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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
On September 07 2014 00:17 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 00:11 Silvana wrote:Yeah I asked like 30 pages ago why they need to reset GSL but I'm not convinced. I think someone said something along the lines of "reset is needed to give the returning players a shot on WCS KR... it's more fair". But that makes no sense, if you start from Code B you can end up winning Code S championship in the same season if you are good enough. I still don't see the need for a reset  If I were to take a wild guess, I'd say that it is a way of compensating the Korean players that will make the Ro8s of EU/AM this season that can't stay in the region for next year. Since they won't be seeded into Code S, Blizzard wipes the slate clean and evens the playing field. Not fair to the GSL players, but then again I don't really think it's fair to boot the Korean players in Europe or America either.
Yes but I think that's the worst thing they can do for them! Consider Pigbaby returning to Korea. In the current setting I think he would have good chances to advance to Code A and even maybe reach Code S, but now with this changes his chances are lower because he has to fight with the big dogs right from Code B.
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On September 07 2014 00:21 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 00:17 Zealously wrote:On September 07 2014 00:11 Silvana wrote:Yeah I asked like 30 pages ago why they need to reset GSL but I'm not convinced. I think someone said something along the lines of "reset is needed to give the returning players a shot on WCS KR... it's more fair". But that makes no sense, if you start from Code B you can end up winning Code S championship in the same season if you are good enough. I still don't see the need for a reset If I were to take a wild guess, I'd say that it is a way of compensating the Korean players that will make the Ro8s of EU/AM this season that can't stay in the region for next year. Since they won't be seeded into Code S, Blizzard wipes the slate clean and evens the playing field. Not fair to the GSL players, but then again I don't really think it's fair to boot the Korean players in Europe or America either. It's pretty much globally unfair to Koreans generally speaking. These changes are truly foreigner welfare and it's not even funny. See my huge rant last page. E: No disrespect to foreigners who are really working hard to play on par with Koreans. Mad respect for them actually.
I've read this whole thread and I think I 100% agree with all your posts. I'm really sad with this changes too. Let's join the Sad Koreans Fan Club.
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On September 07 2014 00:24 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2014 00:17 Zealously wrote:On September 07 2014 00:11 Silvana wrote:Yeah I asked like 30 pages ago why they need to reset GSL but I'm not convinced. I think someone said something along the lines of "reset is needed to give the returning players a shot on WCS KR... it's more fair". But that makes no sense, if you start from Code B you can end up winning Code S championship in the same season if you are good enough. I still don't see the need for a reset If I were to take a wild guess, I'd say that it is a way of compensating the Korean players that will make the Ro8s of EU/AM this season that can't stay in the region for next year. Since they won't be seeded into Code S, Blizzard wipes the slate clean and evens the playing field. Not fair to the GSL players, but then again I don't really think it's fair to boot the Korean players in Europe or America either. Yes but I think that's the worst thing they can do for them! Consider Pigbaby returning to Korea. In the current setting I think he would have good chances to advance to Code A and even maybe reach Code S, but now with this changes his chances are lower because he has to fight with the big dogs right from Code B.
Korea's scene was already restricted due to the sheer amount of high level players. WCS AM / EU helped relieve some of that pressure and accommodated some of those high level players. This was beneficial to all three scenes.
Now Blizzard is changing that. Arbitrarily and without justification either. Has Blizzard even said why they're going through with these changes?
E: Sad Korean fan club, I laughed heheh
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I'm fairly sure they aren't going to reset gsl. The reset makes sense in the context of WCS AM and EU where a bunch of people are expected to be leaving and "forfeit" their spots. That won't happen in GSL, so it wouldn't make a ton of sense to reset gsl like that
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United States23455 Posts
On September 06 2014 20:07 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 15:10 Darkhorse wrote:On September 06 2014 15:06 dyDrawer wrote:
WCS Reset: I don't think resetting GSL is a good idea. Blizzard should learn its lesson: DON'T TAMPER WITH GSL. It's not broken, don't fix it.
Full region lock: it's a little more extreme than I had thought but I think it's a fair way of going about things.
