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Update on HotS Balance - December 3 - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
469 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 24 Next All
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
December 03 2014 20:31 GMT
#101
On December 04 2014 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:05 KingAlphard wrote:
Did anyone mention yet that widow mines won't oneshot interceptors with splash damage anymore ? (they also have 80 hp).
Pretty important imo, as widow mines are often used as a cheap counter to carriers when playing mech.


Yeah I bet the balance crew looked at the overwhelming number of Protoss carrier games and thought this would do the trick... that this would be the carrier buff needed to make the ol' PvT carrier build completely balanced


No, I assume that they didn't take this into account when they thought about this possible patch. Still , it's a nice addition. There's no carrier build involved in what I'm talking about - just reactive carriers upon scouting mech.

Mines vs Carriers are very risky to say the least;
If they latch into your own army you're doomed...
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
kinsky
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany368 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-03 20:32:40
December 03 2014 20:31 GMT
#102
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...

edit: sarcasm bot.
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
December 03 2014 20:33 GMT
#103
THANK GOD.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
December 03 2014 20:33 GMT
#104
On December 04 2014 05:31 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:05 KingAlphard wrote:
Did anyone mention yet that widow mines won't oneshot interceptors with splash damage anymore ? (they also have 80 hp).
Pretty important imo, as widow mines are often used as a cheap counter to carriers when playing mech.


Yeah I bet the balance crew looked at the overwhelming number of Protoss carrier games and thought this would do the trick... that this would be the carrier buff needed to make the ol' PvT carrier build completely balanced


No, I assume that they didn't take this into account when they thought about this possible patch. Still , it's a nice addition. There's no carrier build involved in what I'm talking about - just reactive carriers upon scouting mech.


a nice addition??? that a rarely seen playstyle gets nerfed even more?


Do you mean carriers ? Because carriers in PvT are seen more rarely than mech.
Mech is already balanced imo, the only problem is lazy terran players being afraid to try it out. Probably they could do a minor buff but mech won't become popular unless it becomes way stronger than bio, just because it's been the standard for the past 4 years.
AKAvg
Profile Joined April 2014
Brazil298 Posts
December 03 2014 20:34 GMT
#105
The current +40 shield damage is quite brutal.
It was reasonable when the WM splash was nerfed but it has since been restored. About time to have this one change.
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
December 03 2014 20:34 GMT
#106
Slight retouching of the Mine splash to shields plus map adjustments is good, I think. Realistically, you can probably balance TvZ with maps. Both sides have multiple openers and compositions possible, with several flavours of cheese/allin. Just need to ensure that maps aren't too choked so that all Mine shots are god-mode while simultaneously not so open that you can build only Zerglings and wipe the Terran from existence whenever they move out.
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-03 20:39:13
December 03 2014 20:38 GMT
#107
On December 04 2014 05:31 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:05 KingAlphard wrote:
Did anyone mention yet that widow mines won't oneshot interceptors with splash damage anymore ? (they also have 80 hp).
Pretty important imo, as widow mines are often used as a cheap counter to carriers when playing mech.


Yeah I bet the balance crew looked at the overwhelming number of Protoss carrier games and thought this would do the trick... that this would be the carrier buff needed to make the ol' PvT carrier build completely balanced


No, I assume that they didn't take this into account when they thought about this possible patch. Still , it's a nice addition. There's no carrier build involved in what I'm talking about - just reactive carriers upon scouting mech.

Mines vs Carriers are very risky to say the least;
If they latch into your own army you're doomed...


That shouldn't happen because you will run the widow mines below the carriers and burrow them (assuming you have the upgrade to burrow quickier), and ranged units (thors, vikings) will fire from far away.

Mostly widow mines become trash when the protoss player adds storms, so they only really work as a timing.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
December 03 2014 20:39 GMT
#108
they just can not stop fucking with the widow mine
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
December 03 2014 20:39 GMT
#109
On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...

edit: sarcasm bot.

So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good?
Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt
HEADD
Profile Joined June 2014
Czech Republic611 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-03 20:43:14
December 03 2014 20:41 GMT
#110
Blizzard logic: Zergs are underperforming...OK lets nerf Terran in TvP
Zergs need start crying more to get some love
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-03 20:43:57
December 03 2014 20:42 GMT
#111
So they decided to nerf Protoss after 1 year of almost all tournaments finals were PvPs. Now they say Terran it's overperforming when they win some tournaments. LOL! If you want to nerf something than nerf all speed buffs for oracles and medivacs. The game is impossible to balance because it's full of gimmicky units. Any little change is huge.
BTW: If you introduce some blink friendly maps then Terrans will get crushed again by low skilled protosses.
Game is definitely imbalanced. Terrans can actually reach finals these days...
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
December 03 2014 20:42 GMT
#112
I'm ok with this. Can always make bigger changes later if it's not enough, no need to crush Terran to the ground for 6 months :D
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
December 03 2014 20:43 GMT
#113
On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...

edit: sarcasm bot.

