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with just the VOD, it is hard to tell the whole story, wish we had replay at hand.
The only time frame he could start seeing the creep is roughly 5:38 (minimap)
This is what it looks like (minimap):
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b7btkwr.png)
a few in game seconds later the CC finishes and you could see his reaction is delayed as the vision takes some time to fully expand. (main screen, not just the minimap)
If Byul placed his spine in one pixel off, he should be able to see the creep on the minimap and it would have been a completely different game.
how many would have guessed the white spot is a spine when there is no creep in the area?
I have to agree fully with some posters here.
The betting stats are far more suspicious.
The actual gameplay almost does not matter because he could have fixed it in another way as well.
I don't think there is bonus for losing the game quickly/more dumb.
I am interested in what MKP was doing during the high ground CC construction though, I don't see much unit/building selection from him.
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at this point is more reasonable that mk is throwing games since ever than he is really this bad at the game XD
what about ingame sounds? i think you should hear lings attacking the rocks perhaps
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On March 26 2015 00:28 ETisME wrote:with just the VOD, it is hard to tell the whole story, wish we had replay at hand. The only time frame he could start seeing the creep is roughly 5:38 (and that has to be on minimap) This is what it looks like: a few in game seconds later the CC finishes and you could see his reaction is delayed as the vision takes some time to fully expand. (main screen, not just the minimap) If Byul placed his spine in one pixel off, he should be able to see the creep on the minimap and it would have been a completely different game. how many can guess it is a spine when there is no creep in the minimap? I have to agree fully with some posters here. The betting stats are far more suspicious. The actual gameplay almost does not matter because he could have fixed it in another way as well, I don't think there is bonus for losing the game quickly/more dumb. I am interested in what MKP was doing during the high ground CC construction though, I don't see much unit/building selection from him.
Aeromi has the replay. I asked him if it would be possible for him maybe make a vod with MK's vision but he didn't respond.
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On March 26 2015 00:27 Swoopae wrote:
4 lines voided not 2. The other two were Map 1s of series (see previous posts of mine for details)
I've never had a bet voided in any other sport over a sample of a few thousand bets in major sports. I believe there was one case of Davydenko allegedly throwing a tennis match (google to find it) and i'm sure it has happened in other sports although I can't think of examples. Match fixing was rampant in Boxing a while ago, not sure if it still is as I don't follow it.
I don't have a significant betting sample in any other esport though so I don't know but i'm under the impression it's really rare for wagers to be cancelled and it's happened four times in a couple months in Starcraft 2 now with several other matches under suspicion.
And Opisska, fighting against match fixing is obviously in everybody's best interest, e-sport won't grow to its full potential while there's corruption it keeps major sponsors away which is bad for esports in general. Pinnacle are not financially benefiting in any way by cancelling the wagers though all bettors are refunded their money, if anything they're losing money by making their potential customers less likely to bet on esports by exposing corruption/matchfixing in the industry.
I am under the impression that match fixing is pretty common is traditional sports. Here in France over the last two/three years (don't remember the exact dates) we had at least two reasonably big match fixing scandals happen (one in Handball, one in Football), and that's only the one I heard of, while I'm relatively uninterested in the sports scene.
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On March 26 2015 00:31 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 00:28 ETisME wrote:with just the VOD, it is hard to tell the whole story, wish we had replay at hand. The only time frame he could start seeing the creep is roughly 5:38 (and that has to be on minimap) This is what it looks like: a few in game seconds later the CC finishes and you could see his reaction is delayed as the vision takes some time to fully expand. (main screen, not just the minimap) If Byul placed his spine in one pixel off, he should be able to see the creep on the minimap and it would have been a completely different game. how many can guess it is a spine when there is no creep in the minimap? I have to agree fully with some posters here. The betting stats are far more suspicious. The actual gameplay almost does not matter because he could have fixed it in another way as well, I don't think there is bonus for losing the game quickly/more dumb. I am interested in what MKP was doing during the high ground CC construction though, I don't see much unit/building selection from him. Aeromi has the replay. I asked him if it would be possible for him maybe make a vod with MK's vision but he didn't respond.
I'm pretty sure that that would greatly hinder the relationship between O'Gaming and KeSPA lol.
On March 26 2015 00:28 ETisME wrote:with just the VOD, it is hard to tell the whole story, wish we had replay at hand. The only time frame he could start seeing the creep is roughly 5:38 (minimap) This is what it looks like (minimap): a few in game seconds later the CC finishes and you could see his reaction is delayed as the vision takes some time to fully expand. (main screen, not just the minimap) If Byul placed his spine in one pixel off, he should be able to see the creep on the minimap and it would have been a completely different game. how many would have guessed the white spot is a spine when there is no creep in the area? I have to agree fully with some posters here.The betting stats are far more suspicious. The actual gameplay almost does not matter because he could have fixed it in another way as well. I don't think there is bonus for losing the game quickly/more dumb. I am interested in what MKP was doing during the high ground CC construction though, I don't see much unit/building selection from him.
