TaeJa was able to continue his recent strong performances against Jaedong with his third victory over Jaedong this year, keeping Jaedong to winning just one map. The series was marked by each player being content to play very standard TvZ with small early skirmishes and building up to big macro games. Taeja's superb widow mine control gained him the advantage and eventual victory in the first game, while Jaedong struck back in game two by shutting down Taeja's medivacs giving him a large advantage. Taeja was resilient and survived for other 15 minutes with at least a 50 supply deficit, but Jaedong's hive tech eventually over ran him.
The final two games of the series had Taeja gain small edges early on which snowballed into a large advantage. In the third game Jaedong's uncharacteristic sloppy mutalisk control while harassing cost him 7 mutalisks early on. The gas expended on replenishing these delayed Jaedong's 2-2 giving Taeja a timing window to exploit with his own 2-2. This culminated in Taeja winning the game. In the final game Taeja was able to delay Jaedong's third base with hellion/reaper while Jaedong's counter harass was largely ineffective. This economic deficit was never overcome by Jaedong, and Taeja closed out the series. This victory marks Taeja's first IEM final.
Solar vs Jim
Despite Jim being the home town hero, Solar continued his relentless run through IEM Shenzhen with another 3-0 victory. Jim looked thoroughly out classed in all three games, trying desperate cannon rushes in games 1 and 3 and the popular heavy zealot pressure strategy in game 2. Solar looked effortless in deflecting all of Jim's early aggression and dismantled Jim with solid play. Jim's desperate 9 gate attack in game 3 was symbolic of the entire series; Solar was able to counter attack with speedlings to shut down his economy while picking off stray warp in pylons. It was a game where nothing went Jim's way, and ultimately Solar was able to defend with his trademark mutalisk/+1 zergling composition. Solar has gone undefeated this tournament against Protoss, and is currently 6-0 in the single elimination bracket. He is quickly making a name for himself as arguably the best ZvP player in the world and a candidate for best Zerg in the world (and wise pick for future fantasy proleague teams!).
IEM Shenzhen Grand Final: Solar vs Taeja
Fans were treated to one of the best finals in recent memory as two extremely strong players squared off for $10,000 and 750 WCS Points. The first game of the night was a hotly contested macro game on Overgrowth, both players exchanged blows but ultimately Taeja was caught out of position and allowed his army to be surrounded by Solar. Solar tore through the army and took an early lead in the series. The second game on Nimbus was a clinic by Taeja on how to use medivacs to drop to maximum effectiveness. Taeja's continual harass on Solar's in-base natural proved too much for Solar and the series was evened up 1-1.
The third game on King Sejong Statoin of the series was easily the game of the night. Another macro game developed very similarly to the first game. This time, however, neither side was willing to commit their maxed army to a fight and only small blows were traded. Eventually Solar's impressive movement about the map got Taeja out of position which he immediately capitalised on. Taeja somehow managed to hang on and grab a fifth base which dragged the game well past the 30 minute mark. Even though Solar was unable to break Taeja's defenses, Solar was able to drag Taeja across the map and eventually shut down Taeja's fifth/sixth base. This forced Taeja to attack which Solar managed to defend and take a 2-1 lead.
Merry Go Roound was the site of the fourth game, where both sides made some critical errors. Taeja bungled his aggression allowing Solar an opportunity for his mutalisks to go to work on Taeja's economy -- but then Solar lost his entire mutalisk flock to widow mines which gave Taeja a firm lead in the game. It wasn't long before Taeja attacked and evened the series out yet again. Games 5 and 6 were decided by two aggressive all ins. Game 5 on Foxtrot had Solar successfully zergling/baneling all in Taeja while game 6 on Deadwing (in the dreaded horizontal positiones) had Taeja miraculously hold a roach rush from Solar. As Solar had no intention of taking the game long, Taeja was able to close out the game.
The final game of the night on Catallena had Taeja's experience come through. Taeja utilized a cloaked banshee/hellion strategy which eliminated all but one queen of Solar's. Things went from bad to worse as Solar was unable to gain a footing in the game; losing more queens and drones to the banshees. Taeja never let up off the aggression and his follow up marine/medivac attacks sealed the game and the series for Taeja.
This is Taeja's 11th premier event win (from 12 finals appearances) and first IEM victory. Taeja now has his sights firmly set on a Blizzcon/WCS win and currently sits fifth on the WCS points standings.
Solar and Taeja are both qualified for the IEM IX Grand Finals to be held at the end of the IEM season.
Im sorry to Taeja, hes been spectacular, but Solar is literally unstoppable right now. Its just... I mean, you just watch his play and his reaction after he wins. Sometimes there are those days when players (in sports or esports) just have everything going right for them. Their micro, macro and strats are all near perfect and nothing fazes them "in the zone" you could call it. Solar has that going on right now. Id be very surprised if he lost.
