|
On March 25 2015 23:01 NicksonReyes wrote:Btw, in addition to not using his reapers to scout, it seems like he didn't even intend to scout the gold bases. By about 3:27(game time) I believe he just sent his scv straight back to his base. It looks like it just 'pathfound' its way back, so I assume he never selected that scv again after that point. Yeah if the hatch was in one of the gold bases, he would've seen it, but I just expected to see him issue move commands on both golds then send the scv somewhere else. I understand that he might be afraid to lose his reapers to speedlings(which won't be out for long) but I just don't see the point in not letting that scv roam around the map(or even idle in front of his natural ramp) to know precisely when the bust is happening. Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 21:06 Big J wrote:
- the reapers can't hop up and down on Expedition Lost! The only way out is through the main ramp, and then the natural ramp. MK checked for a proxy hatch in the natural which wasn't there, so under the assumption of a frontal attack, just keeping the reapers behind his wall makes sense (no cliff escape). + Show Spoiler [maybe] +
woops. I watched until the CC was built multiple times, must have stopped right before that and sincerely thought you can't hop up and down by looking at the overview.
That's what you get when you always 1rax and CC first on this map ^^
|
Pro wrestling betting limits are minuscule on scripted events and no serious book offers them at limits above micro stakes to attract customers. No one can bet tens of thousands of dollars on pro wrestling.
Zenith: No idea how many accounts would be needed, Pinnacle does welcome winning accounts but obviously it would need to be a bunch or the fixing would be obvious. Not all of the money is bet on Pinnacle either, other books like the bitcoin ones and korean ones do offer esports betting, I think unibet does now too and a few others it's just the one with the biggest limits that offers SC2 betting so it's obviously an attractive target for matchfixers
|
Yeah ok, thank you Swoopae.
|
On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again.
Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man.
That´s off topic though.
I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted
|
On March 25 2015 23:28 Homunculus159 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again. Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man. That´s off topic though. I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted
FFS, when will people stop to compare mkp²'s "mistake" to the one maru did (or JD, lol)
MKP² didn't spot an enemy building on his map AT THE START of a game, he didn't micro anything during that time.
There was no multitask needed.
This IS NOT comparable to the other games being mentioned here.
|
On March 25 2015 23:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 23:28 Homunculus159 wrote:On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again. Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man. That´s off topic though. I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted FFS, when will people stop to compare mkp²'s "mistake" to the one maru did (or JD, lol) MKP² didn't spot an enemy building on his map AT THE START of a game, he didn't micro anything during that time. There was no multitask needed. This IS NOT comparable to the other games being mentioned here.
Don't forget the scouting of the late pool + no natural into not scouting for the proxy (and obviously Pinnacle voiding the bet). But yeah, this just will keep on happening if people just read the OP and nothing more..
|
On March 25 2015 23:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 23:28 Homunculus159 wrote:On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again. Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man. That´s off topic though. I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted FFS, when will people stop to compare mkp²'s "mistake" to the one maru did (or JD, lol) MKP² didn't spot an enemy building on his map AT THE START of a game, he didn't micro anything during that time. There was no multitask needed. This IS NOT comparable to the other games being mentioned here.
Easy there :D
As far as I recall Maru was not really doing anything Micro intensive other than maybe rallying his banshees.
It is very suspicious and all and I am
not saying MK is innocent, but it wouldnt be the first very dumb mistake he makes that makes him lose the game.
Was there any closure on the San match were there supposedly was match fixing?
Edit: Ok now watched the game. This is indeed extremely suspicious. Dammit MK
|
On March 25 2015 23:35 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 23:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 25 2015 23:28 Homunculus159 wrote:On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again. Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man. That´s off topic though. I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted FFS, when will people stop to compare mkp²'s "mistake" to the one maru did (or JD, lol) MKP² didn't spot an enemy building on his map AT THE START of a game, he didn't micro anything during that time. There was no multitask needed. This IS NOT comparable to the other games being mentioned here. Don't forget the scouting of the late pool + no natural into not scouting for the proxy (and obviously Pinnacle voiding the bet). But yeah, this just will keep on happening if people just read the OP and nothing more..