I dunno what he's doing either, but his APM remains reasonably high. The fact that he doesn't do much with his reapers is the real deal though.
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People saying he could've fixed it in any other way aren't really taking into account that he knows he has to lose but is forced into making it the dumbest game in history of sc2 when he unwillingly spots the proxy. It's either that or winning a game that he has promised to lose. Allegedly.
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On March 26 2015 00:34 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 00:31 Penev wrote:On March 26 2015 00:28 ETisME wrote:with just the VOD, it is hard to tell the whole story, wish we had replay at hand. The only time frame he could start seeing the creep is roughly 5:38 (and that has to be on minimap) This is what it looks like: a few in game seconds later the CC finishes and you could see his reaction is delayed as the vision takes some time to fully expand. (main screen, not just the minimap) If Byul placed his spine in one pixel off, he should be able to see the creep on the minimap and it would have been a completely different game. how many can guess it is a spine when there is no creep in the minimap? I have to agree fully with some posters here. The betting stats are far more suspicious. The actual gameplay almost does not matter because he could have fixed it in another way as well, I don't think there is bonus for losing the game quickly/more dumb. I am interested in what MKP was doing during the high ground CC construction though, I don't see much unit/building selection from him. Aeromi has the replay. I asked him if it would be possible for him maybe make a vod with MK's vision but he didn't respond. I'm pretty sure that that would greatly hinder the relationship between O'Gaming and KeSPA lol.
Yeah probably. He did already comment on it though.
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On March 26 2015 00:35 nkr wrote:
People saying he could've fixed it in any other way aren't really taking into account that he knows he has to lose but is forced into making it the dumbest game in history of sc2 when he unwillingly spots the proxy. It's either that or winning a game that he has promised to lose. Allegedly.
do you think it is easier to fake he didn't see a proxy building (and so fortunate that there was no creep in minimap) and build a 3CC
or just pretend he failed to react properly and lose to it?
he could very well use the reaper to kill off the spine but pretend to had the depot opened and lings got in etcetc.
lots of ways to "lose" a game.
I hope someone can give some idea how to spot whether someone is match fixing in a more objective way.
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On March 26 2015 00:42 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 00:35 nkr wrote:
People saying he could've fixed it in any other way aren't really taking into account that he knows he has to lose but is forced into making it the dumbest game in history of sc2 when he unwillingly spots the proxy. It's either that or winning a game that he has promised to lose. Allegedly. do you think it is easier to fake he didn't see a proxy building (and so fortunate that there was no creep in minimap) and build a 3CC or just pretend he failed to react properly and lose to it? he could very well use the reaper to kill off the spine but pretend to had the depot opened and lings got in etcetc. lots of ways to "lose" a game. I hope someone can give some idea how to spot whether someone is match fixing in a more objective way.
any reaction automatically wins that game... he made the only thing that loses him the game, which is nothing
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For the record here is the most detail Pinnacle would give me in an email on their reasons for cancelling
Dear Client,
Your wager was canceled due to a general pattern of suspicious betting activity in this match. All wagers, from all customers, were canceled. We are not accusing you of participating in any of the suspicious activity.
However, Pinnacle Sports, in these very rare circumstances, will protect all customers when we feel it warranted.
Kind Regards,
Customer Service Department / Pinnacle Sports
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On March 25 2015 04:39 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 04:28 Jono7272 wrote:
Looks pretty bad this time, but surely if MKP was going to throw he's smart enough to do it in a better way than that..? I guess pressure would affect that though.
Byul is also the better player, MKP would have most likely lost even if it wasn't such a weird game. He didn't scout it intentionally though. When the CC got started, the Reaper was pushed down so it scouted the Spine. Unlucky for Marineking as that probably destroyed his career.
I don't think this was the case. If you look closely, you can see him moving his Reaper manually to a position where it does spot the Spine and it stayes there even after the CC is started.
Beside that, I agree this looks super suspicious and it will probably end up badly for MKP and whole SC2 scene.
edit: nvm. was answered earlier, ignore this post.
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Bisutopia19225 Posts
As a colorblind person, I might not notice that.
edit:The color actually looks like neutral critters/artifacts from SC1.
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On March 26 2015 00:27 Swoopae wrote:
4 lines voided not 2. The other two were Map 1s of series (see previous posts of mine for details)
I've never had a bet voided in any other sport over a sample of a few thousand bets in major sports. I believe there was one case of Davydenko allegedly throwing a tennis match (google to find it) and i'm sure it has happened in other sports although I can't think of examples. Match fixing was rampant in Boxing a while ago, not sure if it still is as I don't follow it.