This is really championship level starcraft O_O Amazing series. No offense to MC and Sacsri earlier today, but these guys would wipe the floor with them right now.
On July 20 2014 13:13 Circumstance wrote: That's a very convenient title for the finals. This way, only 2 letters have to be changed for the recap article's title.
W O W. just wow. Taeja is a fuckin beast O_O fear the god of summer man... and i really thought solar looked unstopable coming in...and even a couple times in the series... Taeja is like a freight train... at the end of the day you cant stop it...
That was a great final ! I left frustrated when Taeja lost game 6 by not blocking the ramp at the bottom so that his tank could fire on siege mode without being picked up. I was certain he was gonna loose and i was so surprised when I saw there was a game 7 xD
I was really impressed by the zerg run but he really fell apart in the very last game.
I think this series shows that solar, an S-class but not championship-caliber zerg, goes head to head with the best of the world. Was really rooting for him after his sick sniper builds in PL (newkirk vs. Rain?)
In other words, we get a better idea of where people like Taeja who stroll over foreign scene stand against KR (don't point at Zest, his play was defunct today)
On July 20 2014 13:15 Dragoonstorm7 wrote: Im sorry to Taeja, hes been spectacular, but Solar is literally unstoppable right now. Its just... I mean, you just watch his play and his reaction after he wins. Sometimes there are those days when players (in sports or esports) just have everything going right for them. Their micro, macro and strats are all near perfect and nothing fazes them "in the zone" you could call it. Solar has that going on right now. Id be very surprised if he lost.
well theres such thing called Big Tour experience. Solar still lacks that and thats how he lost to terran Bonjwa.
On July 20 2014 15:13 yubo56 wrote: I think this series shows that solar, an S-class but not championship-caliber zerg, goes head to head with the best of the world. Was really rooting for him after his sick sniper builds in PL (newkirk vs. Rain?)
In other words, we get a better idea of where people like Taeja who stroll over foreign scene stand against KR (don't point at Zest, his play was defunct today)
ah, of course zest is not in good shape. He got terrible jetlag, very tired with his stacked tournament schedules, not accommodate the Chinese food well, and not wanting to win at all. Oh wait, its Apollo!
I think the nerves and a little bit of bad luck were the reasons why Solar could not end it 4-2 or 4-3. Very well played, respect to both of them, they showed some awesome games.
On July 20 2014 15:13 yubo56 wrote: I think this series shows that solar, an S-class but not championship-caliber zerg, goes head to head with the best of the world. Was really rooting for him after his sick sniper builds in PL (newkirk vs. Rain?)
In other words, we get a better idea of where people like Taeja who stroll over foreign scene stand against KR (don't point at Zest, his play was defunct today)
Yea... we can see that Taeja is probably the best player in the world... as without preparation even the "mighty" zest was nothing more than a snack for him... getting flustered every time things dont go as planned, and at the same time taeja cooly dealing with every dire situation perfectly and ending up on top due to his skill, control, micro and reading the game... thats preparation vs skill for you Solar much better, tough cookie... but in the end, pure skill prevailed
Solar seemed to crack mentally after coming so close to clenching the tournament in game 6 and then getting shut down. When the break ended after that game and TaeJa gave a thumbs up going into game 7, I was sure he had it.
Truth be told though, as much as I like TaeJa, Solar was the better player in the long, intense macro games.
On July 20 2014 15:33 Kitai wrote: Solar seemed to crack mentally after coming so close to clenching the tournament in game 6 and then getting shut down. When the break ended after that game and TaeJa gave a thumbs up going into game 7, I was sure he had it.
Truth be told though, as much as I like TaeJa, Solar was the better player in the long, intense macro games.
Cant really agree... i would expect zerg that was left alone whole game to roll over terran that didnt do anything in early/mid game... but he struggled because taeja did so well... hell Solar lost 100% more resources in every macro game... it was just zerg on like 5 bases effect... Solar had to make some serious mistakes and mess up his macro to lose those games... even tho every fight was in favor of Taeja in terms of resources lost... but zerg is zerg
Brilliant finals, great performance from both players.
I'm very happy for Taeja, and what a way for Solar to make his mark on the foreign scene. Sure, he didn't win, but people will be talking about this finals for a while to come, and not just because he came so close to dethroning Taeja.
Wow you have to say there is a legitimate concern that if Blizzard buff terran, just nobody will be ever be able to beat Taeja again. Actually it already seems like that.
On July 20 2014 16:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: Wow you have to say there is a legitimate concern that if Blizzard buff terran, just nobody will be ever be able to beat Taeja again. Actually it already seems like that.
