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On December 04 2014 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 04 2014 05:05 KingAlphard wrote:
Did anyone mention yet that widow mines won't oneshot interceptors with splash damage anymore ? (they also have 80 hp).
Pretty important imo, as widow mines are often used as a cheap counter to carriers when playing mech. Yeah I bet the balance crew looked at the overwhelming number of Protoss carrier games and thought this would do the trick... that this would be the carrier buff needed to make the ol' PvT carrier build completely balanced  No, I assume that they didn't take this into account when they thought about this possible patch. Still , it's a nice addition. There's no carrier build involved in what I'm talking about - just reactive carriers upon scouting mech.
Mines vs Carriers are very risky to say the least;
If they latch into your own army you're doomed...
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oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...
edit: sarcasm bot.
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On December 04 2014 05:31 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:On December 04 2014 05:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 04 2014 05:05 KingAlphard wrote:
Did anyone mention yet that widow mines won't oneshot interceptors with splash damage anymore ? (they also have 80 hp).
Pretty important imo, as widow mines are often used as a cheap counter to carriers when playing mech. Yeah I bet the balance crew looked at the overwhelming number of Protoss carrier games and thought this would do the trick... that this would be the carrier buff needed to make the ol' PvT carrier build completely balanced No, I assume that they didn't take this into account when they thought about this possible patch. Still , it's a nice addition. There's no carrier build involved in what I'm talking about - just reactive carriers upon scouting mech. a nice addition??? that a rarely seen playstyle gets nerfed even more?
Do you mean carriers ? Because carriers in PvT are seen more rarely than mech.
Mech is already balanced imo, the only problem is lazy terran players being afraid to try it out. Probably they could do a minor buff but mech won't become popular unless it becomes way stronger than bio, just because it's been the standard for the past 4 years.
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The current +40 shield damage is quite brutal.
It was reasonable when the WM splash was nerfed but it has since been restored. About time to have this one change.
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Slight retouching of the Mine splash to shields plus map adjustments is good, I think. Realistically, you can probably balance TvZ with maps. Both sides have multiple openers and compositions possible, with several flavours of cheese/allin. Just need to ensure that maps aren't too choked so that all Mine shots are god-mode while simultaneously not so open that you can build only Zerglings and wipe the Terran from existence whenever they move out.
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On December 04 2014 05:31 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:28 KingAlphard wrote:On December 04 2014 05:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 04 2014 05:05 KingAlphard wrote:
Did anyone mention yet that widow mines won't oneshot interceptors with splash damage anymore ? (they also have 80 hp).
Pretty important imo, as widow mines are often used as a cheap counter to carriers when playing mech. Yeah I bet the balance crew looked at the overwhelming number of Protoss carrier games and thought this would do the trick... that this would be the carrier buff needed to make the ol' PvT carrier build completely balanced No, I assume that they didn't take this into account when they thought about this possible patch. Still , it's a nice addition. There's no carrier build involved in what I'm talking about - just reactive carriers upon scouting mech. Mines vs Carriers are very risky to say the least; If they latch into your own army you're doomed...
That shouldn't happen because you will run the widow mines below the carriers and burrow them (assuming you have the upgrade to burrow quickier), and ranged units (thors, vikings) will fire from far away.
Mostly widow mines become trash when the protoss player adds storms, so they only really work as a timing.
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they just can not stop fucking with the widow mine
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On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...
edit: sarcasm bot.
So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good?
Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt
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Blizzard logic: Zergs are underperforming...OK lets nerf Terran in TvP 
Zergs need start crying more to get some love
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Vatican City State431 Posts
So they decided to nerf Protoss after 1 year of almost all tournaments finals were PvPs. Now they say Terran it's overperforming when they win some tournaments. LOL! If you want to nerf something than nerf all speed buffs for oracles and medivacs. The game is impossible to balance because it's full of gimmicky units. Any little change is huge.
BTW: If you introduce some blink friendly maps then Terrans will get crushed again by low skilled protosses.
