EPT"Destiny I" Financial Report - Page 29
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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Grovbolle
Denmark3804 Posts
On August 13 2014 17:24 Destiny wrote: You're welcome to your own opinion. If all of your respect for me dissipates because I disagree with the way KeSPA does things (which, by the way, isn't even close to a unique opinion, but a commonly shared one that's ran all the way back to BW days), I never really valued your respect much in the first place. But the thing is, this is not BW, just like you aren't 2011 Destiny. There are a lot of people in this thread who agrees with you, but also quite a few who agrees with KeSPA's way of handling your enquiry. I hope Destiny II becomes a success, and I hope that we'll get to see KeSPA players more in foreign tourneys, that's my last post in this thread I think. Good luck Destiny. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On August 13 2014 17:58 -Archangel- wrote: For a guy that wants to do crowdfunding in the future, you really should not talk to the "crowd" in such a way. I'm not addressing "the crowd", though. If someone honestly thinks my communications with KeSPA have been horribly disrespectful and that I'm completely in the wrong, I doubt they'd contribute in the future anyway, no? I don't think I've said anything especially egregious in this thread towards any parties, regardless. | ||
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oBlade
United States5393 Posts
On August 13 2014 17:24 Destiny wrote: You're welcome to your own opinion. If all of your respect for me dissipates because I disagree with the way KeSPA does things (which, by the way, isn't even close to a unique opinion, but a commonly shared one that's ran all the way back to BW days), I never really valued your respect much in the first place. I feel like in any other context it would be obvious why your reaction doesn't make sense. What if you had an idea for an app and collected money from people who wanted the app to be realized and also counted up 100 times as many people who would use the app once it was released but didn't pay you anything to get it off the ground. Then, wanting to deliver a better app, you walk into a Microsoft office and ask for some coders. Your argument after the fact is although these are trained coders with professional obligations there's no reason they can't earn a few bucks in their free time just sitting at a computer. Microsoft, who independently built a software empire before the operating system your app runs on was conceived, politely says they don't see the benefit for them in the unsolicited proposal you sent but might still be open in the future. (Which by the way would be really cool if for instance you had a cool head and went back to them with the results of what a success your app had been and started a mutual relationship instead of... posting private correspondence online.) Then you flame them saying they need to save their dying company from being overtaken by Apple gaining market share and call them selfish for focusing on Windows 8 instead of having people work for your project. | ||
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
On August 13 2014 10:50 Dirt McGirt wrote: Did you miss the part where the $1800 was independent of the donated money? Did you miss the part where I said "after all it is on the back of community donations that he made such money (no donations, no prize pool, no tournament, no sponsorship money)." Without donations from the community there is no sponsorship money to be made. So perhaps once expenses have been paid the rest of the money could be put towards Destiny II so that the community saves money next time around, as it was entirely from donations that the tournament prizepool was funded. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On August 13 2014 18:22 oBlade wrote: I feel like in any other context it would be obvious why your reaction doesn't make sense. What if you had an idea for an app and collected money from people who wanted the app to be realized and also counted up 100 times as many people who would use the app once it was released but didn't pay you anything to get it off the ground. Then, wanting to deliver a better app, you walk into a Microsoft office and ask for some coders. Your argument after the fact is although these are trained coders with professional obligations there's no reason they can't earn a few bucks in their free time just sitting at a computer. Microsoft, who independently built a software empire before the operating system your app runs on was conceived, politely says they don't see the benefit for them in the unsolicited proposal you sent but might still be open in the future. (Which by the way would be really cool if for instance you had a cool head and went back to them with the results of what a success your app had been and started a mutual relationship instead of... posting private correspondence online.) Then you flame them saying they need to save their dying company from being overtaken by Apple gaining market share and call them selfish for focusing on Windows 8 instead of having people work for your project. This analogy is so awful and fails on so many different points that I'm not even sure if it's being said with any degree of seriousness. | ||
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
On August 13 2014 16:39 Defenestrator wrote: Chud if you had managed to keep this level of professionalism in your original email, Implying that Chud's orginal email was unprofessional... Dude wtf? | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