On July 20 2014 16:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: Wow you have to say there is a legitimate concern that if Blizzard buff terran, just nobody will be ever be able to beat Taeja again. Actually it already seems like that.
On July 20 2014 15:33 Kitai wrote: Solar seemed to crack mentally after coming so close to clenching the tournament in game 6 and then getting shut down. When the break ended after that game and TaeJa gave a thumbs up going into game 7, I was sure he had it.
Truth be told though, as much as I like TaeJa, Solar was the better player in the long, intense macro games.
Cant really agree... i would expect zerg that was left alone whole game to roll over terran that didnt do anything in early/mid game... but he struggled because taeja did so well... hell Solar lost 100% more resources in every macro game... it was just zerg on like 5 bases effect... Solar had to make some serious mistakes and mess up his macro to lose those games... even tho every fight was in favor of Taeja in terms of resources lost... but zerg is zerg
Well, that was exactly the problem. On King Sejong Station, he spent all of his time killing units against a 5 base zerg which got him nowhere. He didn't spend much effort harrassing the southern and western zerg bases and he had several opportunities for hatchery snipes that didn't quite make the cut. If his strategy was to win in the long run by being more cost efficient with the same amount of mining, he shouldn't have given up his northeastern base so easily - a pack of 15 or so unsupported mutas killed it by themselves. His control and engagements were some of the best I'd ever seen (those baneling snipes!!), but the player who made better strategic decisions wound up with the victory.
Once again, not saying he didn't play an excellent game there, but Solar was just a bit better.
On July 20 2014 15:02 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: That was a great final ! I left frustrated when Taeja lost game 6 by not blocking the ramp at the bottom so that his tank could fire on siege mode without being picked up. I was certain he was gonna loose and i was so surprised when I saw there was a game 7 xD
I was really impressed by the zerg run but he really fell apart in the very last game.
Problem there is he couldn't scout. Solar scouts extremely well (watch all his games how he always manages to sneak a zergling in, or gets an overlord past), and knows how to vary his build according to what he sees. But when he is unable to scout (like the last game where Taeja blocked out the overlords), he has trouble fighting from an even, or behind, position.
I say 'trouble' but of course he would beat 99.99% of the planet, only trouble against top level players.
Well, that was exactly the problem. On King Sejong Station, he spent all of his time killing units against a 5 base zerg which got him nowhere. He didn't spend much effort harrassing the southern and western zerg bases and he had several opportunities for hatchery snipes that didn't quite make the cut. If his strategy was to win in the long run by being more cost efficient with the same amount of mining, he shouldn't have given up his northeastern base so easily - a pack of 15 or so unsupported mutas killed it by themselves. His control and engagements were some of the best I'd ever seen (those baneling snipes!!), but the player who made better strategic decisions wound up with the victory.
Once again, not saying he didn't play an excellent game there, but Solar was just a bit better.
Yes and no. What you said is true, except it is extremely risky to try a base snipe in TvZ, when playing bio vs. ling-bane-muta. The problem is, when splitting the army to snipe/harass, there is always a very big risk that either the front will be breached or the harass is killed without much result. Killing a single zerg's base does not give an immediate benefit but the resources risked to do that can be game-ending.
I think with both sides playing excellently in game 3, it really shows why terran needs a buff. With the splitting and microing requirement, terran army really isn't as mobile as the Zerg; switching between attacking different bases can eventually force terran into a bad engagement and one bad engagement pretty much ends it all.
On July 20 2014 16:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: Wow you have to say there is a legitimate concern that if Blizzard buff terran, just nobody will be ever be able to beat Taeja again. Actually it already seems like that.
How is that a concern?!
Not a problem, he's gonna be retiring years end.
It shouldn't be a problem anyway, I should think that one player completely dominating his competition goes a long way to legitimizing the sport!
TaeJa has long been the best SC2 player to never win a GSL. Eleven premier wins might never be matched and he's not done yet. MVP needs to come back and win a couple more. He's the only one who's close at nine of his own.
Solar is better player because playing Zerg in much more difficult. Larva injection, creep spread, melee and weak units, invariable BO and no thurtle mode. So, Solar is much better than Taeja IMO.
Being given the doubts some have about Taeja, I almost think now that they would eventually recognize him as a top terran only if he was playing for SKT, KT, or Jin Air (and that would be sad). Not even a question of GSL title or not.
Anyway, GG Taeja ! Always a good thing to see a Terran winning these days
On July 20 2014 18:44 sdnnvs wrote: Solar is better player because playing Zerg in much more difficult. Larva injection, creep spread, melee and weak units, invariable BO and no thurtle mode. So, Solar is much better than Taeja IMO.
