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On July 02 2014 07:58 ROOTiaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 07:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:On July 02 2014 07:40 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 02 2014 07:28 NoGasfOu wrote:
Nothing David Kim does will satisfy the community. They approve and are happy with every single balance change at the beginning according the the polls. After a few months, they will whine again before David Kim and his team have a chance to work on new balance. The cycle then starts all over again. It will never stop. I'd like to think people who are content about current balance tend not to talk about it very much, you can assume that anyone who just likes watching and talking about the game automatically approves about the current balance situation until they say otherwise. Complaints tend to ring louder then contented approval. Sounds nice, but there are also those who just stop watching and playing without ever going through the motions of complaining. So i guess you have to look at the numbers of viewers (growth/ decline) together with the "loud" feedback. I think when evolution of strategy declines so does viewership. People dislike seeing the same games played out over and over. Starcraft 2 had it's first big viewership hit late 2012 when this happened, when most tournaments were about fungal growths and broodlords making everything look fucking miserable and stupid (same with the Protoss sentry immortal or sentry colossus pushes). And this isn't really a balance concern in the sense that one or two races are winning too much, more in the sense that as a matchup develops the pool of available viable strategies tends to narrow and something new needs to be introduced, be it a neat new development in the matchup or a patch.
Couldn't agree more and nicely put.
Although as far as i'm concerned, this is a problem generated by the lack of visible skill options available to the players. I still watch BW VODS even if i know it will always be mech TvP, there is so much to see in unit control and positioning and tactics that the games are always fun. That's why i think SC2 needs and overhaul with the next exp., to bring much more micro potential, longer fights, tactics, etc so that the game doesn't depend so much on "what cheese or all in will we see now?" for excitement. But i digress.
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Bisutopia19396 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:03 WhaleOFaTale wrote:
Why not just nerf the muta regen which was one of the worst changes they made in the transition to HOTS…..they want to make them so they can be more active but they completely made tanks non viable in tvz….hell they made tvz hard as hell for terran in general.
The mutas regent issue as far as leadership is big to me. Mutas are so boring compared to brood war mutas. Seeing them in sc2 is still exciting except now we are conditioned to think oh is this a base trade mutas game or a stomp the opponent with mutas game. There isn't much skill to bringing them out of battle to heal. Mechanic like the viper sucking health from buildings is on the other hand pretty cool.
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Terran needs better mech. The biggest problem with it is how slowly it builds up. Zerg has unique production ability and protoss doesn't rely on non-warpgate production facilities too much. I suggest decrease the production time of tanks and thors.
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Widow Mines are another on my list of units that should be cheaper, cost less supply and have fewer hit points.
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These are just too little too late. Why do they think constantly tweaking the widow mine is going to help anythin? Leave the damn thing alone already, or make it do something useful, like have cyclable priority targeting so all your shit doesn't get friendly fired to death by 16 zerglings running on top of your marines.
The medivac idea is better, but they should "balance" the idea they have by making it a tech lab starports upgrade and replace that stupid ass energy upgrade NOBODY USES! Or make it an upgrade that allows medivac to heal while moving. Make that upgrade require an armory to be researchable though.
While we're at it, remove timewarp, halve nexus cannon duration and decrease it's range by 2. BAM, game balanced!
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I would like to see a buff for Vikings, have them transform faster, so you could use them for worker harass, and micro against ground only forces. So the whole transform thing for them could have some usefulness, instead of just being a gimmick when you run out of air targets.
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So long as they don't address the core issue that in PvT, protoss pay absolutely no price for pulling out any of their 100 versions of bullshit and are invincible to counters, that matchup will remain broken. Add the oracle which is nearly impossible to NOT be cost effective (you literally need to run it blindly into a turret or it will be effective), that will stay broken. Mines and Medivac buff all you want, it won't change that at all.
I truly have a hard time believing that a professional balance team can't figure out this very simple RTS mechanic failure.
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On July 02 2014 08:08 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 07:28 NoGasfOu wrote:
Nothing David Kim does will satisfy the community. They approve and are happy with every single balance change at the beginning according the the polls. After a few months, they will whine again before David Kim and his team have a chance to work on new balance. The cycle then starts all over again. It will never stop. Well these suggestions really are bad. The medivac has already been given boosters and been tweaked since WoL. The widow mines have had their share of touching too. I think people would like to see changes on the raven and ghost that make them very usefully to have on the battlefield. It's been 4 years and the raven should feel like it is as cool as the science vessel but I rarely see it in mid to late game terran. Make the raven an integral unit and viewers will be rewarded.
The raven has solid potential in late late late game tvz/t. It's just really fucking hard to get there and once you do games are often dragged out and boring since it involves the terran turtling for about 30+ minutes and then the opponent being slowly bled for another 30+.
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For TvZ, I think they should nerf the muta regen. If nerfing muta regen affects too many match ups, then they should consider buffing thor's splash radius as it is mainly used against mutas anyway. I seriously do not understand why thor has such a small splash radius in the first place.....
