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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
On September 05 2014 12:47 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:46 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 12:46 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:44 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:41 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:38 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:35 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:30 Circumstance wrote:On September 05 2014 12:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 12:19 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
[quote]
But Arium has an American flag guys! Clearly this is what we wanted, to watch Arium play against Shana! Ya, american players are so much more interesting just because they have white skin! For the love of God, not this strawman again. If skin tone was a factor in supporting foreigners, explain Suppy. Or Masa. Or Catz. Or Hendralisk. Or Illusion. Obviously, since they're not white, nobody wants them to win anything, right? This argument needs to disappear, because it's so blatantly and obviously flawed, and it makes everyone look bad. There is NO racial component for people liking the idea of players being able to succeed without being Korean. But there is actually a racial component, locking out Koreans (a race of people) just because they have the strictest regiment and the history / pedigree. There's an existing inequality between non-korean vs korean performance in NA and EU, and this is the answer, it's absolutely race based, if not nation / political bloq based (and let's not get into that shit). Except EU will be filled with Koreans because they already live there, but let's just ignore that fact and go with the racism argument because it's easier. Hey, I'm not even talking on behalf of the Koreans here, I'm worried about the Chinese community that's been fucked over time and time again. Region lock is restricting people of specific geopolitical locations to play in their own community, and there is an established inequality present, I'm not saying it's racist against Koreans, I'm saying that the consequences are that specific races of people who reside as a majority in some regions get the short end. No formate is going to be perfect for everyone in the world. Well obviously people are in this thread celebrating the fact that NA heroes are getting an advantage (yet again), while China's been systematically relegated for like 3 years. At least throw us a bone, something. They'll make an annual event called beat Jaedong. Every Chinese player shows up and eliminates Jaedong in a match! What happens if Jaedong wins a game?
Umm... loser gets sent to NA jail?
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I think this change is good for the longevity of the scene. I think most of the ppl complaining about this change are the more hardcore elements of the sc2 scene,the guys have been watching sc2 for years and have been cheering for the top Koreans even before sc2 came out. I can understand why those of ppl don't like this change.
I started watching StarCraft at the start of 2013 right as HotS was released, I have never watched GSL because the vods are paywalled and the Korean time etc and I rarely watch proleague because I just don't have much intrest in the player and teams involved. For me season 1 and 2 of wcs this years was really boring, all these random Koreans like pigbaby who I have never heard of before come in and wreck other random Koreans like revival and Oz.
I think most people love watching sports to see their favorite players play, for many ppl top Koreans like flash, jeadong are their favorites, for me, who never watched brood war, my players are the local heroes, Scarlett, kane, polt, suppy, major, neeb, minigun, huk, these are the players I want to see play. When there is a tourney with players I don't care about I don't watch. The excitment is not just about what happens in the game, its about if my player wins or not, just like in regular sports like footballs and soccer.
I don't buy the argument "everyone wants to see the top level of play" for one, the top NA players play at such a high level that most ppl( im not talking about the hardcore fans, you guys who have watched tons starcraft) would not be able to tell the difference between 2 barcode NA players or 2 barcode Koreans playing srsly, everyone uses the same builds anyway. For two, top play is not necessarily the most fun/ exciting to watch, I am not saying poor play is fun to watch, what I am saying is that at the top level the difference between top gsl players and top Na players is not so large that the games would be less exciting to watch.
I understand that this sucks for many of the Koreans but I think this is the best thing for the scene.
Imo this change will make it easier for the more casual fan to get interested in watching starcraft.
Just my 2 cents........
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On September 05 2014 12:44 HearthCraft wrote:
Finally if you want to play in America or Europe WCS, you need to be a resident. Only fair... Next step all live events like GSL...
