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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release.
I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder.
Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement.
Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going.
What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on.
If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene.
This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown.
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Full region lock 
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This is going to hurt the scene so much, mark my words.
It's just diluting WCS EU and AM and it's a shame because those regions have been so fun this year.
Blizzard can keep the Koreans out of AM and EU all they want, all it means is that Blizzcon at the end of the year will be a complete romp by whatever Koreans manage to make it there. It means Polt and Violet get almost a guaranteed championship every season as long as they are the only ones with athlete's visas in the US.
They're just hurting their own tournaments. I don't expect this system to last past 2015, but by the time they reverse it how much damage will actually be done?
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On September 05 2014 16:33 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release. I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder. Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement. Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going. What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on. If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene. This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown.
If I recall, players are required to play a certain amount (200?) of ladder games in their region every season in order to be allowed to enter the qualifiers for a tournament.
Maybe a BoX against Pigbaby doesn't significantly increase the skill level of the NA scene, but 200 ladder games against him might.
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It won't effect WCS EU at all as most Koreans actually live in EU:
ForGG (France)
Patience (Germany)
Golden (Germany)
jjakji (Switzerland)
Sacrsi (Switzerland)
StarDust (Switzerland)
First (Germany)
YoDa (Germany)
MC (Germany)
So only San, Mvp and possibly MMA (although Team Acer does have a team house in Germany for him).
WCS America will be a completely different landscape though and will be a lot less competitive and will probably suffer from a dip in viewership as well. Hopefully they'll also increase slots for AU/CN/TW to get talent from there too.
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On September 05 2014 16:35 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:33 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release. I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder. Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement. Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going. What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on. If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene. This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown. If I recall, players are required to play a certain amount (200?) of ladder games in their region every season in order to be allowed to enter the qualifiers for a tournament. Maybe a BoX against Pigbaby doesn't significantly increase the skill level of the NA scene, but 200 ladder games against him might.
Except those 200 games are split amongst everyone else on the ladder, including fellow Koreans. The amount of games any one non-Korean would get isn't that huge (200 games, you could play 1 game with each other GM). Players will play 30+ games a day when they're going hard. Koreans only contributing the minimal amount in a non-local region is peanuts compared to the opportunities presented by real, better-financed infrastructure.
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On September 05 2014 16:35 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:33 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release. I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder. Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement. Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going. What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on. If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene. This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown. If I recall, players are required to play a certain amount (200?) of ladder games in their region every season in order to be allowed to enter the qualifiers for a tournament. Maybe a BoX against Pigbaby doesn't significantly increase the skill level of the NA scene, but 200 ladder games against him might.
Or instead of having a Pigbaby that has played 200 games on AM (maybe taken seriously) we could have another "Polt" that has played thousands.
Which would be better for the AM scene?
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Good step to take if WCS would mean just WCS and would invite to Blizzcon - top4 US, top4 EU and top8 KR WCS.
But that will not happen because WCS points attract better players to all the Tier tournaments, which means more attractive tournaments. This is not so simple.
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On September 05 2014 16:26 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:23 Lunareste wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. Imagine how much more ridiculously awful it will be when NA and EU "pros," devoid of the increased skill gained from regularly playing against Koreans players, make it to Blizzcon off the backs of easy WCS titles and get stomped 3-0 by the actually good players. i'd enjoy it talking to stuchiu so much has made me start loving favorites being crushed and tears being shed
lichter confirmed: talking to stuchiu makes you a bad person
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On September 05 2014 16:35 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:33 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release. I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder. Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement. Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going. What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on. If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene. This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown. If I recall, players are required to play a certain amount (200?) of ladder games in their region every season in order to be allowed to enter the qualifiers for a tournament. Maybe a BoX against Pigbaby doesn't significantly increase the skill level of the NA scene, but 200 ladder games against him might.
Not really, most pros in teams can play the Korean server, the point is they choose not to. There is no excuse for NA teams. EG provided their Starcraft 2 team with a house in Nor cal (which gets freaking good ping to Korea like 20ms perfect ping) yet EG members still refused to play on the Korean server, I think suppy was the only one willing to play on it. That is their choice for not wanting to improve.
Root since being in Nor cal has been playing on Korea, at least Catz has, I wish their other players would follow suit. Point is Players on Pro teams have access to Korean server with decent ping, they choose not to play on it, that is their own darn fault for not wanting to improve, they don't need Koreans to play on NA or EU to improve.
EU tho has worse ping to Korea, so it was nice seeing some Korean influence on the EU server to improve some players.
NA has no excuse tho, most of NA that can get decent internet, can have flawless ping to South Korea, I'm a poor college student in So cal and have a bad internet connect, I can still get like perfect ping to South Korean server on starcraft 2.
