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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 10 2014 22:43 Westy wrote: Has there been anymore said about the beta? Did Redeye say it was coming in January? They said during the multiplayer panel that it'd be in the first half of 2015. We dunno if what Redeye said was accurate or not, so don't get too excited. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On November 10 2014 22:49 Daralii wrote: They said during the multiplayer panel that it'd be in the first half of 2015. We dunno if what Redeye said was accurate or not, so don't get too excited. I doubt it will be that son, my bet is in march/april | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5457 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On November 10 2014 22:40 RaFox17 wrote: Having an innate advantage=not getting killed the moment toss reaches 200/200. When Mech reaches 200/200, you lose right? What are you supposed to do? Not let them get 200/200. The problem with HotS is that too many games reach 200/200. And, it becomes more about which race has the better max composition than who is the better player. With new economic changes that are closer to BW, where it was really hard to reach max, then it's not the same thing. Also, if it's harder for one race to reach max than it is the other race, then it becomes debatable whether you should have a good chance at winning in max vs max. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On November 10 2014 22:44 Big J wrote: They reset the game a lot. I currently don't think the SH is needed for LotV. Tempest cant hit air so BLs are viable. Colossi are nerfed. I'm not on playa's side given how poorly he presented his arguments but I agree with his original point: they didnt make the new units imba just so that people use them. Look at the ravager or the disruptor, those units couldnt hit anything. 5lurkers couldnt kill a stalker. The Herc disnt look broken and was deflected shortly after doing some damage. The swarm host is a crap design and should go. Now is the time. Not in HotS where he is necessary and not half way into LotV when it might have been balances to be necessary. Right now! I do agree that they are simply doing a bad job balancing the new units. They are idiotic. I don´t mind if they remove the HS from Lotv, my opinion is that without SH zerg could not compete in HOTS. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
I like Huk's thoughts a lot  . | ||
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zelderan
United States163 Posts
So pumped for this game. Cannot wait to get my hands on the beta. Hooray! | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
We've been playing collosus deathballs since WOL. Since hots came out, we sometimes include tempests, but thats about it, Why can't protoss get new units that actually change the way they play? Like a new gateway unit or something. This new disruptor will probably occasionally get played, or get included in said deathball. But in the end, it'll still be the same stalker collosus deathball that we'll have to play :S | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On November 10 2014 20:16 Daralii wrote: The question is how you can balance the cyclone without taking away its niche as a cheap factory AA unit/deathball disassembler, but also without making it step on the hellion's toes. Million ways easy to be made: #1 - reduce damage, but keep it high against Armored Air (keep the Priority targets role of things) #2 - keep it's high damage, high movement, but lower the HP and lower the acceleration for quite a bit so there would be a period of it stopping and being vulnerable to the other units that are following it #3 - reduce the latching range and the max range a bit (say latch 4.5 range and max 9 instead of 8 or 9 or whatever high number there was to it).. Keep it's high max range after the upgrade, but reduce it's maximum firing range before the research kicks in However - think that them having 200 hp is not fitting, that's far too high for any non-massive unit that has a high mobility I think | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On November 10 2014 23:10 VArsovskiSC wrote: Million ways easy to be made: #1 - reduce damage, but keep it high against Armored Air (keep the Priority targets role of things) #2 - keep it's high damage, high movement, but lower the HP and lower the acceleration for quite a bit so there would be a period of it stopping and being vulnerable to the other units that are following it #3 - reduce the latching range and the max range a bit (say latch 4.5 range and max 9 instead of 8 or 9 or whatever high number there was to it).. Keep it's high max range after the upgrade, but reduce it's maximum firing range before the research kicks in However - think that them having 200 hp is not fitting, that's far too high for any non-massive unit that has a high mobility I think It should be good vs armored have good accelerationg rate but low HP and be a light unit, that way it Works good in tandem with the hellions but its and awfull unit when massed in deathballs, also the range, thats probably the most stupid thing, but I think the time it last is more important, if you have to constatly get close to re-lock on the target it makes it more vulnerable and it becomes more microable and skill based | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 10 2014 23:21 Lexender wrote: It should be good vs armored have good accelerationg rate but low HP and be a light unit, that way it Works good in tandem with the hellions but its and awfull unit when massed in deathballs, also the range, thats probably the most stupid thing, but I think the time it last is more important, if you have to constatly get close to re-lock on the target it makes it more vulnerable and it becomes more microable and skill based The official site makes it seem like it already lost 1 range and the upgrade. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 10 2014 22:44 Big J wrote: They reset the game a lot. I currently don't think the SH is needed for LotV. Tempest cant hit air so BLs are viable. Colossi are nerfed. I'm not on playa's side given how poorly he presented his arguments but I agree with his original point: they didnt make the new units imba just so that people use them. Look at the ravager or the disruptor, those units couldnt hit anything. 5lurkers couldnt kill a stalker. The Herc disnt look broken and was deflected shortly after doing some damage. The swarm host is a crap design and should go. Now is the time. Not in HotS where he is necessary and not half way into LotV when it might have been balances to be necessary. Right now! Tempest cant hit air so BLs are viable Tempest have an ability which can hit air, it does 500 (?) dmg over time Look at the ravager or the disruptor, those units couldnt hit anything The ravager did just fine when used in situations where he should be usefull (against deathballs/ immobile units). Yes he isn't that useful against units which are fast, but that is no real surprise. The disruptor wasn't really used all that much, so it is pretty weird to even make a comment about it tbh. I actually like that you need some practice with a unit first, seems to be the case here. 5lurkers couldnt kill a stalker Oh pls. Maybe you could argue that the spines move a bit too slow, but that won't be a huge problem against bigger armies, in that one engagement against a toss ball they looked just fine. The swarm host is a crap design and should go The SH got redesigned, i really think we should wait a bit to make any comments... | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On November 10 2014 23:06 Musicus wrote: So iNcontrol and Desrow/Huk released videos with their impressions on LotV! