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On July 02 2014 06:51 Superbanana wrote:
"Medivac harass has been getting weaker since the beginning of HotS due to players improving at defending against them."
This is not how things should be balanced, buff what is weak, not what the players are able to adapt to.
exactly lol. The reasoning they give for their changes are always hilarious.
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On July 02 2014 09:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 09:57 GinDo wrote:On July 02 2014 09:54 polpot wrote:
Bring back the warhound! I'm very disapointed how they gave up on the warhound. It was a decent concept, the only issue was that it was ugly as hell and super imbalanced Blizzard DID NOT try to balance it. Blizzard DID NOT try to change its appearance They simply gave up on it, and gave up on Mech. Come on Blizzard Buff Mech. What was decent in concept about the Warhound?
A mini, more useful thor. A hearken back to the goliath.
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Please just buff siege tank against P instead?
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Give Siege Tanks 35 (60 vs Armored, 70 vs Massive) damage and give Thors an increased damage output and we can finally call Terran viable again.
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On July 02 2014 07:28 NoGasfOu wrote:
Nothing David Kim does will satisfy the community. They approve and are happy with every single balance change at the beginning according the the polls. After a few months, they will whine again before David Kim and his team have a chance to work on new balance. The cycle then starts all over again. It will never stop.
I really ink when the code S round of 8 has one Terran, something is wrong.
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it's good that blizzard wants to help Terran at the higher levels of play.... but why is it always... a number... that's the buff... how bout an upgrade.... a new unit.... how bout changing the immortal or colossus... how bout anything other than just changing numbers around
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Assuming Blizzard refuses to change any other units these are the patch notes I'd like to see:
Widow Mine:
Splash changed to:
0-1.50 range: 40 damage (+40 vs shields)
1.50-1.75 range: 20 damage (+20 vs shields)
1.75-2.00 range: 10 damage (+10 vs shields)
Unrealistic Medivac Change:
New Ability: Reactor Overcharge. No research required.
100 energy: Increases healing rate of medivacs from 9 to 15 health per second for 15 seconds.
Reasoning: Gives a way to either not die to feedback, or give an extra healing boost in a battle. Energy inefficient to the extreme, but possibly game-changing.
Realistic Medivac Change:
Biological units can now be unloaded in 0.5 seconds. Mechanical units still need 1 second to unload.
I wouldn't like to see both medivac changes though.
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On July 02 2014 10:04 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 09:36 Nebuchad wrote:
I am very glad that they're proposing terran buffs instead of other races nerfs, cause that is the SANE thing to do (not directed at anyone in particular but I've read enough stuff).
That being said, I agree that these aren't the right changes. If we continue with the same notion of being sane, the right thing to do would be to buff the terran units that we see close to never. Thors? In PvT? Not seen since like 2011. I know they are used in TvZ vs mutas, but that's surely not all they are intended to be useful for. BCs? Again, can't say I've seen a ton of those recently. Well, pros play to their strengths. If you buff the Ghost in TvZ, it still probably won't be used because it's not something that can easily be fit into the normal Terran composition. The Hellbat worked because Hellions are already usable in the early-game and making an Armory is something that often happens against Zergs anyway, either to make Thors or to research Drilling Claws. The only way I can think to buff, say, the BC is to give it either an ability or an upgrade that gives its normal lasers the Glave Bounce. And even then, that'd only possibly be for VERY late game. (But then, I'm also terrible at designing anything, theoretical or otherwise.) This is the challenge with Terran. They're so centric on this core that will always be the backbone of their composition, you can't really buff or nerf those units because it would completely upend balance. So they have to sort of deal with the extremities, the outer units that support the core, and those differences can only work in a certain way. And, of course, the balance is always rotating around the active ladder map pool.
But that's not really an argument. Every race uses the infrastructure and compositions that work the best, to the best of their knowledge. If you create strength in other areas, people are going to adapt their build to take this strength into account. They won't do it at first, sure, because it's a process. If they never do it, that just means you haven't created the strength you thought you would (like with the tank buff to compensate widow mines).
If the ghost was strong in TvZ, of course ghosts would be made, because the best TvZ builds would be those that benefit from the advantage of having ghosts. Case in point: when ghosts were good vs broodlords.
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I think people should relax and see where DK is going with this.
Afaik, Terran drops are what helps them carry the momentum of the game (and ZvT is a back-and-forward type of MU especially during the WoL times). Plus, Zerg has mutalisks, which is by far one of the best harassment units and can be part of the core army too (thanks to its regen). Protoss has Warp Prism to help them out! Terran's only harassment option, Medivac, is now getting countered easily by Blink Stalkers/MSC and Mutalisks. A small buff such as as an boost duration increase would definitely help the Terrans continue the momentum-based play, similar to how Polt's and Maru's style. Medivac, if buffed correctly, can give Terran so many options (maybe it might even help transport mechanic units to better positions, because Medivacs can be used on Hellbats). However, unloading speed change might be a bit much, but it would be nice, if Medivac have some sort of late game upgrade involving the Caduceus Reactor.
When people are calling for mech buffs, I think people are asking for too much. DK has buffed tanks and mech like a lot of times (seriously, look it up!) The reason why tanks aren't as viable is not because of the tank's but the counters against it.
However, I really hope DK is looking for ways to improve late-game Terran, because that is the biggest problem. I think one start is to revert the Ghost EMP radius nerf, because Ghosts are exclusive for TvP anyway. 
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On July 02 2014 07:28 NoGasfOu wrote:
Nothing David Kim does will satisfy the community. They approve and are happy with every single balance change at the beginning according the the polls. After a few months, they will whine again before David Kim and his team have a chance to work on new balance. The cycle then starts all over again. It will never stop.