Full Region lock sucks IMO this is hurts Korea so much. NA players being lazy (yes lazy EG members could play on Korea fine but choose not to) This is a joke. Wake up Blizzard you are hurting starcraft 2 because of the poor whiners and cry babies on NA.
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On September 05 2014 16:40 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:35 Lunareste wrote:On September 05 2014 16:33 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release. I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder. Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement. Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going. What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on. If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene. This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown. If I recall, players are required to play a certain amount (200?) of ladder games in their region every season in order to be allowed to enter the qualifiers for a tournament. Maybe a BoX against Pigbaby doesn't significantly increase the skill level of the NA scene, but 200 ladder games against him might. Except those 200 games are split amongst everyone else on the ladder, including fellow Koreans. The amount of games any one non-Korean would get isn't that huge (200 games, you could play 1 game with each other GM). Players will play 30+ games a day when they're going hard. Koreans only contributing the minimal amount in a non-local region is peanuts compared to the opportunities presented by real, better-financed infrastructure.
I'm not saying it isn't.
I am dispelling the rhetoric that Pigbaby only played a couple of BoX's to win his championship.
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On September 05 2014 09:58 Fionn wrote:
The year is 2018.
Polt is a 52-time WCS America champion.
will be hard with only 3 WCS seasons per year  . But yeah, I see where this comes from. BUT this will help out the NA region the same way, it helped EU, when those korean players like ForGG, Stardust, Jjakji and so on came over to live here and play on the server.
And instead of LoL, where the different region barely meet over the course of a year, you still have tons of international tournaments like IEM, Dreamhack in SC2, where you still got the high level competition between all 3 regions.
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More region locking = less Koreans = less fun.
This will mean more Koreans will stay in the already stacked national scene, leading to more retirements as it can't support them all. For me, this is a very bad change.
No opinion on the other changes.
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On September 05 2014 16:44 LingBlingBling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 16:35 Lunareste wrote:On September 05 2014 16:33 Shuffleblade wrote:On September 05 2014 16:04 iamcaustic wrote:On September 05 2014 15:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 15:51 Shuffleblade wrote:
I read lots of skepticism here, I have to concede that its very unsure how this will turn out.
I will say however that I think a certain degree of lock is good for actually having a fair share of americans in americas WCS. If there is any time when its a good move I think it is now, the foreign scene has exploded the recent months and are getting close to koreas level. If the lock would have come down 1 year ago the european and american scenes would have decayed into a very low level of skill. If they did that then then Polt would keep on winning easy, as it is now Polt can be taken down, any korean can be taken down. You want to argue Polt is still the undisputed god of America just let me remind you of Major, which is just one example.
As it is now the foreign scene can stand on its own and grow from here, the skill and talent are there. Stop saying foreigners are low level or blizzcon will be a joke. An all korean blizzcon is definitely still possible and if foreigners do get there they can hold their own. The foreigners are getting closer to Koreans BECAUSE they have to compete with koreans on a regular basis. Even now, there's like 3 foreigners out there right now who can consistantly compete with decent Koreans. And to say that if Polt can be taken down any of them can is laughable, Polt probably wouldn't make Code S. The foreign scene benefits from koreans being involved, this will only hurt it. This is patently untrue. If you think non-Koreans get better from a single best-of-x series in a tournament against Koreans, you don't have any idea how people get good at the game. It's endless hours of practice, long discussions about strategy, and dedication that get you to a good enough level to be able to showcase your skill at a tournament. The Western scene has been struggling for far too long, having all the money in the scene funnelled out to Korea instead of being invested locally to build the same level of infrastructure that Korea already has. If you really think having Koreans taking all the prize money from every tournament is beneficial to non-Korean teams, tell me, why are the Koreans still so dominant? In fact, they're far more dominant now than they ever were at WoL's release. I agree with a lot of what you say, the key here is ladder. Like you say, ladder play and competition on ladder is a big part of what is needed for improvement. Basically what this regionlock is say is "If you compete on WCS America, then give something back to the scene here". Sure many players play on KR even if they are in America but recently the level of competition has increased and its only likely to keep going. What this lock means is that if you want to play in WCS AM then, you need to live in AM. Which means 1) More money back to the local scene and not leaking out to korea 2) If you live in AM its more likely you contribute to the scene, through competing in other tournaments, playing on ladder and so on. If you think Pigbaby coming to AM, going through the tournament, winning it and then going home with the money is good the AM scene then you are wrong. Like iamcaustic said, playing a BoF x against him and being taken out doesn't increase the level of the scene at all, Polt for example though has been a very good catalyst for the AM scene. This has at least potential to be good for the foreign scenes, no more bounty hunters, coming over and reap the rewards that other people have sown. If I recall, players are required to play a certain amount (200?) of ladder games in their region every season in order to be allowed to enter the qualifiers for a tournament. Maybe a BoX against Pigbaby doesn't significantly increase the skill level of the NA scene, but 200 ladder games against him might. Not really, most pros in teams can play the Korean server, the point is they choose not to. There is no excuse for NA teams. EG provided their Starcraft 2 team with a house in Nor cal (which gets freaking good ping to Korea like 20ms perfect ping) yet EG members still refused to play on the Korean server, I think suppy was the only one willing to play on it. That is their choice for not wanting to improve. Root since being in Nor cal has been playing on Korea, at least Catz has, I wish their other players would follow suit. Point is Players on Pro teams have access to Korean server with decent ping, they choose not to play on it, that is their own darn fault for not wanting to improve, they don't need Koreans to play on NA or EU to improve. EU tho has worse ping to Korea, so it was nice seeing some Korean influence on the EU server to improve some players. NA has no excuse tho, most of NA that can get decent internet, can have flawless ping to South Korea, I'm a poor college student in So cal and have a bad internet connect, I can still get like perfect ping to South Korean server on starcraft 2. Full Region lock sucks IMO this is hurts Korea so much. NA players being lazy (yes lazy EG members could play on Korea fine but choose not to) This is a joke. Wake up Blizzard you are hurting starcraft 2 because of the poor whiners and cry babies on NA.