I want to thank all the contributors who chipped in with their absolutely hilarious ideas about business, money and transparency. I also want to thank KespA for continuing to not get it. Last , but not least , thanks to TB and Destiny for somehow finding the motivation to actually try and argue with people you simply cannot argue with. Most people would have given up way sooner. <3 | ||
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Penev
28451 Posts
On August 13 2014 18:22 oBlade wrote: I feel like in any other context it would be obvious why your reaction doesn't make sense. What if you had an idea for an app and collected money from people who wanted the app to be realized and also counted up 100 times as many people who would use the app once it was released but didn't pay you anything to get it off the ground. Then, wanting to deliver a better app, you walk into a Microsoft office and ask for some coders. Your argument after the fact is although these are trained coders with professional obligations there's no reason they can't earn a few bucks in their free time just sitting at a computer. Microsoft, who independently built a software empire before the operating system your app runs on was conceived, politely says they don't see the benefit for them in the unsolicited proposal you sent but might still be open in the future. (Which by the way would be really cool if for instance you had a cool head and went back to them with the results of what a success your app had been and started a mutual relationship instead of... posting private correspondence online.) Then you flame them saying they need to save their dying company from being overtaken by Apple gaining market share and call them selfish for focusing on Windows 8 instead of having people work for your project. Sigh, please not these kind of analogies.. Even if you're right; KeSPA shouldn't be like Microsoft (in your analogy). It should be up to the teams and/ or players to chose the tournaments they want to participate in. KeSPA should refrain to just advising on this matter, not actually DECIDE. | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8332 Posts
On August 13 2014 18:09 Destiny wrote: I'm not addressing "the crowd", though. If someone honestly thinks my communications with KeSPA have been horribly disrespectful and that I'm completely in the wrong, I doubt they'd contribute in the future anyway, no? I don't think I've said anything especially egregious in this thread towards any parties, regardless. I dont know if you have ever been in any corporate environment before but you've done quite a lot of wrong and disrespectful things in this thread - Publish private work email - Actively try to prove that the scene that they are managing is dying with fact, figure and whatnot - Deem potential (or should I say, desired?) partner as shortsighted, selfish, -insert ugly phrases- - Acts as if you & your new found online tournament represents the prospectus western scene and makes it like stubborn KeSPA vs promising western chances (when actually it's KeSPA turning down you & your new found online tournament, not IEM or DH or MLG) Like many have pointed out, if these get to KeSPA with its original meaning & intention(which I doubt since Chud is a nice dude), you should probably consider this a lost cause | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
On August 13 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote: I still laugh at people saying that Destiny stole 1800$, wtf guys, it is underpayment for all the work he did. And why would he do a tournament like that for free ? Are you morons ? v_v Who the fuck has said the Destiny stole $1800? | ||
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Dirt McGirt
New Zealand129 Posts
On August 13 2014 18:40 Crot4le wrote: Did you miss the part where I said "after all it is on the back of community donations that he made such money (no donations, no prize pool, no tournament, no sponsorship money)." Without donations from the community there is no sponsorship money to be made. So perhaps once expenses have been paid the rest of the money could be put towards Destiny II so that the community saves money next time around, as it was entirely from donations that the tournament prizepool was funded. That seems to take Destiny's efforts out of the equation though - certainly no argument about the community donations enabling the event but it wouldn't have happened without Destiny. Given the lack of a track record the sponsors were seemingly backing the Destiny brand while hoping for a successful event. I expect we'll see a different model for Destiny II in regards to how Destiny approaches his payment. But if he reconsiders ads does that act as a disincentive to donations? or if it remains ad free how does Destiny go about setting a payment for himself within the donation framework? We've already seen lots of different opinions about the $1800 he earned. I get the sense he'd have to underpay himself (according to the effort involved to run this sort of event) to make that work. If you are getting a quality event where the money is going where it was intended too (informed by transparency etc) then why a focus on saving community money for Destiny 2, 3, onward? If it's worth the money and things are above board people will continue to contribute, if not they won't. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On August 13 2014 19:06 Arceus wrote: I dont know if you have ever been in any corporate environment before but you've done quite a lot of wrong and disrespectful things in this thread - Publish private work email - Actively try to prove that the scene that they are managing is dying with fact, figure and whatnot - Deem potential (or should I say, desired?) partner as shortsighted, selfish, -insert ugly phrases- - Acts as if you & your new found online tournament represents the prospectus western scene and makes it like stubborn KeSPA vs promising western chances (when actually it's KeSPA turning down you & your new found online tournament, not IEM or DH or MLG) Like many have pointed out, if these get to KeSPA with its original meaning & intention(which I doubt since Chud is a nice dude), you should probably consider this a lost cause If by "this" you mean arguing about any of this on here, then yeah, I agree. Was fun discussions, guys. See you next tournament! | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On August 13 2014 19:17 Crot4le wrote: Who the fuck has said the Destiny stole $1800? You, kindof. | ||
