EPTUpdate on HotS Balance - December 3 - Page 7
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Entropy137
Canada215 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
3 Widow Mines to kill one zealot is enough. | ||
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XPA
Germany242 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On December 04 2014 05:45 Big J wrote: Na, I'm just courious since he says that there are only 4good terrans that won tournaments, but I counted 7 different tournament winners. Hence, 3 of them have to be bad players by his statement. And there's Skyhigh and Marineking with recent good results. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On December 04 2014 05:54 Lunareste wrote: Honestly, upping the amount of shots needed to kill Protoss with Widow Mines is just increasing the amount of times that the Terran army is going to get hit too. 3 Widow Mines to kill one zealot is enough. 3 Widow Mines already kill 3 Zealots. The splash from them is also enough to kill like 5 more Zealots. When you think of the units that die directly from the shots, the units that die from the splash, and the units that die before they can even engage the Terran army, Widow Mines are very strong. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Skyhigh, Marineking, ForGG are not good Terrans. They are mediocre Terrans winning/getting far in big tournaments at the same time that world class Protoss and Zerg players are dropping out. ForGG went 6-3 vs Life at Dreamhack. In the last game he opened 2 factory BFH, had it completely shut down, then just plopped down 6 barracks and won anyway. He did essentially the worst possible build and beat one of the best Zergs. Mediocre Terrans winning with dumb builds = imba, honestly. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On December 04 2014 05:07 Cheren wrote: First, instant hellbat transformation. Hellbats are way too common in TvZ now, the upgrade should be re-added with maybe a lower research time and cost. Hellbats are too common? Yeah, I guess if you want 9/10 TvZs to be MMMWM into perpetuity, then you might say Hellbats are too common. Some people don't horribly mind having more totally viable units injecting fresh life into the meta. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 04 2014 06:00 DinoMight wrote: People said the same thing about Protoss when Protoss was OP: Skyhigh, Marineking, ForGG are not good Terrans. They are mediocre Terrans winning/getting far in big tournaments at the same time that world class Protoss and Zerg players are dropping out. Please don't go there. It's never the players fault that they are winning. All those "our players are better than yours" are disgusting implicit player bashes. | ||
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
On December 04 2014 06:00 DinoMight wrote: People said the same thing about Protoss when Protoss was OP: Skyhigh, Marineking, ForGG are not good Terrans. They are mediocre Terrans winning/getting far in big tournaments at the same time that world class Protoss and Zerg players are dropping out. ForGG went 6-3 vs Life at Dreamhack. In the last game he opened 2 factory BFH, had it completely shut down, then just plopped down 6 barracks and won anyway. He did essentially the worst possible build and beat one of the best Zergs. Mediocre Terrans winning with dumb builds = imba, honestly. Stop whining. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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KMART561
United States24 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 04 2014 06:05 KMART561 wrote: So he starts out by saying we have noticed that Zerg is underperforming and having a tough time and we want to address that and then jumps straight to talking about the widow mine for TvP usage.....what in the hell does that have to do with Zerg? The map pool even when it wasnt the dream pool Terran was still raping and Zerg was still underperforming so.... golden post timing :D | ||
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HEADD
Czech Republic611 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141122020150/thehungergames/images/f/f9/Famous-characters-Troll-face-Troll-face-poker-45046.png) Actually I find it very interesting that they're not addressing that at all.... I think honestly it's because in TvP there is a clear thing to put their finger on (widow mines and maps) whereas in TvZ they are a bit more lost. Zergs lose games where mines aren't even made because of metagame choices made assuming the Terran would play standard... so it's hard to figure out whether it's the Hellbat or the Mines or the upgrades.. but there is SOMETHING going on that needs tweaking. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On December 04 2014 06:00 DinoMight wrote: People said the same thing about Protoss when Protoss was OP: Skyhigh, Marineking, ForGG are not good Terrans. They are mediocre Terrans winning/getting far in big tournaments at the same time that world class Protoss and Zerg players are dropping out. ForGG went 6-3 vs Life at Dreamhack. In the last game he opened 2 factory BFH, had it completely shut down, then just plopped down 6 barracks and won anyway. He did essentially the worst possible build and beat one of the best Zergs. Mediocre Terrans winning with dumb builds = imba, honestly. ??? How can you call someone who made an all-kill in BW proleague a mediocre player? ForGG won that game because he let his opponent think he was going mech, then went bio instead while the zerg had already invested heavily into swarm hosts. GG you can't really go SH against bio. Marineking, how did he win those games? Mostly by defending the silly all ins people are trying against him. "Marineking hasn't been around for long and I have none of his games to study, I'll just all-in him" is exactly how all his opponents have played. But this nerf to mine is a good one that will make zealot templar viable again. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
On December 04 2014 05:52 Entropy137 wrote: I like the change, as it's a move in the right direction. I still think nerfing Widow Mines health from 90 to 80 would be a very reasonably option to consider, if the idea is to bring HT style play back. This nerf would allow storms to kill a mine, and give the protoss player another ability to clear mines from range, which is one of the main benefits of the current collosus style. Yeh, I would like to see this one as well. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On December 04 2014 06:12 H0i wrote: ??? How can you call someone who made an all-kill in BW proleague a mediocre player? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8DD_OMjin0 ForGG won that game because he let his opponent think he was going mech, then went bio instead while the zerg had already invested heavily into swarm hosts. GG you can't really go SH against bio. Marineking, how did he win those games? Mostly by defending the silly all ins people are trying against him. "Marineking hasn't been around for long and I have none of his games to study, I'll just all-in him" is exactly how all his opponents have played. But this nerf to mine is a good one that will make zealot templar viable again. Brood War is a totally different game and is irrelevant. You could also say "how can you call MVP mediocre he won 5 GSLs!" but the reality is, now he is bad. I think it's also a bit telling that top Protosses are choosing to cheese MarineKing rather than play standard macro games. They're willing to take the risk rather than trying to play a macro game against a guy that switched to fucking LOL and came back for God's sake. MarineKing has been irrelevant for at least YEARS. | ||
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KMART561
United States24 Posts
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
when i made this exact same argument when protoss was winning everything (see pigbaby/classic/dear) you shot me down yet the exact same situation with terran and you want to argue that point.. faaaaaaiiilll face dino.. fail | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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