At least so far, according to the poll, more people are unhappy about the proposed Medivac nerf than are happy about it. Gives me some hope for the community, but rarely do those polls have an effect on Blizzard's decision making.
If I remember correctly, I believe the community was also unhappy about the proposed speed boost to Oracles, yet that went through anyway.
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Canada16 Posts
do they not realize that the MSC is the sole reason why terran cant compete with protoss?....do they even watch this game?
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On July 02 2014 10:17 KingofGods wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 09:59 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On July 02 2014 09:57 GinDo wrote:On July 02 2014 09:54 polpot wrote:
Bring back the warhound! I'm very disapointed how they gave up on the warhound. It was a decent concept, the only issue was that it was ugly as hell and super imbalanced Blizzard DID NOT try to balance it. Blizzard DID NOT try to change its appearance They simply gave up on it, and gave up on Mech. Come on Blizzard Buff Mech. What was decent in concept about the Warhound? A mini, more useful thor. A hearken back to the goliath.
The original concept of the warhound was to give mech a stronger ground vs ground unit that could be massed and a-moved about easily, replacing the Siege tank. They added in a weird anti mechanical missile ability too for some reason. It only hearkens back to the goliath because it kinda resembles one. In function the Thor is much closer to the goliath then the Warhound ever was (at least in beta)
The reason it was removed is because Mech already has a dedicated ground vs ground unit and the reasons we don't mass them vs Protoss is what should be addressed rather then making what amounted to a larger Marauder. That's basically why the Warhound didn't make it, we already have Marauders and we don't need another Marauder esque unit.
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United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2014 08:08 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 07:28 NoGasfOu wrote:
Nothing David Kim does will satisfy the community. They approve and are happy with every single balance change at the beginning according the the polls. After a few months, they will whine again before David Kim and his team have a chance to work on new balance. The cycle then starts all over again. It will never stop. Well these suggestions really are bad. The medivac has already been given boosters and been tweaked since WoL. The widow mines have had their share of touching too. I think people would like to see changes on the raven and ghost that make them very usefully to have on the battlefield. It's been 4 years and the raven should feel like it is as cool as the science vessel but I rarely see it in mid to late game terran. Make the raven an integral unit and viewers will be rewarded.
Well, BisuDagger. I agree with you on a lot of points, but Blizzard has to very very careful on casters in SC2 because of the way smartcast and grouping works. Imo, ravens will never be as cool as science vessels because no one can really ever replicate the difficulty of constantly babysitting those things and targeting lurkers/defilers individually...the SC2 engine is just incapable of doing that.
That said, though, I think that a slight buff to snipe would go miles for helping Terran compete in the lategame while also promoting a bit of strategic diversity. It might be potentially dangerous, but in the shape that Terrans are in now going into the late game, it doesn't seem like an overreaction in my eyes.
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I seriously don't care anymore if they make terran balanced or OP. I really just need a change of pace from PvP or PvZ and having to watch Protoss win over and over and over again.
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I wish the brought back the Goliath. Give it 6dmg x 2, so that it is decent against Immortals, but garbage against Zealots.
Also I'd like to see Yamato get Splash DMG, so we can have those epic BC vs BC fights instead of Mass Viking Raven + 1 Banshee.
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On July 02 2014 10:26 Sykora wrote:
do they not realize that the MSC is the sole reason why terran cant compete with protoss?....do they even watch this game?
You do know that removing/nerfing the MSC will bring the 4-gate all-in in PvP. Awesome right?
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As a Terran I am pretty disappointed by these ideas. Voted no to both. As it has been pointed out by several other players in this thread I feel the real problem is not in the early or midgame, which is where widow mines and to a certain degree medivacs shine (Medivacs are cool for drops in endgame).
In my opinion the Terran endgame needs some loving OR they could dabble in a nerf to the mutalisk regen. Yes it would affect PvZ (and ZvZ as well), but I feel mutalisks have gone from harassment unit to straight up medivac / defender unit -> direct assault unit. It is to far from its original purpose.
I am not really thrilled about these suggestions 
Edit: Also I see so many suggestions regarding buffing the Siege Tank. I am not really that thrilled about that idea either, because:
1) Mutalisks still pick them off to easy. Almost no matter how much you buff it, it would still not matter.
2) Siege tanks are already really strong in TvT, and if we make it even stronger I feel bio + tank would become almost obsolete in the matchup
3) Immortals + Tempest + almost all protoss units really x) make mech practically impossible in TvP. Mobility is king in SC II, so tanks / mech in this matchup will never really become a viable strategy (I recognize some players have experimented with a mech style and some have even at their own level to a certain degree made it work, but overall it is not really viable in TvP).
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On July 02 2014 10:38 hansonslee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 10:26 Sykora wrote:
do they not realize that the MSC is the sole reason why terran cant compete with protoss?....do they even watch this game? You do know that removing/nerfing the MSC will bring the 4-gate all-in in PvP. Awesome right?
No, it won't. We had TWO YEARS of non-4g PvP without MSC in WoL.
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On July 02 2014 10:35 GinDo wrote:
I wish the brought back the Goliath. Give it 6dmg x 2, so that it is decent against Immortals, but garbage against Zealots.
Also I'd like to see Yamato get Splash DMG, so we can have those epic BC vs BC fights instead of Mass Viking Raven + 1 Banshee.
Seems to me that you just want to watch this game called Broodwar. They still play it you know, though it's glory days have certainly long since passed.
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EPT
