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On August 14 2014 01:16 metzninja wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 16:39 Defenestrator wrote:On August 13 2014 15:22 Chuddinater wrote:
I would like to correct statements that Destiny made insinuating interest in Starcraft II e-sports is declining in Korea. Starcraft II Proleague this year saw massive growth from last year in viewership numbers, almost doubling, and the amount of people who have searched for it on naver, the most popular search engine in Korea, grew tremendously. After the finals Proleague was the number one searched topic on naver, which is huge considering naver has 75% of the market share in Korea. Starcraft II has seen massive growth this year and we hope to continue growing it.
Regarding the size of the venue, the venue was not filled last year. This year it was a smaller venue, but it reached way past the maximum capacity of the venue. Because it was outside and in such a populated area many people walking by would stop and watch. Some of these people watched Broodwars in the past and they would stop and talk with their friends reminiscing about the Broodwar players of past and them playing when they were younger. It was an amazing event and
an amazing location to hold the finals as well as grow interest for casual fans or people who do not watch Starcraft II at all. Chud if you had managed to keep this level of professionalism in your original email, all the KeSPA-related controversy in this thread never would have happened. This type of thing negatively impacts how KeSPA is viewed outside of Korea, which is not in anyone's interest, and you are partly to blame for that. I don't know how much you care, but it doesn't help you at all to have responded using the language that you did. Simply stating "we are not interested in sending players at this time, but we would consider involvement in your tournaments in the future" with no reason would have sufficed (reasons would have helped), and tbh I don't care what Destiny says about him not caring about the language used, truth is you came off as a total dick, it pissed him off, and the situation is what it is today. This would have still been a truthful response and accomplished a lot more than what you did. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been lowered by following this thread. Of course, given how you responded in the first place, you probably don't care. This is ridiculous. If you can't see how professional Chuddinator has been, and you can't see the positives of his interaction not only with Destiny, but with the Teamliquid community, you are not the sort of person whose lowered opinions matter at all. You have a bias and you have stuck to it despite all evidence being to the contrary. Destiny is not debating the professionalism of Chuddinator, he is debating the role of KeSPA in providing access to tournaments, as well as presenting his view of their obligations to the SC2 scene. In fact, the least professional action was for Destiny to share the email (not saying that anti-professional is bad, it's just that the act of sharing an email tends to inflame a situation). It is due to Chuddinator, particularly, that this hasn't inflamed the situation. We have a KeSPA representative presenting fair, logical points of view on a western forum. Can you appreciate this? Were you around when many of KeSPA's more controversial decisions (in Brood War particularly) were not addressed by KeSPA at all? This situation, in comparison, is not at all controversial, and yet we still receive this response. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been raised by following this thread.
Not defending the guy you quoted, but the sad truth is that in the public, you are not judged by the sum of what you have done, but by the worst thing you have done in recent history.
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On August 14 2014 01:08 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 23:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 22:06 Grovbolle wrote:On August 13 2014 21:02 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 20:56 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:20 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote:
I still laugh at people saying that Destiny stole 1800$, wtf guys, it is underpayment for all the work he did. And why would he do a tournament like that for free ? Are you morons ? v_v Who the fuck has said the Destiny stole $1800? You, kindof. Bollocks. Destiny hasn't stolen a penny and I never claimed that he has. Please quote me where I have said that, that's right you can't because you're talking shit. In no way shape or form have I even insinuated that. All I have said is that I feel the remaining profit from sponsorship money after Destiny has been compensated for casting and organising the event should be put towards Destiny II. So you say he should have used this money for Destiny II when 1k8 isn't even enough compensation for the work he did. So you are saying he stole the investissement money. ??? I don't even... Crot4le, the reason people misunderstand you is because you never defined how much Destiny should have been compensated for his casting. Since his compensation wasn't part of the original funding/indiegogo, it makes sense for him to pocket the sponsorship money. However, in the future I agree with you that he should specify his own compensation in the crowdfunding campaign, and if he exceeds his funding goals (say 10K) he should not pocket the surplus but put that towards the next tournament. That's exactly what I mean, I guess I should learn to be more clearer. Wait, Destiny kept the money from the sponsorships? I thought this tournament was a "from the community for the community" experiment and that any money made from it would flow to the next few tournaments of which Destiny hoped to make some surplus money. :o
Community gave ~500$ extra that will go to the next tournament. Sponsors are not the Community, nor their money.
