EPTImplementation of a new race in SC2? - Page 2
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
- harder to balance - harder to design fun gameplay... think of it, we have 6matchups already and some matchups aren't that great but there is little you can do about it without fucking the rest. With 4races you have 10 matchups... - harder to get people to watch games/tournaments because "their race" is playing much less. and then you'd get big issues with implementing it competitively into the existing game: - people have no clue about the fundamentals: Say there is a macro mechanic like inject... this takes a few months to figure out how important it is and how to implement it into gameplay - there are no control routines and hotkey setups - because of all that above, balance would wildly swing for months. The race would be severely underplayed at first unless it was severely broken to make up with the inexperience. Than a lot of patches would have to fix the balance later on which makes it very hard to find a consistent playstyle with it as it would be up to blizzard to decide what to keep and what to throw out. A lot of players would be very frustrated playing with or against it due to that. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
I also believe that a time will come in maybe 5-10 years, when the game will have to be given something fresh, something new, to keep the interest of players. Obviously there is Legacy coming up soon, that will bring some freshness to the scene and it will also take some time to balance it appropriately, but its effect will not last forever. If ever SC3 is made, I think adding a new race is an excellent way to raise people's attention. I personally wouldn't mind changes in the game before that, making maps/units/etc. a bit more "free", less rigid, as OtherWorld said. And no, it would definitely not make SC the top eSport again (although who knows what happens till then), but it could make the whole game feel a bit less stale. By the way, I just recently thought about how awesome it would be to create a mod with the Hybrid as a playable race. There are even whole unit models for that, so it would actually be possible. Too bad I'm not good at making stuff like that...  | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
On March 16 2015 23:47 Ctone23 wrote: I see the complexity jump being comparable to jumping from 3 ^3 to 4 ^4 (27 and 256 respectively). I know that's a pretty vague statement, and i'm not saying it can't be done. I just think that the game would have to be re-designed from the ground up (units wise) for all four races. If not, then the fourth race would be a mix/match of unit types that are already in the game to somehow fit into the current build of counters, which doesn't sound very much like a Blizzard game to me. Yeah, I agree that if the other races are left mostly untouched, it may be hard to fit in exciting new units into the existing game. I don't get those numbers, though. For 3 races, there are 6 different matchups that have to be balanced (and 3 of them are mirrors, so technically already balanced). For 4 races, there would be 10 mathcups, 4 of which are mirrors. So I believe the complexity jump would not be as bad as you said, but I concede it may be difficult (not impossible, though). | ||
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Connor987
United Kingdom103 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On March 17 2015 00:17 Connor987 wrote: if anything we should be removing Protoss and making a balanced TvZ matchup that is fun to watch instead of PvP finals in every tournament Life or Maru arent in, let alone adding new races wtf. Although adding another race would decrease the chance of pvp finals as well . | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On March 17 2015 00:17 Connor987 wrote: if anything we should be removing Protoss and making a balanced TvZ matchup that is fun to watch instead of PvP finals in every tournament Life or Maru arent in, let alone adding new races wtf. Subtle balance whine yo | ||
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Elentos
55570 Posts
On March 16 2015 23:28 Big J wrote: and then you'd get big issues with implementing it competitively into the existing game: - people have no clue about the fundamentals: Say there is a macro mechanic like inject... this takes a few months to figure out how important it is and how to implement it into gameplay - there are no control routines and hotkey setups - because of all that above, balance would wildly swing for months. The race would be severely underplayed at first unless it was severely broken to make up with the inexperience. Than a lot of patches would have to fix the balance later on which makes it very hard to find a consistent playstyle with it as it would be up to blizzard to decide what to keep and what to throw out. A lot of players would be very frustrated playing with or against it due to that. This is the main issue imo. It would be completely new, with at least one macro mechanic distinctly different from the current races. It would be interesting, sure, but it would completely break everything. And then, at the pro level, how many players would switch races to that unless it's blatantly OP? Not very many I would assume. The focus is on Protoss, Terran and Zerg, those are the races where you can learn some basics in the campaigns, that's what you can find guides etc. for, so that's what new players start with. That's why a new race in SC2 just seems like a bad idea. SC3 starting out with 4 races would work, but just adding one to SC2 years after release? Nah. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32746 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45448 Posts
On March 17 2015 00:48 PhoenixVoid wrote: I'd prefer three very well balanced and complex races than a fourth one which may sacrifice the aforementioned qualities to a good race in a RTS. Fourth race would be interesting but only adds more challenge to the newbie friendly landscape. Agreed. Plus, it makes no sense in SC2. Adding an entire fourth race in the final expansion doesn't allow for any growth/ new units of this fourth race. I'd say it'd be an interesting idea for SC3, but based on the storyline, I have no idea what this fourth race/ species could possibly be, let alone how to balance it or make it interesting/ novel compared to T/Z/P. | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32746 Posts
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Cinek357
Poland119 Posts
Yes, we could all argue if bringing 4th race would be the most accurate way to improve SC2. It would be harder to balance the game, pro players would need time to learn how to play competitively etc. Instead, we could just focus on improving the game and avoid all the chaos. But if you think about it... adding a new race would certainly create massive HYPE. It could even interest people who have stopped playing SC2 or any RTS games long time ago. A lot of people would be like "Oh my, new race! I must see that!". If Blizzard would do it right (good balance, interesting units etc), everyone gains. More people would be interested in purchasing the game, so Blizzard earns more money. Tournaments would attract larger viewership because matchups are more diversed and in the beginning there would also be a lot of 'new race hype'. With more people interested in Starcraft we would get more sponsors to support pro players, so our scene grows overall. We can't just focus only on creating a balanced, competetive game, we need to create more hype as well to attract more casual players and viewers. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4070 Posts
today we have 6 matchups, 3 of which is mirrors and 3 non-mirrors. with 4 races we can have 10 matchups, 4 mirrors and 6 non-mirrors. Based on the fact that most boring matchups are usually mirrors, i would say that 6 non-mirrors is better than 3 non-mirrors. On another note if balancing only 3 matchups is so crazy hard, think about balancing 6 of them. Crazy! PS. this being said i would still not want to have a 4th race in sc2. Let it be some other game. | ||
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Kazahk
United States385 Posts
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