On July 20 2014 18:44 sdnnvs wrote: Solar is better player because playing Zerg in much more difficult. Larva injection, creep spread, melee and weak units, invariable BO and no thurtle mode. So, Solar is much better than Taeja IMO.
On July 20 2014 18:44 sdnnvs wrote: Solar is better player because playing Zerg in much more difficult. Larva injection, creep spread, melee and weak units, invariable BO and no thurtle mode. So, Solar is much better than Taeja IMO.
Way too obvious buddy, keep that shit to twitch chat
Both of them made mistakes, and I feel that Taeja just made slightly fewer and was more comfortable in such a series. But damn, the overall quality of play there was insane. I haven't been so captivated by a series since, I dunno, Taeja vs Bogus last year?
He's edged out MVP, both in number of top 4 finishes and number of wins. MC has more top 4 finishes though (IEM Shenzhen and yesterday's Dreamhack aren't added yet)
On July 20 2014 19:51 DailYLeet wrote: Does any other player have more premier tournament/championship wins than taeja?
I know MC for example did earn more prize money but what about the wins?
Nope. The closest is MVP with 9.
MC has the most prize money but that comes from a lot of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th places finishes and Top 8s. He only has 6 wins although two of them are GSLs.
Maybe winning Blizzcon will reinvigorate his passion, but it seems his wrist issues are actually the main culprit. It is such a shame since StarCraftII is really developing to be an even greater game, but I thank him for the great series he is giving/will give us this year.
On July 20 2014 21:50 Makro wrote: can someone tell me how taeja manages to be so consistent over the years ? the only player that reminds me of such a consistency is MC
he is a very smart player and does two things which most Terran players do not
a) he varies his openings in almost every series. b) he is confident in his lategame and never overcommits in the midgame.
I think there are way more Terran players that do just that Mojito99. TaeJa just does it ALL. In particular I would admire his crisis management which is just stellar... What is his weakness? I sincerely can't think of anything. He doesn't do 11/11 maybe...? He barely won against Solar though, which shows just how good that kid Solar is as well.
On July 20 2014 22:09 gneGne wrote: I think there are way more Terran players that do just that Mojito99. TaeJa just does it ALL. In particular I would admire his crisis management which is just stellar... What is his weakness? I sincerely can't think of anything. He doesn't do 11/11 maybe...? He barely won against Solar though, which shows just how good that kid Solar is as well.
I really only know of 1 other Terran confident in his lategame vs Protoss. That is Happy and he is not exactly winning tournaments. Crisis management is of course another factor but its hard to make that a distinguishing factor.
Another terran with absolutely stellar control is Innovation, who, despite his shortcomings, is often referred to as the mechanically most skilled player in korea. One thing he does not do, is vary his openings. Same goes for Polt, although he does mix it up from time to time.
Terrans overall are just very predictable compared to their zerg and protoss opponents.
On July 20 2014 22:09 gneGne wrote: I think there are way more Terran players that do just that Mojito99. TaeJa just does it ALL. In particular I would admire his crisis management which is just stellar... What is his weakness? I sincerely can't think of anything. He doesn't do 11/11 maybe...? He barely won against Solar though, which shows just how good that kid Solar is as well.
I really only know of 1 other Terran confident in his lategame vs Protoss. That is Happy and he is not exactly winning tournaments. Crisis management is of course another factor but its hard to make that a distinguishing factor.
Another terran with absolutely stellar control is Innovation, who, despite his shortcomings, is often referred to as the mechanically most skilled player in korea. One thing he does not do, is vary his openings. Same goes for Polt, although he does mix it up from time to time.
Terrans overall are just very predictable compared to their zerg and protoss opponents.
Yes, but... Bomber, Maru (maybe too much 11/11 though lately lol), Bbyong, TY, Gumiho, ForGG... even MKP and FlaSh beg to differ concerning variating their openings.. I would argue Polt and Innovation are more the exception than the rule here... These two are also known for having the best late-game Terran though.
the brilliance of taeja is that he is very unique in his tempo control.
He can play extremely cautiously and strategic and then the next time dives into a fast paced aggression rally with strong timings. he is also one of the few players that still gets a viking to clear overlords and deny scouts with marines patrolling in base.
i think if players like flash or innovation with their superior mechanics could emulate taeja's Mvp-esque brilliance they could be ultimate weapons again.
it's actually kinda funny, because people once said about taeja that if he had the smarts of Mvp he would be the greatest. now look at him.
On July 20 2014 22:18 phil.ipp wrote: why should he retire?
if i would have pain when playing AND i dont win money at all -> retire
if i have pain when playing AND i win thousands of dollars with it -> go take some painkillers
And what if the game makes no fun to play? Look on "Pro Opinions", someone said that wm buff killed most fun protoss strat "zealot/templar" and force more the most boring protoss strat with many collossi.