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy8fzYo_yP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YarB8f713_A&feature=youtu.be I like Huk's thoughts a lot . Huk took the words from my mouth ^^ Lets hope protoss gets some good units early-mid game, the late game is good already XD Something that can bump heads with other units like the dragoon (altough they are almost a mixture of immortals and stakers). Im also super excited for Ravager play, i bet its a good unit, but in specific situations Hope they benefit from tunneling claws too (maybe even cast fireballs from underground?!). And if they are tanky enough we might see burrow micro. Roaches are usually in big numbers and they are kinda cheap, so its usually not worth it to burrow them individually, but if the Ravager have the roach regen then its totally worth it! Since they cost a muta O_Oedit: @ejozl, free stuff for protoss, unfair *sarcasm  | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3477 Posts
More things to screw with YO RAMPS! :D | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On November 10 2014 22:04 playa wrote: I'm so tired of hearing that mantra about how they make everything OP to start with, yet that never seems to apply to Toss units. 300 gas for the disruptor, while it was struggling to kill a freaking drone during the show matches. Do you know how awesome a unit would have to be for me to be encouraged to make it, despite costing 300 gas (I refuse to even make archons out of templars)? It would have to be the new swarm host. And somehow I doubt that got a price increase. The concept of the swarm host sucks. The concept is imbalanced. The unit is even more imbalanced now. After the horrible games they have caused everyone, they not only owe everyone an apology, they owe it to us/me to remove it asap. And they owe it to themselves to go into rehab for whatever mind altering drugs they must have been doing way too much. There is no way someone could come up with a worse unit than the swarm host. Mech being unbeatable shouldn't become a Toss problem. This isn't Beta yet. And yes Protoss had broken stuff pre-beta. The Mothership, Tempest, Sentries, Void Rays, Photon Overcharge... these had to have serious nerfs compared to their introduction. | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On November 10 2014 23:06 Musicus wrote: So iNcontrol and Desrow/Huk released videos with their impressions on LotV! 8< snibeti snab 8< I like Huk's thoughts a lot . interesting thoughts | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 10 2014 23:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: Tempest have an ability which can hit air, it does 500 (?) dmg over time 500dmg over 50seconds from like 9range (according to the PvZ showmatch) is a very strong damage/range nerf, but most importantly (I believe) it doesn't stack. So you cannot queue 3Tempests to one-shot BL after BL. The ravager did just fine when used in situations where he should be usefull (against deathballs/ immobile units). Yes he isn't that useful against units which are fast, but that is no real surprise. Can't remember a situation in which it was ravagers vs deathball, could you please point to which situation you point? The disruptor wasn't really used all that much, so it is pretty weird to even make a comment about it tbh. I actually like that you need some practice with a unit first, seems to be the case here. Oh pls. Maybe you could argue that the spines move a bit too slow, but that won't be a huge problem against bigger armies, in that one engagement against a toss ball they looked just fine. Did they look like they are too powerful? Because that was what I was arguing against. Unless you believe those units looked very strong than my point still stands. The SH got redesigned, i really think we should wait a bit to make any comments... The swarm hosts design is still to release units from far away and then kill stuff for free with it. There is no risk involved, it's not like a mutalisk or medivac that actually can be killed when they try to harass. The SHs balancing is still going to be about engaging it either with air or when the spawn is on cooldown and dodging the spawns anytime you don't have overwhelming numbers, but not about interacting. That's why I still call it a crap design. I've always been a guy that believed that free units can be balanced and even fun, but I think blizzard is pretty bad at implementing them in Starcraft (I think they did a good job in Warcraft) and I would rather want them to stop trying. In general I really think we should give feedback now and not wait for a beta. Why? Because blizzard can only fix so much in a 4-5months. And with the HotS beta they have shown that many of their concepts were half-baked and they actually rolled in more changes from alpha to beta than they implemented in beta to release. (examples for this would be corruptor/nydus changes, their promise to change the Overseer, Warhound removal, BC nerfed back, Terran upgrade changes taken back). Like, any change they make in the beta will have a test period of like 1-2months before it will get evalutated. The beta will last a few months. That means there is not a lot of room for changes once the stuff is in the beta. And in particular, there will be thinks simply not working out at all and those will have priority over balanced-but-uninspired stuff. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3477 Posts
So what I mean is that yes the current turtle swarm hosts suck, but these new ones might not. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On November 10 2014 23:09 Garfailed wrote: Just saw the new units... Why do protoss's only get gimmicky units every expansion? We've been playing collosus deathballs since WOL. Since hots came out, we sometimes include tempests, but thats about it, Why can't protoss get new units that actually change the way they play? Like a new gateway unit or something. This new disruptor will probably occasionally get played, or get included in said deathball. But in the end, it'll still be the same stalker collosus deathball that we'll have to play :S yea... The disruptor is actually the answer for protosses who don't want to play deathball style. It's useful in drop harass and in small armies. It does 150 damage currently, enough for just 1 to devastate a clump of marines or zerglings and leaves roaches/marauders in the red. As any protoss knows 1 colossus is pretty useless, you need at least 3-4 before your army can do anything useful aside from turtle under a nexus cannon. It's going to give protoss an actual, viable early game and it's going to make this game so much more fun to play. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Also disrupter, while I kinda like the design for some reason, I think it might be hard to balance just like it happened to the widow mine. (IIRC first it got nerfed for looking OP, then rebuffed to better stats than at the start) | ||
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