Game is definitely imbalanced. Terrans can actually reach finals these days...
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I'm ok with this. Can always make bigger changes later if it's not enough, no need to crush Terran to the ground for 6 months :D
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On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...
edit: sarcasm bot. So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good? Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt
is this a trick question
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On December 04 2014 05:09 Charoisaur wrote:
although i like this change i think DK is a little fast with his conclusion that terran is overperforming.
zerg just won blizzcon, we might have a pvp final at hot6ix cup and solar has won two tournaments as well.
Right after the widow mine buff terran was clearly overperforming for a period but now it seems that the other races have adapted.
Based on the last few tournaments i don't see any imbalance at all.
Yes, Life won Blizzcon, but he was the only one that made it to the RO8, and Life was also the last Zerg out of some 8 players at Dreamhack as well. If you just look at the earlier stages in tournaments, Zergs are getting eliminated left and right. Five out of the final 8 players at Dreamhachk were Terran, and it was similar for Blizzcon. You can't just look at Blizzcon and say that since one Zerg did well, that doesn't mean Zerg is at a good state at the moment. The general trend is that of a slightly weak Zerg.
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wow that's more than I hoped for.
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On December 04 2014 05:43 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...
edit: sarcasm bot. So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good? Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt is this a trick question
Na, I'm just courious since he says that there are only 4good terrans that won tournaments, but I counted 7 different tournament winners. Hence, 3 of them have to be bad players by his statement.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
On December 04 2014 05:44 Satan Battles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:09 Charoisaur wrote:
although i like this change i think DK is a little fast with his conclusion that terran is overperforming.
zerg just won blizzcon, we might have a pvp final at hot6ix cup and solar has won two tournaments as well.
Right after the widow mine buff terran was clearly overperforming for a period but now it seems that the other races have adapted.
Based on the last few tournaments i don't see any imbalance at all. Yes, Life won Blizzcon, but he was the only one that made it to the RO8, and Life was also the last Zerg out of some 8 players at Dreamhack as well. If you just look at the earlier stages in tournaments, Zergs are getting eliminated left and right. Five out of the final 8 players at Dreamhachk were Terran, and it was similar for Blizzcon. You can't just look at Blizzcon and say that since one Zerg did well, that doesn't mean Zerg is at a good state at the moment. The general trend is that of a slightly weak Zerg.
Actually is the Protoss who eliminates Zergs these days in tournaments. ZvT is quite a balanced match-up.
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Was WM ever a problem in TvP in the first place?
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On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...
edit: sarcasm bot. So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good? Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt
And since terran is nerfed again, when was the last time they were nerfed exactly?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but ignoring the reverted WM nerf, it looks like the last nerf was moving the hellbat bonus damage vs light to the preigniter upgrade. Other than that, nothing since snipe and MULEs on gold, back in 1.4.3.
But sure, let's whine about the continuous nerfing of terran.
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On December 04 2014 05:48 Maniak_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 05:39 Big J wrote:On December 04 2014 05:31 kinsky wrote:
oh no! the 4 only good terrans that exist, started to win tournaments again. lets nerf terran again...
edit: sarcasm bot. So which one of these 7 Terran Tournament winners do you think isn't good? Flash, Forgg, Innovation, Taeja, Bomber, MMA, Polt And since terran is nerfed again, when was the last time they were nerfed exactly? Correct me if I'm wrong, but ignoring the reverted WM nerf, it looks like the last nerf was moving the hellbat bonus damage vs light to the preigniter upgrade. Other than that, nothing since snipe and MULEs on gold, back in 1.4.3. But sure, let's whine about the continuous nerfing of terran.
If anything, nerfing continuously a race is a sign that the race is doing well. So Terran not being nerfed for a long time is only proof of its non-imbaness :D
What happens with Terran is usually this: Terran doesn't win shit for 6 months, Blizzard gives it a small buff, the same old good Terrans start to win massively, Blizzard nerfs it to the ground and repeat the cycle.
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EPT
