EPTWould be gutted though if you kept getting your weakest race and someone keeps getting their main.
What if everyone had to play random? - Page 2
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
Would be gutted though if you kept getting your weakest race and someone keeps getting their main. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Playing random is fun, you can use all the imba bullshit of the raced and notice it is not that imba at all :D Also, I purchased 9 matchups, why only play 3 "because Day9 told me that makes me improve faster"? I don't give a fuck, I game for fun, not for improvement. I'll never be a Maru, Zest or SoO regardless. Random all the way! | ||
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Big-t
Austria1351 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
 I do feel that replies so far are a bit rose-tinted though. let me raise some concerns: - If people would be allowed to pick different races on the three maps, we would see a lot of mirrors, as some maps are better for some races. - We would very likely still get balance whine. "lolol, [non-P player] just beat [insert P player] as toss! Finally proof that toss is easiest race, lolol", etc. - People would lose their character a lot (at least for me) if they don't have a main race. Now I can cheer for my zerg heros, and I can feel that we have something in common. People could no longer introduce themselves as "I'm [nickname] and I play Terran!!", it'd just be "I'm [nickname]. And, umm... I play sc2?". - While on average you would get the "best sc2 player", you would also get player X winning by luck (if you go by the random race solution to avoid mirrors) because he randomed into his main race 3/5 games in the final bo5, while his opponent only got 1. - People just would not be as good if they train all three races. Imagine the skill we would never see materialise because none of the full time players would focus on just one race. Nonetheless, I like the general idea, and I'd watch the tournament. At least the first one. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
I do like the idea of random on random. It is fair. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27228 Posts
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Waise
3165 Posts
On July 03 2014 18:40 Wombat_NI wrote: I don't have enough time to get one race down competently, I would probably roll random otherwise though speaking of which it's arguable that if everyone had to learn every race the overall level of play would dip. the current pros spend hours practicing a single race every day, and there's still an infinite skill ceiling the best in the world will never reach. if they were practicing 3 races and 9 matches, we might see less impressive technical play | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
- We would very likely still get balance whine. "lolol, [non-P player] just beat [insert P player] as toss! Finally proof that toss is easiest race, lolol", etc. You'll get balance whine in any tournament, so that wouldn't really change a thing. | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/450395-the-future-of-rts-games?page=59#1178 The issue is that since the players are already super-specialized on one race, you would run into problems now if you choose the races randomly: Let's say, MC picks Zerg and Taeja picks Terrain. Obviously, Taeja would roflstomp MC and the match wouldn't be very interesting to watch. Therefore, the first game would have to be fixed to the best race for existing pro players. i.e. for Game 1 MC always Protoss, Taeja always Terran After that they can choose. New players would be able to choose in game 1 already. I don't have enough time to get one race down competently, I would probably roll random otherwise though That is not a problem, since when everyone starts playing random, the general skill level will decrease.A positive side effect is that you can artificially higher the skill ceiling for the pros. - If people would be allowed to pick different races on the three maps, we would see a lot of mirrors, as some maps are better for some races. As mentioned by Orcas, you can solve this by settings the maps in advance and having players choose their race before the matchup starts.- We would very likely still get balance whine. "lolol, [non-P player] just beat [insert P player] as toss! Finally proof that toss is easiest race, lolol", etc. The balance whine would be of the same character as the one in chess, i.e. it doesn't really matter since you play all races and can only blame yourself (also, there will always be whiners).- People would lose their character a lot (at least for me) if they don't have a main race. Now I can cheer for my zerg heros, and I can feel that we have something in common. People could no longer introduce themselves as "I'm [nickname] and I play Terran!!", it'd just be "I'm [nickname]. And, umm... I play sc2?". This might be an issue. Still people can identify themselves via their playing style. - While on average you would get the "best sc2 player", you would also get player X winning by luck (if you go by the random race solution to avoid mirrors) because he randomed into his main race 3/5 games in the final bo5, while his opponent only got 1. As mentioned, the races have to be listed before the matchup starts. In a bo5 it makes sense to list your stronger races at the start.- People just would not be as good if they train all three races. Imagine the skill we would never see materialise because none of the full time players would focus on just one race. That is actually a good thing because the skill ceiling is already reached at the pro level, which makes the current game stagnant. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Waise
3165 Posts
On July 03 2014 18:55 urboss wrote:That is actually a good thing because the skill ceiling is already reached at the pro level, which makes the current game stagnant. the skill ceiling will never be reached... just because they know the meta and know how to do builds perfectly that doesn't mean their play is perfect. no one can have perfect reaction times or infinitely fast fingers | ||
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TmzZ666
Poland144 Posts
On July 03 2014 19:04 Big J wrote: Why would you force somebody to play something that he does not want to play? good point, maybe a random ladder idea would do for now? if you dont like it, dont play it. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Waise
3165 Posts
On July 03 2014 19:36 SatedSC2 wrote: If I had to play Random, I wouldn't play the game. Simple as that :S Nor would I watch it, to be honest. The overall skill level would drop and people who I like to watch specifically because of their playstyle with a given race wouldn't be guaranteed of rolling the race they're good with. It would be awful. plus just the personality aspect. since BW, people have race picked based on their personal styles and preferences and aesthetics, and the lore of the game and how the races function has been loosely & playfully associated with players and their personalities, which really adds a lot to what the game is. SC wouldn't be nearly as fun to spectate participate in if it were just command and conquer tank warz and the races didn't carry certain connotations | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
The problem is that some of the best games come from people trying to counter each others builds based on research. If you have a random tournament you can't expect the players to have enough information on each other. It would be like watching ladder games but far more random. Would be fun to see an all random tournament though. There could be a set of players that noone really knows who do really well. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On July 03 2014 20:13 MrTortoise wrote: I don't think the problem is with expecting someone to learn all 9 matchups. I think most are probably fairly familiar with them because you need to know what your opponent is doing - even if their execution isn't as pristine. But its not like every protoss has to play like he thinks hes playing terran (Hero). The problem is that some of the best games come from people trying to counter each others builds based on research. If you have a random tournament you can't expect the players to have enough information on each other. It would be like watching ladder games but far more random. Would be fun to see an all random tournament though. There could be a set of players that noone really knows who do really well. valid points. players also have to worry about brand, at least the more popular ones. Taeja, Flash, Inno, Bomber etc are firmly connected to Terran, Life, Jaedong, DRG to Zerg etc. all that would be lost if everybody played Random. but yeah, a random tournament here and there would be awesome. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46240 Posts
it could definitely be more fair in the sense that people's livelihoods would not be ruined by the whims of Blizzard. I understand there would be a lot of luck involved in terms of what exact matchup you get on what map, but if everyone started out by being generalists, we would not have the same inclinations to shout 'imba' or 'nerf' at everything If one race was overpowered, that race would still be overpowered. Same with underpowered. I don't know why you think making people play races we dislike would change that. Not only would the game not change balance-wise, but on top of that you'll now have people frustrated with the fact they can only play their favorite race ~1/3 of the time, and randomly. Sounds like the opposite of a good idea, especially since current players can always switch races and practice them if they want. | ||
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