That sounds awesome but that will never ever work. North America (and Europe too) and the regions they support are huge, and flying people back and forth for their games is time consuming and expensive. It works for Korea cause it's small and not too inconvenient to get to Seoul and play.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 05 2014 12:47 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:46 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 12:46 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:44 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:41 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:38 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:35 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:30 Circumstance wrote:On September 05 2014 12:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 05 2014 12:19 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
[quote]
But Arium has an American flag guys! Clearly this is what we wanted, to watch Arium play against Shana! Ya, american players are so much more interesting just because they have white skin! For the love of God, not this strawman again. If skin tone was a factor in supporting foreigners, explain Suppy. Or Masa. Or Catz. Or Hendralisk. Or Illusion. Obviously, since they're not white, nobody wants them to win anything, right? This argument needs to disappear, because it's so blatantly and obviously flawed, and it makes everyone look bad. There is NO racial component for people liking the idea of players being able to succeed without being Korean. But there is actually a racial component, locking out Koreans (a race of people) just because they have the strictest regiment and the history / pedigree. There's an existing inequality between non-korean vs korean performance in NA and EU, and this is the answer, it's absolutely race based, if not nation / political bloq based (and let's not get into that shit). Except EU will be filled with Koreans because they already live there, but let's just ignore that fact and go with the racism argument because it's easier. Hey, I'm not even talking on behalf of the Koreans here, I'm worried about the Chinese community that's been fucked over time and time again. Region lock is restricting people of specific geopolitical locations to play in their own community, and there is an established inequality present, I'm not saying it's racist against Koreans, I'm saying that the consequences are that specific races of people who reside as a majority in some regions get the short end. No formate is going to be perfect for everyone in the world. Well obviously people are in this thread celebrating the fact that NA heroes are getting an advantage (yet again), while China's been systematically relegated for like 3 years. At least throw us a bone, something. They'll make an annual event called beat Jaedong. Every Chinese player shows up and eliminates Jaedong in a match! What happens if Jaedong wins a game?
I never accounted for a possibility where Jaedong could win.
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On September 05 2014 12:49 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:47 The_Templar wrote:On September 05 2014 12:46 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 12:46 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:44 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:41 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:38 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:35 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:30 Circumstance wrote:On September 05 2014 12:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
[quote]
Ya, american players are so much more interesting just because they have white skin! For the love of God, not this strawman again. If skin tone was a factor in supporting foreigners, explain Suppy. Or Masa. Or Catz. Or Hendralisk. Or Illusion. Obviously, since they're not white, nobody wants them to win anything, right? This argument needs to disappear, because it's so blatantly and obviously flawed, and it makes everyone look bad. There is NO racial component for people liking the idea of players being able to succeed without being Korean. But there is actually a racial component, locking out Koreans (a race of people) just because they have the strictest regiment and the history / pedigree. There's an existing inequality between non-korean vs korean performance in NA and EU, and this is the answer, it's absolutely race based, if not nation / political bloq based (and let's not get into that shit). Except EU will be filled with Koreans because they already live there, but let's just ignore that fact and go with the racism argument because it's easier. Hey, I'm not even talking on behalf of the Koreans here, I'm worried about the Chinese community that's been fucked over time and time again. Region lock is restricting people of specific geopolitical locations to play in their own community, and there is an established inequality present, I'm not saying it's racist against Koreans, I'm saying that the consequences are that specific races of people who reside as a majority in some regions get the short end. No formate is going to be perfect for everyone in the world. Well obviously people are in this thread celebrating the fact that NA heroes are getting an advantage (yet again), while China's been systematically relegated for like 3 years. At least throw us a bone, something. They'll make an annual event called beat Jaedong. Every Chinese player shows up and eliminates Jaedong in a match! What happens if Jaedong wins a game? I never accounted for a possibility where Jaedong could win.
He's automatically awarded a seed into Blizzcon.
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your Country52798 Posts
On September 05 2014 12:49 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:47 The_Templar wrote:On September 05 2014 12:46 stuchiu wrote:On September 05 2014 12:46 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:44 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:41 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:38 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2014 12:35 Caihead wrote:On September 05 2014 12:30 Circumstance wrote:On September 05 2014 12:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
[quote]
Ya, american players are so much more interesting just because they have white skin! For the love of God, not this strawman again. If skin tone was a factor in supporting foreigners, explain Suppy. Or Masa. Or Catz. Or Hendralisk. Or Illusion. Obviously, since they're not white, nobody wants them to win anything, right? This argument needs to disappear, because it's so blatantly and obviously flawed, and it makes everyone look bad. There is NO racial component for people liking the idea of players being able to succeed without being Korean. But there is actually a racial component, locking out Koreans (a race of people) just because they have the strictest regiment and the history / pedigree. There's an existing inequality between non-korean vs korean performance in NA and EU, and this is the answer, it's absolutely race based, if not nation / political bloq based (and let's not get into that shit). Except EU will be filled with Koreans because they already live there, but let's just ignore that fact and go with the racism argument because it's easier. Hey, I'm not even talking on behalf of the Koreans here, I'm worried about the Chinese community that's been fucked over time and time again. Region lock is restricting people of specific geopolitical locations to play in their own community, and there is an established inequality present, I'm not saying it's racist against Koreans, I'm saying that the consequences are that specific races of people who reside as a majority in some regions get the short end. No formate is going to be perfect for everyone in the world. Well obviously people are in this thread celebrating the fact that NA heroes are getting an advantage (yet again), while China's been systematically relegated for like 3 years. At least throw us a bone, something. They'll make an annual event called beat Jaedong. Every Chinese player shows up and eliminates Jaedong in a match! What happens if Jaedong wins a game? I never accounted for a possibility where Jaedong could win.