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United States23455 Posts
Almost 2k for running the tournament? Not a bad payout for you Destiny! Hope to see you run more in the near future! :D
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On August 14 2014 01:38 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2014 01:08 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 13 2014 23:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 22:06 Grovbolle wrote:On August 13 2014 21:02 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 20:56 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:20 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote:
I still laugh at people saying that Destiny stole 1800$, wtf guys, it is underpayment for all the work he did. And why would he do a tournament like that for free ? Are you morons ? v_v Who the fuck has said the Destiny stole $1800? You, kindof. Bollocks. Destiny hasn't stolen a penny and I never claimed that he has. Please quote me where I have said that, that's right you can't because you're talking shit. In no way shape or form have I even insinuated that. All I have said is that I feel the remaining profit from sponsorship money after Destiny has been compensated for casting and organising the event should be put towards Destiny II. So you say he should have used this money for Destiny II when 1k8 isn't even enough compensation for the work he did. So you are saying he stole the investissement money. ??? I don't even... Crot4le, the reason people misunderstand you is because you never defined how much Destiny should have been compensated for his casting. Since his compensation wasn't part of the original funding/indiegogo, it makes sense for him to pocket the sponsorship money. However, in the future I agree with you that he should specify his own compensation in the crowdfunding campaign, and if he exceeds his funding goals (say 10K) he should not pocket the surplus but put that towards the next tournament. That's exactly what I mean, I guess I should learn to be more clearer. Wait, Destiny kept the money from the sponsorships? I thought this tournament was a "from the community for the community" experiment and that any money made from it would flow to the next few tournaments of which Destiny hoped to make some surplus money. :o Community gave ~500$ extra that will go to the next tournament. Sponsors are not the Community, nor their money.
Well, I probably misunderstood what this tournament was about.
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On August 14 2014 01:47 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2014 01:38 Faust852 wrote:On August 14 2014 01:08 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 13 2014 23:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 22:06 Grovbolle wrote:On August 13 2014 21:02 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 20:56 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:20 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote:
[quote]
Who the fuck has said the Destiny stole $1800? You, kindof. Bollocks. Destiny hasn't stolen a penny and I never claimed that he has. Please quote me where I have said that, that's right you can't because you're talking shit. In no way shape or form have I even insinuated that. All I have said is that I feel the remaining profit from sponsorship money after Destiny has been compensated for casting and organising the event should be put towards Destiny II. So you say he should have used this money for Destiny II when 1k8 isn't even enough compensation for the work he did. So you are saying he stole the investissement money. ??? I don't even... Crot4le, the reason people misunderstand you is because you never defined how much Destiny should have been compensated for his casting. Since his compensation wasn't part of the original funding/indiegogo, it makes sense for him to pocket the sponsorship money. However, in the future I agree with you that he should specify his own compensation in the crowdfunding campaign, and if he exceeds his funding goals (say 10K) he should not pocket the surplus but put that towards the next tournament. That's exactly what I mean, I guess I should learn to be more clearer. Wait, Destiny kept the money from the sponsorships? I thought this tournament was a "from the community for the community" experiment and that any money made from it would flow to the next few tournaments of which Destiny hoped to make some surplus money. :o Community gave ~500$ extra that will go to the next tournament. Sponsors are not the Community, nor their money. Well, I probably misunderstood what this tournament was about.
It was about running a tournament, helping NA scene and that's it.
And it did what it promised : great tournament, good games, good players, good cast, and transparency.
