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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
As far as I understand it they did two things: - game starts with 12workers, which seems to be mainly a anti-rush change to remove 11/11, 10pool etc. and allow players to start scouting the moment they enter a game without huge economical drawbacks - only 1000minerals per base But they haven't changed the saturation level or the mining efficiency of workers or any of that, right? | ||
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nocluewhatsoever
France10 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:26 TheDwf wrote: It's huge in some clutch defensive situations or in a fight near a warping Pylon, otherwise not so much Yeah, but the situations you mentioned are the only ones where warpins are of crucial importance for P. No one would hold 3 bases against T for instance with overcharge not hitting air + those big nerfs to warpin. Even medivac boost removal as you suggested wouldn't compensate it totally, buffs -maybe not huge, maybe so- to stalkers would be needed. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:33 nocluewhatsoever wrote: <3 Really only sad that there is no teasing/hints of maps and editor related stuff If they implement half of the "tease" .. wow .. that ll be the most change ever for a blizz game The campaign preview makes it look like there'll be some new tilesets and doodads. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:30 Everlong wrote: Also, the new Cyclon, removal of Hardened shield passive and Tempest being mostly anti-ground makes mech viable imo. It's actually really close to being viable currently (it's viable at GM level with varied opening styles, gameplans and lategame compositions) so they better watch out and not make it OP. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:30 Big J wrote: Can someone break down the economy revamp for me? As far as I understand it they did two things: - game starts with 12workers, which seems to be mainly a anti-rush change to remove 11/11, 10pool etc. and allow players to start scouting the moment they enter a game without huge economical drawbacks - only 1000minerals per base But they haven't changed the saturation level or the mining efficiency of workers or any of that, right? They have. Before max was 24 workers per base, now it is 16. So, you will saturate your base a lot faster but you will also need to expand aggressively, otherwise you will be starving for minerals really fast. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:35 Ramiz1989 wrote: They have. Before max was 24 workers per base, now it is 16. In the Exhibition match #1 it is still 24. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:35 Ramiz1989 wrote: They have. Before max was 24 workers per base, now it is 16. I don't see how 16 will be the max since 3 does not divide 16. I still need some enlightenments on that point. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:34 [PkF] Wire wrote: It's actually really close to being viable currently (it's viable at GM level with varied opening styles, gameplans and lategame compositions) so they better watch out and not make it OP. Mech isn't even close to viable due to Browder's bad extreme hard counter design. Something they're finally fixing. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
Missed them -was so late, didn't even see the end of INno-TaeJa. How were the exhibition matches ? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
Ask State. (edit : anyway it's not the proper place to discuss HotS balance) | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Of everything introduced/changed in LotV, the warpgate change is the second biggest one, right after the economy revamp. Defensive warpins basically don't exist anymore unless you see things coming a mile away. No matter where you warp in, it gives your opponent 3 extra seconds to react to it and also 200% extra damage to kill units as they warp in. Aside from the very obvious fact that it slows down protoss reinforcements by 3 seconds each warpin round. It's a gigantic change. I did edit my post. It do change stuff ,yes. Protoss needs more decision in some regards to where to warpin. Especially without support. But other than that its pretty much the same. It will still have the same macropower. This is unchanged. In bigger fights where protoss do their timing attack with heavy wg play. The warpin units will be protected and its pretty much the "same" as before except the 3sec longer duration. So i dont think this will let blizzard buff gateway units. However, if ravager comes at lair. This probably means gateway units needs a buff. Or if terrans new units are very strong and accessable early on. Sure, it might need a change. Other than that, i dont see gateway units getting changed. | ||
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Nightshake
France412 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:23 SatedSC2 wrote: I don't care if other people like it. If it ends up being a better game for everyone else then that's great for everyone else and it's great for Blizzard and I'll be happy for y'all, but I will still be left with a large eSports-sized hole in my life as a result =/ That's why I am complaining. I don't want to stop playing and watching SC2, but I will have to if these changes go through because they're bewilderingly awful. Welcome to 2010. Replace SC2 with BW and LotV with SC2 and you NOW get what a lot of people felt back then. Now imagine someone would tell you STFU or GTFO and stop talking about your stupid old game, get in touch with times, embrace modern games and shut up because this WILL bring in a lot of players and a never before giant scene for SC and esports, etc, etc ,etc. Im sorry I used you as an example but this could apply to all sc2 fans that now feel disgusted from the changes introduced and a seemingly new game being shoved to them. I actually don't thinks changes will be that dramatic but I respect your opinion and feel your sadness and completely understand. I was just trying to put things in perspective of how it feels to be "on the other side". | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:28 Daralii wrote: Nyduses are still made of paper. I don't see how they're OP at all. It doesn't matter how weak Nyduses are. If you get Nydused mid/late game you are done. You will not kill it in time no matter what. This is basically a guaranteed way for Zerg to get units into Protoss/Terran main base. You can also place like 2-3 Nyduses really to make sure. It's broken, believe me, it won't be in the final game. The only possibility to counter the new Nydus is to leave absolutely no space in your base for Nydus to be placed, which is insane and just straight up silly. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:36 [PkF] Wire wrote: Missed them -was so late, didn't even see the end of INno-TaeJa. How were the exhibition matches ? There was one match, played in Archon mode and it was bad. I mean we see new stuff and players were obviously trying to show that, but it was a bad showcase of new stuff and a lot of stuff looks quite imbalanced of course. Nothing strange for a first showing of LotV, we will have to wait for the Beta. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
On November 08 2014 21:37 DarkLordOlli wrote: They need to be careful about not overnerfing the immortal vs mech. You walk a fine line there, if they're too weak then mech can really spiral and become extremely strong very fast Exactly. People don't seem to realize how much, though maybe awkward design wise, a really strong immortal vs mech is needed. Then again, gateway buffs are maybe on the way, so we shouldn't theorycraft about it too much I guess. | ||
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