Yeah exactly, he saw the pool and gas timing, he knew there can't be any speedlings.
Why wouldn't he use his reapers?
Let's say he didn't fix the match (i think it is more likely he did, but let's just assume he didn't)
He shouldn't play any more games in PL no matter what, that was incredibly bad, pls field tangtang instead.
|
On March 25 2015 23:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 23:35 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 23:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 25 2015 23:28 Homunculus159 wrote:On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again. Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man. That´s off topic though. I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted FFS, when will people stop to compare mkp²'s "mistake" to the one maru did (or JD, lol) MKP² didn't spot an enemy building on his map AT THE START of a game, he didn't micro anything during that time. There was no multitask needed. This IS NOT comparable to the other games being mentioned here. Don't forget the scouting of the late pool + no natural into not scouting for the proxy (and obviously Pinnacle voiding the bet). But yeah, this just will keep on happening if people just read the OP and nothing more.. Yeah exactly, he saw the pool and gas timing, he knew there can't be any speedlings. Why wouldn't he use his reapers? Let's say he didn't fix the match (i think it is more likely he did, but let's just assume he didn't) He shouldn't play any more games in PL no matter what, that was incredibly bad, pls field tangtang instead.
TANGTANG? You mean Choya is going to buy the whole of Prime now?
And Maru wasn't microing anything, look at the replay. He was cycling between his bases, producing units and dropping MULEs.
|
This is just so bad for starcraft. I'm not going to go out and say he is guilty 100% but there are serious doubts now in my mind about the legitimacy of any game played especially with somebody as esteemed as Rek posting about just how rampant this is.
The only thing I can say though while absolutely completely circumstantial is that me as a diamond league NA scrub Terran never in a million fucking years would I Ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever see no natural see no gold bases taken see the gas and pool timing and throw down the third cc. It is just so freaking weird. You can talk about maybe not seeing the proxy or not noticing the stuff right outside the base but to scout the lack of seriously ANYTHING and then to drop an early third command. That choice is what makes me think the throw happened.
|
On March 25 2015 23:45 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2015 23:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 25 2015 23:35 Penev wrote:On March 25 2015 23:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On March 25 2015 23:28 Homunculus159 wrote:On March 25 2015 23:12 sixfour wrote:On March 25 2015 13:37 asongdotnet wrote:On March 25 2015 13:32 ElMeanYo wrote:
Guys, does it really matter if match fixing is rampant? I mean, look at pro-wrestling. Everyone knows its fake but it is still hugely popular with millions of fans.
It's all a show, you just have to use your imagination and pretend it isn't fantasy.
Except people don't bet real money on fake wrestling. Try a better analogy next time Undertaker losing busted my Wrestlemania accumulator last year and I'm busy trying to work out which of Brock/Reigns is the smart line. Try again. Since they want Reigns to be the next top guy I guess he is the better pick but Brock just resigned and Vince is a mad man. That´s off topic though. I dunno about this whole thing. We would need the Replay I believe and even then it is hard to prove because it is MarineKing. He regurarly makes dumb mistakes. Maru did not spot the nydus in his base either at the IEM. Lots of pros do dumb mistakes and when it comes to marineking he is actually the king of dumb mistakes getting easily tilted FFS, when will people stop to compare mkp²'s "mistake" to the one maru did (or JD, lol) MKP² didn't spot an enemy building on his map AT THE START of a game, he didn't micro anything during that time. There was no multitask needed. This IS NOT comparable to the other games being mentioned here. Don't forget the scouting of the late pool + no natural into not scouting for the proxy (and obviously Pinnacle voiding the bet). But yeah, this just will keep on happening if people just read the OP and nothing more.. Yeah exactly, he saw the pool and gas timing, he knew there can't be any speedlings. Why wouldn't he use his reapers? Let's say he didn't fix the match (i think it is more likely he did, but let's just assume he didn't) He shouldn't play any more games in PL no matter what, that was incredibly bad, pls field tangtang instead. TANGTANG? You mean Choya is going to buy the whole of Prime now? And Maru wasn't microing anything, look at the replay. He was cycling between his bases, producing units and dropping MULEs.