You should notice that Blizzard like to kill interesting strategies and force more in most boring strat by all 3 races, preferably that all 3 races only use one strat until lategame.
On July 20 2014 22:18 phil.ipp wrote: why should he retire?
if i would have pain when playing AND i dont win money at all -> retire
if i have pain when playing AND i win thousands of dollars with it -> go take some painkillers
And what if the game makes no fun to play? Look on "Pro Opinions", someone said that wm buff killed most fun protoss strat "zealot/templar" and force more the most boring protoss strat with many collossi.
You should notice that Blizzard like to kill interesting strategies and force more in most boring strat by all 3 races, preferably that all 3 races only use one strat until lategame.
asking for both perfect balance and diversity does not work in an RTS
On July 20 2014 22:09 gneGne wrote: I think there are way more Terran players that do just that Mojito99. TaeJa just does it ALL. In particular I would admire his crisis management which is just stellar... What is his weakness? I sincerely can't think of anything. He doesn't do 11/11 maybe...? He barely won against Solar though, which shows just how good that kid Solar is as well.
On July 20 2014 22:18 phil.ipp wrote: why should he retire?
if i would have pain when playing AND i dont win money at all -> retire
if i have pain when playing AND i win thousands of dollars with it -> go take some painkillers
And what if the game makes no fun to play? Look on "Pro Opinions", someone said that wm buff killed most fun protoss strat "zealot/templar" and force more the most boring protoss strat with many collossi.
You should notice that Blizzard like to kill interesting strategies and force more in most boring strat by all 3 races, preferably that all 3 races only use one strat until lategame.
asking for both perfect balance and diversity does not work in an RTS
perfect balance is useless if it makes no fun <- biggest problem in sc2 imo. RTS Design of sc2 is so terrible. If the game is fun to play and balance is great/ok then balance has not a high value.
Fk i hate the people that say koreans outside of KR couldnt possibly take a game of any of the people in Code S that they couldnt possibly even get Code A that their Code B level all of them MC JD Taeja Polt Bomber etc.. annoying
On July 21 2014 00:29 Varroth wrote: Fk i hate the people that say koreans outside of KR couldnt possibly take a game of any of the people in Code S that they couldnt possibly even get Code A that their Code B level all of them MC JD Taeja Polt Bomber etc.. annoying
I agree, I really hope this silences the critics of not only TaeJa, but all the other players like that(jaedong, polt, etc.). Its getting really hard to argue that TaeJa is not the best player in the world.
I think the GSL, like all tournaments local to a specific area, of course will benefit players that live/work in the local scene, but if a truly great player wins tournaments against those very same GSL players, who the hell cares if its not on Korean soil. As long as the conditions are fair, it means nothing.
Go look at the players TaeJa has beat at this tournament and Dreamhack Bucharest last year as well for example. The best of the best, including GSL players.
On July 21 2014 00:21 Tenda wrote: When are we allowed to call taeja the fist sc2 bonjwa?
If he wins a couple of Korean tournaments. Some people will always doubt him while he doesn't have GSL or OSL pins. And I don't even know if he's the best player right now, there are other candidates. Taeja is just very visible, he goes to more tournaments than most players.
But in the end, who gives a fuck. It's pure joy to watch him play. Does it need labels? Taeja is Taeja and I feel like a kitten with its mommy when watching him.
Of course, Solar is not really the most successful player in ProLeague and he showed TaeJa a good fight. But it also works the other way around, Solar beat Maru (the player with the highest amount of wins ProLeague) in the qualifiers, and we can see why! I think this result shows that TaeJa certainly can play with the best of them, and there certainly is no mentionable skill gap between some of the players that are not competing in Korea. The competition is just deadly and I think a most players can take maps from each other.
On July 20 2014 15:33 Kitai wrote: Solar seemed to crack mentally after coming so close to clenching the tournament in game 6 and then getting shut down. When the break ended after that game and TaeJa gave a thumbs up going into game 7, I was sure he had it.
Truth be told though, as much as I like TaeJa, Solar was the better player in the long, intense macro games.
On July 21 2014 00:24 ReachTheSky wrote: Taeja is a bonjwa. I'm fairly certain he has won the most premier events out of any player. Liquid fighting!!!
And like 9 in the last year? That is as good as we are going to see with the way SC2 works. As far as I'm concerned, Teaja is an absolute legend.
nobody can be a bonjiwa. it means wins tournaments >80% of the year and pure dominant at playing. So far we have seen in sc2, Mvp 2011 is closer to bonjiwa than taeja's best year. I am not sure about Nestea. These 3 are in top3 if we talk a potential bonjiwa.