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On August 14 2014 01:16 metzninja wrote:
We have a KeSPA representative presenting fair, logical points of view on a western forum. Can you appreciate this? Were you around when many of KeSPA's more controversial decisions (in Brood War particularly) were not addressed by KeSPA at all? This situation, in comparison, is not at all controversial, and yet we still receive this response. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been raised by following this thread.
We have Destiny, the sole representative of NeSPA, presenting a fair logical pov detailing why he probably won't bother with getting KeSPA players. That contrary to KeSPA, he is working hard to see a revived SC2 scene, primarily in NA. That he probably can rely on NA and perhaps EU for sponsors and financial support, so he will address that scene first. That the hussle and amount of shoes shinning needed to get 2 b teamers from KeSPA isn't worth the extra 10k(?) he could or could not get from that. That he should focus on getting better condition of play to the top Koreans that would like to participate. Can't you appreciate this? This situation, in comparison, is not at all controversial, and yet we still receive this response. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been lowered by following this thread.
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On August 12 2014 00:37 Hot_Bid wrote:
I think the transparency is really nice. I wonder why anyone thinks that $1,800 is too much for the amount of work Destiny put in. He deserved it.
I didn't personally contribute to this one but I probably will for the next one.
Not the biggest Destiny fan, but I did watch the tournament. Between the obvious hours of prep work, composing emails (like the one we are reading now), coordinating with the players and casters, securing sponsors, and six days of casting -I think $1,800 probably comes in at around $4/hr, So, yes, I think if anything he is being very conservative and/or low with his profit from this event. I also like the transparency.
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On August 14 2014 01:08 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 23:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 22:06 Grovbolle wrote:On August 13 2014 21:02 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 20:56 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:29 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:20 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote:On August 13 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote:
I still laugh at people saying that Destiny stole 1800$, wtf guys, it is underpayment for all the work he did. And why would he do a tournament like that for free ? Are you morons ? v_v Who the fuck has said the Destiny stole $1800? You, kindof. Bollocks. Destiny hasn't stolen a penny and I never claimed that he has. Please quote me where I have said that, that's right you can't because you're talking shit. In no way shape or form have I even insinuated that. All I have said is that I feel the remaining profit from sponsorship money after Destiny has been compensated for casting and organising the event should be put towards Destiny II. So you say he should have used this money for Destiny II when 1k8 isn't even enough compensation for the work he did. So you are saying he stole the investissement money. ??? I don't even... Crot4le, the reason people misunderstand you is because you never defined how much Destiny should have been compensated for his casting. Since his compensation wasn't part of the original funding/indiegogo, it makes sense for him to pocket the sponsorship money. However, in the future I agree with you that he should specify his own compensation in the crowdfunding campaign, and if he exceeds his funding goals (say 10K) he should not pocket the surplus but put that towards the next tournament. That's exactly what I mean, I guess I should learn to be more clearer. Wait, Destiny kept the money from the sponsorships? I thought this tournament was a "from the community for the community" experiment and that any money made from it would flow to the next few tournaments of which Destiny hoped to make some surplus money. :o
He kept the money he received from the sponsors he picked up. Pretty sure he stated from the beginning that he would use all the money from the indigogo for Destiny I, and whatever was left would go towards Destiny II while what he makes from sponsors and ad revenue he would keep.
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considering the viewership, he failed the big enough "established fan base". But I guess in KeSPA's math, 2k viewers is better than 20k.
Basically, we just confirmed. KeSPA b-teamers are damaging for viewership numbers. KeSPA should be asked to pay a fee before being allowed to send it's players to foreign tournament.
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On August 14 2014 01:16 metzninja wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 16:39 Defenestrator wrote:On August 13 2014 15:22 Chuddinater wrote:
I would like to correct statements that Destiny made insinuating interest in Starcraft II e-sports is declining in Korea. Starcraft II Proleague this year saw massive growth from last year in viewership numbers, almost doubling, and the amount of people who have searched for it on naver, the most popular search engine in Korea, grew tremendously. After the finals Proleague was the number one searched topic on naver, which is huge considering naver has 75% of the market share in Korea. Starcraft II has seen massive growth this year and we hope to continue growing it.
