uber-terrible games on-stage for nearly every pro-gamer. That happens, and quite a lot.
Even if the bettors know Byul's build there is no build Byul could do that makes him an 11-1 favourite over Marineking if Marineking is trying to win in a best of 1 and that also doesn't explain any of Marineking's baffling decisions in the game if he's trying to win.
I probably beat Byul more than 1 in 11 times if I scout the build as early as Marineking did and i'm not even in Masters. Bunker. Get tanks. Crank out marine/tank, pull the boys, attack move to victory against 1 base zerg.
I don't think there is a single GM Terran in the world who that build is an 11-1 favourite against because it's so inherently risky, if scouted early it should in theory be a build order loss.
On March 27 2015 04:41 Swoopae wrote: I probably beat Byul more than 1 in 11 times if I scout the build as early as Marineking did and i'm not even in Masters.
On March 27 2015 04:41 Swoopae wrote: I probably beat Byul more than 1 in 11 times if I scout the build as early as Marineking did and i'm not even in Masters.
How much for ticket on crazy train?
Yes, because he totally didn't mean "hard to lose to" by that sentence. Good god..
On March 27 2015 03:37 HungrySC2 wrote: So I'm just going to throw this out there again.
I think it's more likely that someone found out what build Byul was going to use. If I knew that Byul was going to use that build against marineking I'd bet everything on Byul. Why... because he's playing marineking. These kinds of things aren't easy to hold even if you see them. (Nestea GSL finals spine rush vs. protoss FE).
Marineking has always been known for not caring what the opponent is doing. Some of the time he gets away with it. Some of the time he losses in the most embarassing ways possible. This is more of the same.
What you are saying is actually extremely unlikely. Its actually in the same delusional area of theories as some Saudi prince throwing piles of money on pinnacle to destroy SC2.
Nigerian prince, please. At least do it right (;
Technically it was the message about the flash interview that has no connection whatsoever with this thread besides the BO. I was just the one that pointed out the connection in a semi-serious way. :-)
EPT
Even after all the scandal around it he didn't know...