Taeja has won 8 primier tournaments in HotS, the second most primier winning player in HotS is Polt with 3 titles. Taeja is an absolute legend and it's sad if we only realize this, when he's already gone. No player comes close and all this with the supposedly "weak race."
Solar played so well this tournament, really impressed by him.
Taeja played amazingly well at the start of the finals but his micro started to slip a tiny bit as the series went on. Hope his wrists aren't messing with him too much, because he is the best in the world when he's playing at the top of his game.
He should probably take a break from SC2 though, let his wrist heal up (I heard it takes like 6 months at least to fully heal). But he is supposed to do his military service soon or something?
On July 21 2014 02:07 Eliv wrote: He should probably take a break from SC2 though, let his wrist heal up (I heard it takes like 6 months at least to fully heal). But he is supposed to do his military service soon or something?
He's doing military service at the end of the year, so this is the last year for Taeja as a programmer. He wants to study and become a social sciences teacher afterward.
We need someone like Boxer to claim Taeja as a bonjwa. It's been long overdue and I think Boxer is the only one who can pull it off. Taeja and boxer were on the same team and I think the community would rally around Boxer's decision.
this IEM kinda passed away so quietly, never noticed neither a stream nor a post about it. and boom, the finals are over + we get the spoiler which makes rewatching unwaanted.. hm..
On July 21 2014 02:17 ptbl wrote: We need someone like Boxer to claim Taeja as a bonjwa. It's been long overdue and I think Boxer is the only one who can pull it off. Taeja and boxer were on the same team and I think the community would rally around Boxer's decision.
There isn't a single player out there that deserves the Bonjwa title as far as I know.
If we define Bonjwa as a player who is a good head and shoulders above everyone else, alone.
On July 21 2014 00:21 Tenda wrote: When are we allowed to call taeja the fist sc2 bonjwa?
If he wins a couple of Korean tournaments. Some people will always doubt him while he doesn't have GSL or OSL pins. And I don't even know if he's the best player right now, there are other candidates.
On July 21 2014 02:17 ptbl wrote: We need someone like Boxer to claim Taeja as a bonjwa. It's been long overdue and I think Boxer is the only one who can pull it off. Taeja and boxer were on the same team and I think the community would rally around Boxer's decision.
A true bonjwa demonstrates it by winning. He doesn't need the title assigned to him.
On July 21 2014 02:01 blacksheepwall wrote: Solar played so well this tournament, really impressed by him.
Taeja played amazingly well at the start of the finals but his micro started to slip a tiny bit as the series went on. Hope his wrists aren't messing with him too much, because he is the best in the world when he's playing at the top of his game.
I am not sure how much better you can micro when you are trading 1:2 in cost vs. an opponent.
On July 21 2014 02:17 ptbl wrote: We need someone like Boxer to claim Taeja as a bonjwa. It's been long overdue and I think Boxer is the only one who can pull it off. Taeja and boxer were on the same team and I think the community would rally around Boxer's decision.
There isn't a single player out there that deserves the Bonjwa title as far as I know.
If we define Bonjwa as a player who is a good head and shoulders above everyone else, alone.
On July 21 2014 02:17 ptbl wrote: We need someone like Boxer to claim Taeja as a bonjwa. It's been long overdue and I think Boxer is the only one who can pull it off. Taeja and boxer were on the same team and I think the community would rally around Boxer's decision.
A true bonjwa demonstrates it by winning. He doesn't need the title assigned to him.
According to Liquipedia: Bonjwa is a term used to describe a player who dominates the StarCraft scene for a long period of time. A bonjwa has a very high winning percentage and successive title wins. However, a bonjwa is not defined by his statistics or records. Rather, a general consensus is reached that he is the most dominant progamer of his era. ... Taeja has won 8 premier tournaments in the HotS era. The next person to win as many is Polt at 3.
On July 21 2014 02:17 ptbl wrote: We need someone like Boxer to claim Taeja as a bonjwa. It's been long overdue and I think Boxer is the only one who can pull it off. Taeja and boxer were on the same team and I think the community would rally around Boxer's decision.
There isn't a single player out there that deserves the Bonjwa title as far as I know.
If we define Bonjwa as a player who is a good head and shoulders above everyone else, alone.
Mvp was definitly the king of wings.
He would have dominated wings much harder if it wasn't for his wrist/ the broodlord infestor debacle.
I stayed up all night and morning to watch it all live. I fell asleep during game 4 and woke up when it was 2-2, was completely awake when Taeja was down 3-2 and just watched it until it went 4-3. It was truly an epic final. I am so happy Taeja won.. but at the same time, he's the ONLY terran that can win lol. He's not human :D
On July 21 2014 04:21 OminouS wrote: Taeja is so consistant it's scary. Bonjwa is hard to call with so many tournaments around be he is probably the closest to a SC2 one we ever had.