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
Bollocks. Destiny hasn't stolen a penny and I never claimed that he has. Please quote me where I have said that, that's right you can't because you're talking shit. In no way shape or form have I even insinuated that. All I have said is that I feel the remaining profit from sponsorship money after Destiny has been compensated for casting and organising the event should be put towards Destiny II. | ||
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On August 13 2014 19:16 Faust852 wrote: Are you morons ? v_v It seems pretty clear that they are yes. Either that or middle/high schoolers who never worked a day in their life. I haven't seen anything wrong in what Destiny said/did, on the contrary. He did everything he said he would do and more, with every necessary detail published to be completely transparent, he paid himself with whatever was left (which is a crappy amount for the work that had to be done), the tournament was great and the most enjoyable I've seen in quite some time, KeSPA is KeSPA, and there *still* has to be a pack of genetically predisposed whiners looking for something to bitch about... Whatever... Great tournament, kudos to Destiny and the other casters, looking forward to the next one. | ||
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oBlade
United States5393 Posts
On August 13 2014 18:58 Penev wrote: Sigh, please not these kind of analogies.. Even if you're right; KeSPA shouldn't be like Microsoft (in your analogy). It should be up to the teams and/ or players to chose the tournaments they want to participate in. KeSPA should refrain to just advising on this matter, not actually DECIDE. Okay, suppose I granted you that KeSPA's model is wrong, and that they've mismanaged over a decade of e-sports, and that we should all be able to work together in a harmonious e-sports utopia. Which, while idealistic, would probably be awesome. What does it accomplish, whining and flaming publicly over a potential partner after just the first tournament? What is it supposed to accomplish? Does that help relations between Destiny's tournament and KeSPA? Is it leverage to make somebody in KeSPA want to fix something, because they're scared of being shut out of Destiny's tournaments in the future? Or is it just for attention? | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On August 13 2014 08:06 TotalBiscuit wrote: TaKe fanbois hounded my wife out of eSports over this false idea that "Being transparent is a beautiful thing, but pushing a conversation ("conversation" implies more than just yourself being involved) to the public requires the approval of the others who are involved", which is completely untrue. As I recall correctly you were one of the people involved. I'd have quit the scene that day if I didnt have my players to support. The SC2 community gets exactly what it deserves most of the time. The problem is not our transparency, it is that the SC2 community in general is too immature to handle the truth. You're pretty good at not referring to the argument but instead stepping on moral high ground via pushing your wife's (self-chosen!) fate to the focus of the discussion. Saying something "is completely untrue" is just as good as saying "it is completely true". So I guess we better agree to disagree before it comes down to plain insulting posts (as happened before between us)? Also, this: On August 13 2014 09:47 TotalBiscuit wrote: Since they didn't work with him in the first place I dont really see that being too much of a problem. Would you really work with someone who sets a private business conversation to the public because you declined his "offer"? Destiny kind of closed that door via publishing that emai IMO, but what counts is ofc not MO, but Kespa's O. | ||
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Maniak_
France305 Posts
On August 13 2014 19:45 boxerfred wrote: Would you really work with someone who sets a private business conversation to the public because you declined his "offer"? Or maybe you should take care of not writing 'professional' emails that could come back to bite you if they can be seen by more people than you thought. Which is pretty much a given for non-confidential conversations such as this. If you have a conversation with a company, any company, in any domain, and this company serves you bullshit, by all means put it up on public forums for everyone to see. That's the best anti-bullshit solution. Destiny kind of closed that door via publishing that emai IMO, but what counts is ofc not MO, but Kespa's O. What counts is whatever Destiny wants to do next. KeSPA didn't stop the tournament from getting a much better viewership than expected. No reason to think this would be a major issue (or an issue at all) for the next one. | ||
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