So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good?
Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt

is this a trick question
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Satan Battles
Profile Joined November 2014
4 Posts
December 03 2014 20:44 GMT
#114
On December 04 2014 05:09 Charoisaur wrote:
although i like this change i think DK is a little fast with his conclusion that terran is overperforming.
zerg just won blizzcon, we might have a pvp final at hot6ix cup and solar has won two tournaments as well.
Right after the widow mine buff terran was clearly overperforming for a period but now it seems that the other races have adapted.
Based on the last few tournaments i don't see any imbalance at all.


Yes, Life won Blizzcon, but he was the only one that made it to the RO8, and Life was also the last Zerg out of some 8 players at Dreamhack as well. If you just look at the earlier stages in tournaments, Zergs are getting eliminated left and right. Five out of the final 8 players at Dreamhachk were Terran, and it was similar for Blizzcon. You can't just look at Blizzcon and say that since one Zerg did well, that doesn't mean Zerg is at a good state at the moment. The general trend is that of a slightly weak Zerg.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
December 03 2014 20:44 GMT
#115
wow that's more than I hoped for.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
December 03 2014 20:45 GMT
#116
On December 04 2014 05:43 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...

edit: sarcasm bot.

So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good?
Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt

is this a trick question

Na, I'm just courious since he says that there are only 4good terrans that won tournaments, but I counted 7 different tournament winners. Hence, 3 of them have to be bad players by his statement.
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
December 03 2014 20:46 GMT
#117
On December 04 2014 05:44 Satan Battles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:09 Charoisaur wrote:
although i like this change i think DK is a little fast with his conclusion that terran is overperforming.
zerg just won blizzcon, we might have a pvp final at hot6ix cup and solar has won two tournaments as well.
Right after the widow mine buff terran was clearly overperforming for a period but now it seems that the other races have adapted.
Based on the last few tournaments i don't see any imbalance at all.


Yes, Life won Blizzcon, but he was the only one that made it to the RO8, and Life was also the last Zerg out of some 8 players at Dreamhack as well. If you just look at the earlier stages in tournaments, Zergs are getting eliminated left and right. Five out of the final 8 players at Dreamhachk were Terran, and it was similar for Blizzcon. You can't just look at Blizzcon and say that since one Zerg did well, that doesn't mean Zerg is at a good state at the moment. The general trend is that of a slightly weak Zerg.

Actually is the Protoss who eliminates Zergs these days in tournaments. ZvT is quite a balanced match-up.
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
midnight999
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States257 Posts
December 03 2014 20:46 GMT
#118
Was WM ever a problem in TvP in the first place?
Maniak_
Profile Joined October 2010
France305 Posts
December 03 2014 20:48 GMT
#119
On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...

edit: sarcasm bot.

So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good?
Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt

And since terran is nerfed again, when was the last time they were nerfed exactly?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ignoring the reverted WM nerf, it looks like the last nerf was moving the hellbat bonus damage vs light to the preigniter upgrade. Other than that, nothing since snipe and MULEs on gold, back in 1.4.3.

But sure, let's whine about the continuous nerfing of terran.
"They make psychiatrists get psychoanalyzed before they can get certified, but they don't make a surgeon get cut on. Does that seem right to you?" -- Jubal Early - Firefly
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
December 03 2014 20:52 GMT
#120
On December 04 2014 05:48 Maniak_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:
On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...

edit: sarcasm bot.

So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good?
Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt

And since terran is nerfed again, when was the last time they were nerfed exactly?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ignoring the reverted WM nerf, it looks like the last nerf was moving the hellbat bonus damage vs light to the preigniter upgrade. Other than that, nothing since snipe and MULEs on gold, back in 1.4.3.

But sure, let's whine about the continuous nerfing of terran.

If anything, nerfing continuously a race is a sign that the race is doing well. So Terran not being nerfed for a long time is only proof of its non-imbaness :D
What happens with Terran is usually this: Terran doesn't win shit for 6 months, Blizzard gives it a small buff, the same old good Terrans start to win massively, Blizzard nerfs it to the ground and repeat the cycle.
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