On July 21 2014 00:21 Tenda wrote: When are we allowed to call taeja the fist sc2 bonjwa?
If he wins a couple of Korean tournaments. Some people will always doubt him while he doesn't have GSL or OSL pins. And I don't even know if he's the best player right now, there are other candidates.
Soo, soulkey, herO, maru are at least on his level based on the games I have seen. Zest played way below his level for some reason ( really bad decisions that you cannot really explain) but in general would say he is up there aswell. Not sure why you bring up jd and inno as of now. They are not as good as taeja and those I listed although Inno reached scary peaks of dominance and jaedong as moments of perfect play here and there but nothing consistent.
Look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/357124-statistical-bonjwa-theory-the-history-of-bw I dont have stats for Mvp but i'm pretty sure his latter 2011-2012 run can rival most of those except for Flash. As for Taeja he is consistent as hell, but he never had the entire scene under his shadow like Mvp. Bonjwa is not about consistency, its about pure domination.
On July 21 2014 05:14 Morbidius wrote: Look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/357124-statistical-bonjwa-theory-the-history-of-bw I dont have stats for Mvp but i'm pretty sure his latter 2011-2012 run can rival most of those except for Flash. As for Taeja he is consistent as hell, but he never had the entire scene under his shadow like Mvp. Bonjwa is not about consistency, its about pure domination.
Would be interesting to see such statistics, but in SC2.
On July 21 2014 05:14 Morbidius wrote: Look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/357124-statistical-bonjwa-theory-the-history-of-bw I dont have stats for Mvp but i'm pretty sure his latter 2011-2012 run can rival most of those except for Flash. As for Taeja he is consistent as hell, but he never had the entire scene under his shadow like Mvp. Bonjwa is not about consistency, its about pure domination.
Would be interesting to see such statistics, but in SC2.
On July 20 2014 22:18 phil.ipp wrote: why should he retire?
if i would have pain when playing AND i dont win money at all -> retire
if i have pain when playing AND i win thousands of dollars with it -> go take some painkillers
he said in an IEM interview that he is gonna do his military service at the end of the year
Hard to imagine Taeja in the military. How is he going to do pushups and lift heavy objects when typing at a computer is a challenge for him?
With this tournament win, Taeja has finally overtaken friend/rival HerO as the highest earning Liquid player. It seems a long time ago that HerO was the undisputed #1 on Liquid, with vastly higher tournament winnings and dominating Taeja whenever they met (invariably in finals.)
Taeja "just" needs to win a couple more 10K tournaments (and change) to push him to the 5th highest earning player of all time (also assuming the goalposts don't move.) I make that sound so trivial but Taeja seems to take these tournaments as free money at this point, like passing Go on a monopoly board.
Awesome stacked tourney~~ Shame Zest, Inno, and Life did not perform to their reg standards, but Taeja and Solar made up for that...Super series. SC2 ROX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...what is the next big tourney???? I am HOOKED!!!!
TaeJa is definitely the best player in the Hots era.
But he hasn't done enough to be considered better all-time than the WoL greats of MVP, MC and Nestea yet. All those guys won multiple GSLs. MVP alone had four.
MVP is the best player SC2 has seen and the closest thing to a bonjwa but TaeJa is the best Hots player imo.
On July 21 2014 00:21 Tenda wrote: When are we allowed to call taeja the fist sc2 bonjwa?
If he wins a couple of Korean tournaments. Some people will always doubt him while he doesn't have GSL or OSL pins. And I don't even know if he's the best player right now, there are other candidates.
Soo, soulkey, herO, maru are at least on his level based on the games I have seen. Zest played way below his level for some reason ( really bad decisions that you cannot really explain) but in general would say he is up there aswell. Not sure why you bring up jd and inno as of now. They are not as good as taeja and those I listed although Inno reached scary peaks of dominance and jaedong as moments of perfect play here and there but nothing consistent.
soulkey wasn't convincing in months. hero burnt his 3 month stride. maru and soo i will agree with though.
On July 21 2014 08:45 Radicalness wrote: TaeJa is definitely the best player in the Hots era.
But he hasn't done enough to be considered better all-time than the WoL greats of MVP, MC and Nestea yet. All those guys won multiple GSLs. MVP alone had four.
MVP is the best player SC2 has seen and the closest thing to a bonjwa but TaeJa is the best Hots player imo.
MC is especially impressive in terms of consistency. He picks up so many 2-4th place finishes even when he doesn't win.
Gratz to him, this win is much more convincing than HSC or Dreamhack summer, Zest and Solar are really worthy opponents, no matter if Zest is in good shape or not 3-0 is just huge...