Regarding the size of the venue, the venue was not filled last year. This year it was a smaller venue, but it reached way past the maximum capacity of the venue. Because it was outside and in such a populated area many people walking by would stop and watch. Some of these people watched Broodwars in the past and they would stop and talk with their friends reminiscing about the Broodwar players of past and them playing when they were younger. It was an amazing event and
an amazing location to hold the finals as well as grow interest for casual fans or people who do not watch Starcraft II at all. Chud if you had managed to keep this level of professionalism in your original email, all the KeSPA-related controversy in this thread never would have happened. This type of thing negatively impacts how KeSPA is viewed outside of Korea, which is not in anyone's interest, and you are partly to blame for that. I don't know how much you care, but it doesn't help you at all to have responded using the language that you did. Simply stating "we are not interested in sending players at this time, but we would consider involvement in your tournaments in the future" with no reason would have sufficed (reasons would have helped), and tbh I don't care what Destiny says about him not caring about the language used, truth is you came off as a total dick, it pissed him off, and the situation is what it is today. This would have still been a truthful response and accomplished a lot more than what you did. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been lowered by following this thread. Of course, given how you responded in the first place, you probably don't care. This is ridiculous. If you can't see how professional Chuddinator has been, and you can't see the positives of his interaction not only with Destiny, but with the Teamliquid community, you are not the sort of person whose lowered opinions matter at all.
I don't see the positives of his interaction with Destiny. When you get a college rejection letter, it reads something like, "We are sorry but there were other candidates who better fit our admissions criteria, so we are not able to offer you admission at this time," not "To be frank, what value would you add to our campus? You have a 2.5 GPA." When you get a job rejection letter, you either do not hear anything back at all, or you get something like "Sorry but you are not a fit for this position at this time," not "To be frank, what value would you add to our company? Your experience in eSports is poor, and we are not interested." One approach keeps bridges open; the other burns them. Do you really think Destiny would have posted Chud's email response if it had been in the same tone as the former approaches? And if he did, do you think people would be disparaging Chud/KeSPA for being a dick? (I'm obviously not the only one)
Chud came onto this forum for damage control (maybe they do care?). He has been very professional on this thread, no doubt, but he has also reinforced the arrogance of KeSPA and giving disingenuous arguments here and there (maybe Flash and Maru did reject tournament invitations, but were they online and requiring no travel? This is a very low-effort entry on KeSPA's part and their players).
We have a KeSPA representative presenting fair, logical points of view on a western forum. Can you appreciate this? Were you around when many of KeSPA's more controversial decisions (in Brood War particularly) were not addressed by KeSPA at all? This situation, in comparison, is not at all controversial, and yet we still receive this response. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been raised by following this thread.
I think if KeSPA had not responded at all to Destiny's request, it would have served their interests better than Chud's email response being posted on a public forum.
On August 14 2014 01:31 JustPassingBy wrote:
Not defending the guy you quoted, but the sad truth is that in the public, you are not judged by the sum of what you have done, but by the worst thing you have done in recent history.
I am judging by the original email sent in what Chud probably assumed would only be read by one person, not his responses here which are read by everybody.
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Not overlapping with proleague finals.
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On August 14 2014 03:13 Defenestrator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2014 01:16 metzninja wrote:On August 13 2014 16:39 Defenestrator wrote:On August 13 2014 15:22 Chuddinater wrote:
I would like to correct statements that Destiny made insinuating interest in Starcraft II e-sports is declining in Korea. Starcraft II Proleague this year saw massive growth from last year in viewership numbers, almost doubling, and the amount of people who have searched for it on naver, the most popular search engine in Korea, grew tremendously. After the finals Proleague was the number one searched topic on naver, which is huge considering naver has 75% of the market share in Korea. Starcraft II has seen massive growth this year and we hope to continue growing it.