Haha yeah (prime, mvp, all the same for me -.-)
He at least was on 3 bases and had units out on the map, a nydus also finishes faster than the time MKP had to react.
It is not comparable. I didn't watch the replay, so i can't say what Maru did exactly though
|
The wierd thing is why would a matchfixer bet so much money on a match, that the lines become suspicious. They knew from the san dark match that pinnacle will voids bets when the match becomes suspicious.
|
On March 25 2015 23:47 Grizvok wrote:
This is just so bad for starcraft. I'm not going to go out and say he is guilty 100% but there are serious doubts now in my mind about the legitimacy of any game played especially with somebody as esteemed as Rek posting about just how rampant this is.
Your position shouldn't have changed tho. There's no reason to doubt any of the games where pinnacle didn't void the bets. And for those, we were told already before today that an investigation is ongoing (I believe it was lichter who had been told that by a contact in kespa, right?), so you should be in the same state about those that you already were.
|
Wait we were told before today an investigation was ongoing? When? By who? Link? I don't recall that although it seems more likely after today that there will be one moving forward
@Bartcraft the reason is twofold and simple - greed, and many criminals are dumb. It's possible there are many such games that were fixed and only bet on for smaller amounts and not detected/bets cancelled, we don't know and won't know without an investigation. It's just the obvious ones where absurd sums were bet on a player who then loses in suspicious fashion that are so obvious that something isn't right that the problem has been brought to everyone's attention
|
i give the exact same amounts of fucks as i gave the last time a betting company i don't care about did the same selfish thing to help their business,
that is, zero. and you all should do the same if you care about sc2. our whole scene should not be destroyable at the whim of some bookmakers.
|
On March 26 2015 00:08 opisska wrote:
i give the exact same amounts of fucks as i gave the last time a betting company i don't care about did the same selfish thing to help their business,
that is, zero. and you all should do the same if you care about sc2. our whole scene should not be destroyable at the whim of some bookmakers.
this does not help their business in any way, if anything it's hurting them..
|
As far as I recall Maru was not really doing anything Micro intensive other than maybe rallying his banshees.
It is very suspicious and all and I am
So in the early game of TvZ, after you spent some time harrassing you typically need to go back to your base and "catch up" in terms of infastructure/macro, so when I looked at it from Maru's perspective, he had good reason to be occupied, though it obviously still was a bad error from him.
|
On March 26 2015 00:10 Rocket-Bear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2015 00:08 opisska wrote:
i give the exact same amounts of fucks as i gave the last time a betting company i don't care about did the same selfish thing to help their business,
that is, zero. and you all should do the same if you care about sc2. our whole scene should not be destroyable at the whim of some bookmakers. this does not help their business in any way, if anything it's hurting them..
what? "fighting against betfixers" is surely a good business strategy. the more they do it, the more reliable they seem. if they manage to smack down on fixers, they improve the atmosphere and encourage legir people to bet and make more money. if they let fixers loose, they whole business goes south.
|
I don't know much about this betting world, but could someone enlighten me on how often bets are voided in other sports/e-sports, on pinnacle and other betting site?
Does it happen oftenly or is sc2 being a black sheep here with those 2 betting lines voided?
|
4 lines voided not 2. The other two were Map 1s of series (see previous posts of mine for details)
I've never had a bet voided in any other sport over a sample of a few thousand bets in major sports. I believe there was one case of Davydenko allegedly throwing a tennis match (google to find it) and i'm sure it has happened in other sports although I can't think of examples. Match fixing was rampant in Boxing a while ago, not sure if it still is as I don't follow it.
I don't have a significant betting sample in any other esport though so I don't know but i'm under the impression it's really rare for wagers to be cancelled and it's happened four times in a couple months in Starcraft 2 now with several other matches under suspicion.
And Opisska, fighting against match fixing is obviously in everybody's best interest, e-sport won't grow to its full potential while there's corruption it keeps major sponsors away which is bad for esports in general. Pinnacle are not financially benefiting in any way by cancelling the wagers though all bettors are refunded their money, if anything they're losing money by making their potential customers less likely to bet on esports by exposing corruption/matchfixing in the industry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KqySo5T.png)