EG streams were first and foremost an advertising outlet. If you think the EG players didn't have Korean accounts they played on, you're kidding yourself (they sometimes played on them, especially if AM server was down). The reason EG could even afford a team house was because they had sponsors, and they dedicated time to running streams to peddle the sponsor wares and interact with their key demographic: North America. Therefore, they mostly streamed AM server.
It's called running a business. Don't mistake that with the actual practice regime. For example, it's been well known that Incontrol helped coach a bunch of the players at the team house, but you very rarely saw that on the interactive streams. He was usually running his own stream to boot.
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On September 05 2014 16:48 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 09:58 Fionn wrote:
The year is 2018.
Polt is a 52-time WCS America champion. will be hard with only 3 WCS seasons per year . But yeah, I see where this comes from. BUT this will help out the NA region the same way, it helped EU, when those korean players like ForGG, Stardust, Jjakji and so on came over to live here and play on the server. And instead of LoL, where the different region barely meet over the course of a year, you still have tons of international tournaments like IEM, Dreamhack in SC2, where you still got the high level competition between all 3 regions.
Let me ask you a question. Who is going to foot the bill for those Koreans to come live here? It isn't as though there's a ton of excess money from sponsors just waiting to pick up brand new Korean players in NA, if there was don't you think we'd already see more of them?
It isn't a simple solution to say that more players will simply move over here now. Who's going to sponsor them? Where are they supposed to live? Can they even qualify for the athlete's visas?
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Really weird decision. All the region-lock drama became pretty quiet since the beginning of 2014.
The skill of Foreigners in EU/NA/China/Oceania increased (probably due to harder competition on ladder).
The fears of a dwindling foreign scene because of no region lock did not come true - so why changing the concept after it proved itself being quite stable?
Especially the european scene benefit from the participation of koreans in WCS EU - this was possible because of no region lock. The residency came after the success in EU for most of the EU-Koreans. In the long run the region lock will starve out the fluctuation of Pro-Koreans and so slow down the skill-improvement in the foreign scene.
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I definitely do not like these changes, and the entire "foreigners must win" agenda that many seem to have.
However, the ZvProleague or GomPvP were very hard to watch and I miss Korean tournaments with the full stacked Koreans at their top shape.
If they want it to be like LoL, where twice or so a year a Korean team shits on a foreign team in the finals there is no reasoning with them. Instead of working towards parity, keep living in a false sense of reality that gets crushed twice a year.
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Hopefully more explanation come soon... If only native citizens of EU/NA/KR (ofc NA include all those regions which they meant before) would be rly good... i dont ask for WCS 2012 when it was each country quali and bla bla bla, which was GREAT. But if only ppl who native Eu/NA/KR can play WCS Eu/Na/Kr would be rly great... i guess viewers numbes gonna grow because of ppl wanna cheer for their country...
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United States43 Posts
On September 05 2014 10:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 10:21 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
If WCS NA and EU have the same amount or even a compareable amount of WCS points as GSL then the system and Blizzcon have become even more of a joke than they already were. They are going to give out the exact same number of points, just like every other regional sport in creation.
Oh  It's a good thing SC2 is not like every other regional sport in creation.
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Mute City2363 Posts
So EU will stay mostly pretty similar. NA becomes instantly much less appealing, and Korean mid-low tier gets completely fucked. Also, in before *insert fan favourite Korean* gets cheesed out of Code A qualifiers
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EPT