Of course this might spell disaster for any Korean that's not in KeSPA, but frankly I think I'd rather like to see players who can consistently do well in GSL at Blizzcon. players who can consistently do well in GSL and region lock protected foreigner punching bags at blizzcon If you change the first part to: B-level Koreans who get invited to everything, and rack up obscene amounts of points beating other B-level Koreans and foreigners, you'd have it about right. I have no idea where this delusion that the current WCS system is some kind of pristine meritocracy comes from.
When did I say the current format is great? I have criticized the system in the past. JD and Jjakji still in and Hyun, MC, StarDust as three of the top four? Clearly there is an issue. I was just pointing out that although there will be more of the GSL Koreans at Blizzcon provided they up the wcs points/money from there, the tradeoff is that there will be more foreigners who will get crushed considering they will get points from their region locked WCS
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I understand that, with these changes, it seems reasonable to have everyone requalify. Everyone, but surely not the GSL top 8? It's insanely difficult to reach that stage :-S
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I think this is an excellent idea. Good job blizz
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I don't understand some of the logic here. We are yelling at foreigners to play better because they can't be Koreans that left Korea, but that same logic isn't applied to those Koreans when they go back to Korea. Sorry, can't have it both ways.
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On September 07 2014 00:57 shockaslim wrote:
I don't understand some of the logic here. We are yelling at foreigners to play better because they can't be Koreans that left Korea, but that same logic isn't applied to those Koreans when they go back to Korea. Sorry, can't have it both ways.
um... because those koreans are better than the foreigners and will have fewer opportunities than inferior players...
im not one of the people whining about the change but the logic on their side is clear and makes sense if you agree with their viewpoint on what is fair
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When I read these pages, it sounds like WCS is all we (and the players) have and with the changes everything will get crushed. The changes are huge and I can understand, both sides. (pro and contra region lock). But since there are also IEM, Red Bull Events, Dreamhack and hopefully more MLG etc. I think its enough stuff for the korean scene (and China, Taiwan whatever) to compete. Even if in WCS the most money is involved(?).
I am not sure what I should think about the changes but I would say "let's see and wait" before worry too much.
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On September 07 2014 01:12 Hanna wrote:
When I read these pages, it sounds like WCS is all we (and the players) have and with the changes everything will get crushed. The changes are huge and I can understand, both sides. (pro and contra region lock). But since there are also IEM, Red Bull Events, Dreamhack and hopefully more MLG etc. I think its enough stuff for the korean scene (and China, Taiwan whatever) to compete. Even if in WCS the most money is involved(?).
I am not sure what I should think about the changes but I would say "let's see and wait" before worry too much.
Mmm nope, those events don't add new opportunities to help grow the Korean scene (the one that's being screwed), because they're located in EU or NA. They just benefit the EU or NA locals (who are being also benefited with this new system) and the Koreigners who can afford to fly around the world (also being benefited by the new system).
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On September 07 2014 01:12 Hanna wrote:
When I read these pages, it sounds like WCS is all we (and the players) have and with the changes everything will get crushed. The changes are huge and I can understand, both sides. (pro and contra region lock). But since there are also IEM, Red Bull Events, Dreamhack and hopefully more MLG etc. I think its enough stuff for the korean scene (and China, Taiwan whatever) to compete. Even if in WCS the most money is involved(?).
I am not sure what I should think about the changes but I would say "let's see and wait" before worry too much.
"China, Taiwan whatever" will still be able to attend WCS AM (without having to be a legal resident of the Americas) because they don't have their own region.
It's about the qualifiers but I think it's save to assume that nothing will change for them.
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On September 07 2014 00:31 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 20:07 Squat wrote:On September 06 2014 15:10 Darkhorse wrote:On September 06 2014 15:06 dyDrawer wrote:
WCS Reset: I don't think resetting GSL is a good idea. Blizzard should learn its lesson: DON'T TAMPER WITH GSL. It's not broken, don't fix it.
Full region lock: it's a little more extreme than I had thought but I think it's a fair way of going about things.