I don't have a significant betting sample in any other esport though so I don't know but i'm under the impression it's really rare for wagers to be cancelled and it's happened four times in a couple months in Starcraft 2 now with several other matches under suspicion.
And Opisska, fighting against match fixing is obviously in everybody's best interest, e-sport won't grow to its full potential while there's corruption it keeps major sponsors away which is bad for esports in general. Pinnacle are not financially benefiting in any way by cancelling the wagers though all bettors are refunded their money, if anything they're losing money by making their potential customers less likely to bet on esports by exposing corruption/matchfixing in the industry.
actual fighting would be in everyone's interest, but that is not what pinnacle does or can do. they are a for profit company and they understandably do what is besy for them. i don't understand why we should watch that in awe like a divine revelation. they are not making money on the cancelation itself but thet know well that they would be losing money in the long run if fixing became rampant. so they are better safe then sorry and show a strong fist. but safe for them is pretty dangerous for us - but they just dont have any reason to care about that.
pinnacle has absolutely zero accountability with respect to anyone in sc2. they are totally free to void anything they feel like and do not have to explain themselves to anyone. do we really want someone in this position to have a major influence on the whole scene and people's careers?
if someone respected in sc2 came forward with proof of fixing, i am ready with my pitchfork. but i am not gonna raise it because of pinnacle.
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On March 26 2015 00:47 Swoopae wrote:
For the record here is the most detail Pinnacle would give me in an email on their reasons for cancelling
Dear Client,
Your wager was canceled due to a general pattern of suspicious betting activity in this match. All wagers, from all customers, were canceled. We are not accusing you of participating in any of the suspicious activity.
However, Pinnacle Sports, in these very rare circumstances, will protect all customers when we feel it warranted.
Kind Regards,
Customer Service Department / Pinnacle Sports
I got this same reply. I pressed them further to provide me with any more explanation and this is what I received:
Dear Client,
As stated in our previous email, we have cancelled all wagers on this particular game because there was a pattern detected of wagering on the game that has been determined to be suspicious. We have a responsibility to all of our customers to ensure that any suspicious play is taken seriously and where necessary all wagers on these games will be cancelled.
Pinnacle Sports works with the governing body of many of the leagues we offer bets for, and it is also our duty to ensure that they are effectively communicated with as soon as we detect any suspicious activity.
This action is taken to protect our customers and the integrity of our product, and we are not in a position to reconsider this decision.
Kind Regards,
Customer Service Department / Pinnacle Sports
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On March 26 2015 00:56 opisska wrote:
if someone respected in sc2 came forward with proof of fixing, i am ready with my pitchfork. but i am not gonna raise it because of pinnacle.
Welmu and Rekrul both posted their thoughts in this very thread.
I feel like Rekrul and Welmu's posts should be in the OP along with my explanation of how the money would have had to have been bet on Byul piece by piece to win something like 1k at a time at increasinly worse prices and potentially the full list of matches that were cancelled by pinnacle
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 26 2015 00:51 BisuDagger wrote:As a colorblind person, I might not notice that. edit:The color actually looks like neutral critters/artifacts from SC1.
Holy Batman on a nuclear powered pogo stick.
I would never imagine that pros don't use allied colors. I once overlooked for 40 minutes(blizzard minutes) a warp prism in my main because my training partner had pink and the background color was pink too(Cloud Kingdom, main base at the top). From that day I use allied colors and I thought that pros would do the same, just to be super sure.
I really hope that MK would be proven innocent. I like his play(although I have him on my anti-team  )
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On March 26 2015 00:51 BisuDagger wrote:As a colorblind person, I might not notice that. edit:The color actually looks like neutral critters/artifacts from SC1.
Stupid question as i don't remember but... Is an overlord the same size as a constructing spine on the minimap ? I haven't played in a looooong time.
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On March 26 2015 00:08 opisska wrote:
i give the exact same amounts of fucks as i gave the last time a betting company i don't care about did the same selfish thing to help their business,
that is, zero. and you all should do the same if you care about sc2. our whole scene should not be destroyable at the whim of some bookmakers.
Indeed, when one of the largest betting companies there is and their highly sophisticated betting analyzing tool notifies that there is something off with one of the matches, they shouldn't do a thing, because that's selfish. How exactly do you think that this is going to benefit their business?
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Bisutopia19225 Posts
On March 26 2015 01:21 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 00:51 BisuDagger wrote:As a colorblind person, I might not notice that. edit:The color actually looks like neutral critters/artifacts from SC1. Stupid question as i don't remember but... Is an overlord the same size as a constructing spine on the minimap ? I haven't played in a looooong time.
I couldn't answer that with certainty so...yes! :D
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EPT