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Late game build speed for Terran is what we need. Protoss can instantly warp in units after a big battle and chrono, Zerg has 3-10 hatcheries with queens for that as well. Terran is stuck producing from his mediocre barracks and factory count. Reactors are weak, marines hellions and vikings are the only units available(good units in certain situations).
I vote that Terran gets a reactor upgrade, an ability to combine a tech lab and reactor together. It could even be 200/25-50 or whatever.
Terran late game macro is weak. What's the build time for a barracks and an add-on?
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Why why why why does Blizzard REFUSE to revert nerfs??? Increase the splash radius???? For what? So you hurt more units that are just going to regen for free?? If the mine doesnt kill the ling/bane it might as well not do anything to them - all these late game engagements end in mass baneling rolling over the bio that is left over - hurt lings and banes are just going to regen.. Revert the nerf you made for no reason when the game was balanced - even if it means admitting you were wrong.. if it makes you feel better start with just going 60-70% back to where it was in DMG not in radius rofl. And how about some thought process behind what you are doing? Why just vague generalized statements - how about some "we reviewed X number of games between X and Y players - observed Z and as such feel that doing A/B/C will improve the balance?? Why is it so hard to get that out of the balance team?
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On July 02 2014 05:16 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 04:31 Ctone23 wrote:On July 02 2014 04:17 Waise wrote:On July 02 2014 04:16 Ctone23 wrote:On July 02 2014 04:13 Waise wrote:On July 02 2014 04:06 Aquila- wrote:
WHY always bio buffs? What about making fucking mech viable after 4 years already? And what about fixing the BROKEN stuff first, like overcharge and all the Protoss cheeses, instead of buffing things that are already good. Make bad things viable for Terran... mech is godawful to watch in sc2, it's just like protoss deathballs and swarm host turtles, which are one of the biggest things people complain about design wise... don't understand why anyone wants mech stronger mech would introduce severe concerns about raven/viking balance and mass turret/PF turtling. as it stands now, macro mech is vulnerable but in an acceptable state They just need to sack up and make a test map that buffs mech. All Zerg and Protoss are so terrified of Terran mech being viable, because of what you say, the turtle style. Well, give us a test map and let's find out! It's idiotic to just assume things will be broken, I wish blizzard wasn't so scared to at least try. it's not an assumption, it's an inference based on playing and watching the game and understanding how certain things work. you are aware that mech is currently played in proleague and we have seen mass raven/viking there? if it were any easier to get to that composition then tvz mech would be imba, that's not zerg tears it's just accurate commentary Yes I'm aware, are you aware proleague uses different maps? Inferring an unknown change wouldn't work, again, seems really silly to me. the mass raven/viking game i'm thinking of where zerg got annihilated was bbyong vs ? on frost  and yes, i'm aware outboxer is a strong mech map. not sure what your point is. you're also making things up - i never said "changes wouldn't work" i said "buffing mech would cause serious concerns for raven/viking/pf/turret". it's not a leap of logic to say that, because that comp is already incredibly strong when it happens; it's just that in proper meta the way to counter it is by not letting it happen. mech being "viable" (more viable is what you should say, as it's absolutely viable tvz at all levels) will invariably result in terran having an easier time getting up to mass raven/viking/pf/turret. and i know people throw broodlord/infestor around like a joke, but if terran were able to stably transition into that composition i personally think it would be as bad as bl/infestor. it can't really be exaggerated how strong that endgame army is. setting all of that aside, you're not addressing the main point i was actually making, which is that sc2 mech is stupid, boring and shit design
That's your opinion, and you're really beginning to mince words. Agree to disagree.
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Let hellion be able to shoot while moving like a phenix and then you get all matchup fixed
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Bring back the Warhound! Make it build with the Armory!
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Germany10114 Posts
stay away from the Medivac Blizzard, I don't want TvT be ruined more. You say people got better, then revert the Tank damage nerf, people can actually deal with that now rather easily. *grumbls*
Ignore that rant if you consider making Medivacs pick up sieged tanks.
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On July 02 2014 08:38 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Let hellion be able to shoot while moving like a phenix and then you get all matchup fixed
What good would that do? Its weapon is forward facing and locked. Meaning it has to charge head on into whatever it wants to attack. Kinda the way it is now
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Germany10114 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:47 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 08:38 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Let hellion be able to shoot while moving like a phenix and then you get all matchup fixed What good would that do? Its weapon is forward facing and locked. Meaning it has to charge head on into whatever it wants to attack. Kinda the way it is now
no it rotates its turret usually if its in range.
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On July 02 2014 08:38 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Let hellion be able to shoot while moving like a phenix and then you get all matchup fixed
Ahahahahaha oh if only.
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No more buff to medivac please.
The problem with core stems from more difficult to do damage with the better vision and tvz is heavy muta style.
Buff bio mech, buff thor anti air maybe, it's fine to have reaper hellion banshee pressure and zerg push back and gains their map control with muta ling baneling. Terran should have a stronger bio mech and pushes out again and force zerg to get tier 3 units earlier.
Remove the PO causing nexus to have high attack priority.
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EPT