Of course this might spell disaster for any Korean that's not in KeSPA, but frankly I think I'd rather like to see players who can consistently do well in GSL at Blizzcon. players who can consistently do well in GSL and region lock protected foreigner punching bags at blizzcon If you change the first part to: B-level Koreans who get invited to everything, and rack up obscene amounts of points beating other B-level Koreans and foreigners, you'd have it about right. I have no idea where this delusion that the current WCS system is some kind of pristine meritocracy comes from. When did I say the current format is great? I have criticized the system in the past. JD and Jjakji still in and Hyun, MC, StarDust as three of the top four? Clearly there is an issue. I was just pointing out that although there will be more of the GSL Koreans at Blizzcon provided they up the wcs points/money from there, the tradeoff is that there will be more foreigners who will get crushed considering they will get points from their region locked WCS
Depends on how the points distribution turns out. I'd be fine with a 14/1/1 setup at WCS global finals, in favour of the Korean scene.
And really, how much difference is there between seeing people like Snute/Scar/Vortix/Bunny/Major vs the top Koreans, compared to MC/Hyun/Jjakji/JD/Stardust? Is there any meaningful degree of separation between the supposed level of mismatch when pairing either of those line-ups against the top Koreans? I see all these people as having more or less the same chance, i.e. not very big.
I think you greatly exaggerate how big the influx of undeserving foreigners into the WCS finals will be. At most we'll get a few of the top ones, and a few of the internationalized Koreans.
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What is going to happen is that the Korean scene is going to be oversaturated with players. The prizepool of GSL is not large enough to support the careers to 200+ progamers. With region locks, we will see much more retirements, switching to LoL, etc.. Worst comes to worst, this could collapse the entire scene.
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somewhere in the thread I got remembered who is actually planning this alongside Blizzard, which reassured me that they won't mess the progress 2014 made up. Unless that one evil group somehow got more to say then they deserve :p .
It is like the TL Power Ranks, I don't agree wit them, but I know the people working on them have the highest chance to be correct in the end.
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On September 07 2014 01:44 Loccstana wrote:
What is going to happen is that the Korean scene is going to be oversaturated with players. The prizepool of GSL is not large enough to support the careers to 200+ progamers. With region locks, we will see much more retirements, switching to LoL, etc.. Worst comes to worst, this could collapse the entire scene.
Not going to happen. Pro league isn't going anyplace. People will play in WCS. There will be SC2 to watch and enjoy, despite what the doom's day prophets are saying.
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On September 07 2014 01:44 Loccstana wrote:
What is going to happen is that the Korean scene is going to be oversaturated with players. The prizepool of GSL is not large enough to support the careers to 200+ progamers. With region locks, we will see much more retirements, switching to LoL, etc.. Worst comes to worst, this could collapse the entire scene.
I highly doubt that the Korean scene is just going to collapse. The region lock is only for WCS, and I don't think there is anything that stops anyone else from broadcasting SC2 in Korea as far as I know. Also, don't forget that there are still going to be all of the international tournaments for people to play in.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Yeah and maybe they will start giving WCS to proleague players.
There is a LOT that we don't know and people are starting to jump into conclusions too quiclky
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I'm not a big fan of cross-server playing, so hopefully this results in full blown Korean invasion. It's so boring to see the same koreigners in every f'n tournament. More offline WCS and actual TEAMS!
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On September 07 2014 01:12 Hanna wrote:
When I read these pages, it sounds like WCS is all we (and the players) have and with the changes everything will get crushed. The changes are huge and I can understand, both sides. (pro and contra region lock). But since there are also IEM, Red Bull Events, Dreamhack and hopefully more MLG etc. I think its enough stuff for the korean scene (and China, Taiwan whatever) to compete. Even if in WCS the most money is involved(?).
I am not sure what I should think about the changes but I would say "let's see and wait" before worry too much.
The problem with IEMs, Red Bulls, Dreamhacks etc. is that they are all happening in either Europe or NA. In Korea there is only GSL and now Kespa Cup, the popular Proleague doesn't give WCS points, so no matter how good one or the other player is, there's just not enough space for everyone. And if you look at the current WCS standings, you can see that top Koreans of GSL aren't in the first ranks because they don't travel too much. In many cases it's because they concentrate on Korean tournaments (like Proleague) and flying to events could disturb their practice, and in many other teams probably just don't have the money to send their players to tournaments on different continents. That means that many players may just disappear, that's why so many people are worried.
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EPT