On July 21 2014 08:45 Radicalness wrote: TaeJa is definitely the best player in the Hots era.
But he hasn't done enough to be considered better all-time than the WoL greats of MVP, MC and Nestea yet. All those guys won multiple GSLs. MVP alone had four.
MVP is the best player SC2 has seen and the closest thing to a bonjwa but TaeJa is the best Hots player imo.
Its a little unfair to use that comparison though because there was a GSL every month at that point and now there is one every 3 months.
"(T)TaeJa was able to continue his recent strong performances against (Z)Jaedong with his third victory over Jaedong this year, keeping Jaedong to winning just one map"
On July 21 2014 08:45 Radicalness wrote: TaeJa is definitely the best player in the Hots era.
But he hasn't done enough to be considered better all-time than the WoL greats of MVP, MC and Nestea yet. All those guys won multiple GSLs. MVP alone had four.
MVP is the best player SC2 has seen and the closest thing to a bonjwa but TaeJa is the best Hots player imo.
Its a little unfair to use that comparison though because there was a GSL every month at that point and now there is one every 3 months.
On July 20 2014 22:09 gneGne wrote: I think there are way more Terran players that do just that Mojito99. TaeJa just does it ALL. In particular I would admire his crisis management which is just stellar... What is his weakness? I sincerely can't think of anything. He doesn't do 11/11 maybe...? He barely won against Solar though, which shows just how good that kid Solar is as well.
I really only know of 1 other Terran confident in his lategame vs Protoss. That is Happy and he is not exactly winning tournaments. Crisis management is of course another factor but its hard to make that a distinguishing factor.
Another terran with absolutely stellar control is Innovation, who, despite his shortcomings, is often referred to as the mechanically most skilled player in korea. One thing he does not do, is vary his openings. Same goes for Polt, although he does mix it up from time to time.
Terrans overall are just very predictable compared to their zerg and protoss opponents.
I was rewatching the replays of IEM. Taeja essentially hard countered Zest who is known to be a macro toss.
If you watch his openings, all of the were incredibly greedy and would most likely die to any protoss not going robo colossus.
nimbus he went cc first into a 1-1-1 merry go round he went 14 gas without bunker or reaper deadwing he went gas first only to get the factory and then pull out of gas.
the one and only reason terran hasn't been buffed any further yet..
considering the problems everyone else has to be successeful with this race (completely forget foreigners or kespa players, even the oldschool gsl players get dumped all day erryday)
its just crazy how much of a good player he must be
only imagine if he would be switching to another race. gg starcraft..
On July 21 2014 08:45 Radicalness wrote: TaeJa is definitely the best player in the Hots era.
But he hasn't done enough to be considered better all-time than the WoL greats of MVP, MC and Nestea yet. All those guys won multiple GSLs. MVP alone had four.
MVP is the best player SC2 has seen and the closest thing to a bonjwa but TaeJa is the best Hots player imo.
Its a little unfair to use that comparison though because there was a GSL every month at that point and now there is one every 3 months.
Mvp still gets the credit because of GSL Prestige. Plus there wasn't quite that many GSL's back then. Unless Taeja wins some big ones, Mvp is still the greatest of all time
On July 21 2014 08:45 Radicalness wrote: TaeJa is definitely the best player in the Hots era.
But he hasn't done enough to be considered better all-time than the WoL greats of MVP, MC and Nestea yet. All those guys won multiple GSLs. MVP alone had four.
MVP is the best player SC2 has seen and the closest thing to a bonjwa but TaeJa is the best Hots player imo.
Its a little unfair to use that comparison though because there was a GSL every month at that point and now there is one every 3 months.
Mvp still gets the credit because of GSL Prestige. Plus there wasn't quite that many GSL's back then. Unless Taeja wins some big ones, Mvp is still the greatest of all time
TEH KING OF WINGS!! Mvp is a bloody hero and I miss seeing him play
Saying that, Taeja is the Mvp of our time. His titles, of which there are many, may not GSLs but he has played and won lots of impressive games/series (this finals included) in the last few years. I'd have picked him to represent s.Korea over Bomber!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Meru/2014/IEM/IEMShenzhen_winner.jpg)
TaeJa was able to continue his recent strong performances against 
Jaedong with his third victory over Jaedong this year, keeping Jaedong to winning just one map. The series was marked by each player being content to play very standard TvZ with small early skirmishes and building up to big macro games. Taeja's superb widow mine control gained him the advantage and eventual victory in the first game, while Jaedong struck back in game two by shutting down Taeja's medivacs giving him a large advantage. Taeja was resilient and survived for other 15 minutes with at least a 50 supply deficit, but Jaedong's hive tech eventually over ran him. 
Jim being the home town hero, ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/iembracket5.png)