Regarding the size of the venue, the venue was not filled last year. This year it was a smaller venue, but it reached way past the maximum capacity of the venue. Because it was outside and in such a populated area many people walking by would stop and watch. Some of these people watched Broodwars in the past and they would stop and talk with their friends reminiscing about the Broodwar players of past and them playing when they were younger. It was an amazing event and
an amazing location to hold the finals as well as grow interest for casual fans or people who do not watch Starcraft II at all. Chud if you had managed to keep this level of professionalism in your original email, all the KeSPA-related controversy in this thread never would have happened. This type of thing negatively impacts how KeSPA is viewed outside of Korea, which is not in anyone's interest, and you are partly to blame for that. I don't know how much you care, but it doesn't help you at all to have responded using the language that you did. Simply stating "we are not interested in sending players at this time, but we would consider involvement in your tournaments in the future" with no reason would have sufficed (reasons would have helped), and tbh I don't care what Destiny says about him not caring about the language used, truth is you came off as a total dick, it pissed him off, and the situation is what it is today. This would have still been a truthful response and accomplished a lot more than what you did. My opinion of KeSPA has definitely been lowered by following this thread. Of course, given how you responded in the first place, you probably don't care. This is ridiculous. If you can't see how professional Chuddinator has been, and you can't see the positives of his interaction not only with Destiny, but with the Teamliquid community, you are not the sort of person whose lowered opinions matter at all. I don't see the positives of his interaction with Destiny. When you get a college rejection letter, it reads something like, "We are sorry but there were other candidates who better fit our admissions criteria, so we are not able to offer you admission at this time," not "To be frank, what value would you add to our campus? You have a 2.5 GPA." When you get a job rejection letter, you either do not hear anything back at all, or you get something like "Sorry but you are not a fit for this position at this time," not "To be frank, what value would you add to our company? Your experience in eSports is poor, and we are not interested." One approach keeps bridges open; the other burns them. Do you really think Destiny would have posted Chud's email response if it had been in the same tone as the former approaches? And if he did, do you think people would be disparaging Chud/KeSPA for being a dick? (I'm obviously not the only one)
Destiny was not applying to an opening. He asked someone he didn't know for something that wasn't his. And when that person asked for more information, Destiny called him selfish and posted an email online like he caught him red-handed or something. I mean clearly Chud was open to possibly working something out. Are we reading the same email? But if his organization doesn't suddenly drop to worship at Destiny's feet around the time of Proleague finals, that makes KeSPA selfish?
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Has destiny released the Ro8, Ro4, and finals replays yet?
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8751 Posts
On August 13 2014 13:33 Destiny wrote:
Please let me know if there's anyone else who's ever openly disclosed ad revenue + subscribers + money made via other revenue streams before.
Where is the report on twitch ad revenue? I'm still curious about how much just pre-roll ads generate in this situation.
From the indiegogo:
Following this tournament I'll provide a detailed write-up of viewership stats and how much money I was able to generate via sponsorships/ad revenue/etc...
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On August 14 2014 03:53 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 13:33 Destiny wrote:
Please let me know if there's anyone else who's ever openly disclosed ad revenue + subscribers + money made via other revenue streams before. Where is the report on twitch ad revenue? I'm still curious about how much just pre-roll ads generate in this situation. Show nested quote +From the indiegogo:
Following this tournament I'll provide a detailed write-up of viewership stats and how much money I was able to generate via sponsorships/ad revenue/etc...
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On August 14 2014 03:53 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 13:33 Destiny wrote:
Please let me know if there's anyone else who's ever openly disclosed ad revenue + subscribers + money made via other revenue streams before. Where is the report on twitch ad revenue? I'm still curious about how much just pre-roll ads generate in this situation. Show nested quote +From the indiegogo:
Following this tournament I'll provide a detailed write-up of viewership stats and how much money I was able to generate via sponsorships/ad revenue/etc...
https://twitter.com/Steven_Bonnell/status/499014271884607488
Less than $100
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"2014 destiny" didn't seem to last very long
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EPT