he took a map off of Has, who is probably the best taiwan player
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On September 05 2014 12:48 SlammerIV wrote:
I think most people love watching sports to see their favorite players play, for many ppl top Koreans like flash, jeadong are their favorites, for me, who never watched brood war, my players are the local heroes, Scarlett, kane, polt, suppy, major, neeb, minigun, huk, these are the players I want to see play.
You're already seeing these people play under the current system. You're trading the koreans for people of a lower level than these. Will you create connexions with these new people if you watch their games? Yeah, sure. Right about the same connexions that you would have gotten with the koreans if you had taken the time to watch them.
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so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions?
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your Country52798 Posts
On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions?
I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money.
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Waiting on some more info, it seems like this is a good decision in the long term, though there will be a short term hit to the scene.
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Well, considering we have 57% in favor of the region lock change on TL, the most elitist collection of SC2 fans out there, this is probably a good thing overall that most people want. Oh well.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 05 2014 12:55 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions? I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money.
The money distribution was chosen by GOM though. Even if Blizzard gave more money to the GSL, what's not to say GOM wouldn't simply add most of it to the first place?
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whelp, looks like I won't be watching WCS AM next year >.<
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On September 05 2014 12:55 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions? I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money.
I think a better approach is not increase the size/prize/points of GSL but to to add more tournaments that run simultaneously. That way you prevent the top 10 KR players winning everything and spread more the prize/exposure among the players.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On September 05 2014 12:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:55 The_Templar wrote:On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions? I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money. The money distribution was chosen by GOM though. Even if Blizzard gave more money to the GSL, what's not to say GOM wouldn't simply add most of it to the first place?
the prize distribution was actually decided with the input of the players
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Will TL put together a bunch of the pros' reactions, from foreigners to "foreign Koreans" to Kespa players? That'd be really insightful I'd find.
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On September 05 2014 12:59 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:55 The_Templar wrote:On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions? I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money. I think a better approach is not increase the size/prize/points of GSL but to to add more tournaments that run simultaneously. That way you prevent the top 10 KR players winning everything and spread more the prize/exposure among the players.
You mean have a OSL/MSL system but each player can only pick one to play in?
Isn't that kind of what WCS AM is to WCS KR right now?
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On September 05 2014 13:00 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 05 2014 12:55 The_Templar wrote:On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions? I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money. The money distribution was chosen by GOM though. Even if Blizzard gave more money to the GSL, what's not to say GOM wouldn't simply add most of it to the first place? the prize distribution was actually decided with the input of the players
They probably asked sOs.
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On September 05 2014 12:59 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2014 12:55 The_Templar wrote:On September 05 2014 12:54 Lunareste wrote:
so we're going to make GSL be worth 10x as much as the other WCS regions in terms of points, right?
or are we also gonna stop giving wcs points for international competitions? I think WCS should make at least make the GSL a lot less top heavy than it is. Top 16 should all get pretty heavily rewarded in points and money. I think a better approach is not increase the size/prize/points of GSL but to to add more tournaments that run simultaneously. That way you prevent the top 10 KR players winning everything and spread more the prize/exposure among the players.
OSL was fun.
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I just want to point out that I hate the way these type of anouncements are made, with incomplete information and with very vague terms. At this point we have to speculate on the repercutions of the new system by guessing, not by taking into account all the facts.
It is even worse that seems to be the case that there are some decisions that have been taken but not been made public [TB hints in his audio talk to knowing something else]. I wish they could just release the complete "player handguide for wcs 2015" and avoid all the guessing, missinterpretation that will happen.
So to wait more...
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EPT
