EPTTerran Buffs - Balance Testing Soon - July 1 - Page 26
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-Kaiser-
Canada932 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On July 02 2014 11:39 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Am I seriously reading someone complain that Carriers are too good? I reckon Mutineer's joking. If not, then at least Mutineer's got that mad passion. When we say "mech in TvP," what does that actually mean? Hellbat, mine, thor, and tanks? | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
The problem with the game is that in the late game zerg and protoss can break terran static d. Terran cannot do the same. If terran had an equivelent to mass static d/ muta ball or cannons/warp prizm harass, game would be balanced. | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
Remove the Thor and replace it with a Tank that can attack both ground and air in siege mode (make attacking air an upgrade if you wish). And then remove the mine cause at that point it's the same unit just worse... and bring back a reworked Warhound to be the simple mechanical walking a-move unit that goes hand in hand with the Hellbat, kind of like a Terran Immortal. Should maybe consider removing the Marauder at this point, since it's considered a boring unit anyway and would overlap way too much with the role of Warhounds. That's up for debate though, as some may argue that having anti-armor options for both Bio and Mech is good for gameplay variety. Give the BC splash damage or, as someone else suggested, give it glave-like shots that bounce off multiple targets to achieve a similar effect. I think the Yamato Cannon should do splash, as well, or the mana cost should be heavily reduced. (Seems silly that such a mana-heavy ability from Terran's most tech heavy, expensive unit does single-target damage when the Yamato cannon is overkill for all the units that counter the BC :p) Let Terran construct Perdition turrets (the flame-thrower ones from the campaign) to serve as anti-ground static D. Bunkers are great early, but terrible late.. and the fact that they cost supply to fill makes them extremely wasteful when you need every unit possible with your army. Planetary fortresses don't do the job they're supposed to do (protect workers), could even consider removing them from the game to make up for it. This way, armies from P/Z can more easily destroy a vulnerable expansion from T (no more "surprise! SCV repair OP, your army loses"), but T can be better protected against zealot/zergling harass if it's prepared. Ravens would need to be reworked to discourage a turtling Mech play style. Remove/rework PDD, give Ravens more aggressive options that are better served in attacking instead of just defending. Can't stand those stupid Swarmhost vs. PDD games. If Mech is to be considered a serious option, this would definitely have to go. I would love for Swarmhosts to be reworked, but a lot of people love them and I'd rather not mess with Zerg's toys, since Terran design is the real problem here. Just some ideas that I've seen floating around. Bio is fun, but it's getting old, and part of the reason Terran isn't as fun to play as other races as it doesn't allow for variety. Sure, Mech is "viable" in TvZ but not the go-to strategy for many reasons. and as it is now it still is terrible for viewership. These changes (or other suggestions along these lines) might make it more exciting, and could open up options vs. P, as well. | ||
NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10890 Posts
On July 02 2014 11:52 tokinho wrote: This kind of thinking is backwards. The problem with the game is that in the late game zerg and protoss can break terran static d. Terran cannot do the same. If terran had an equivelent to mass static d/ muta ball or cannons/warp prizm harass, game would be balanced. Have you ever played a terran that camps with Turrets, Tanks, Mines, and masses raven's, and vikings, and maybe even throws some other units in there? It gets to the point where its virtually impossible to break without terran making a mistake.... | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:03 mostevil wrote: They're sounding clueless again.. Sad face. This thread sounds even more clueless, the number of absurd sugestions is surprising me o_O Anyway, blizzard should think more carefully before patching the game into an awkward state, look at the new map pool and see what happens without waystation, alterzim and frost... Then make a beautiful patch. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
Wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade to cause vikings to do like 25% or 33% splash damage (admittedly wouldn't help much vs P if it's an upgrade, unless perhaps meching simultaneously, and might make TvT air battles a cluster). Maybe a Thor tweak - at the very least RETURN THEIR AI PRIORITY TARGETING TO AIR! They're worthless in Zerg ling/bling/muta battles unless you manually target the mutas. Hoping to moderately reduce their collision size or something related to make them more agile in countering mutas, given their increased speed, as opposed to relying on widow mines even further vs mutas. Returning snipe to 45 dmg would be awesome, making it 25 dmg was one of the WORST moves ever made, sure Z was dying to mass ghost for a while but Z had generally figured out if you could get a single fungal off they'd die to mass BL - the majority of the games we saw the Ghosts managed to snipe the overseers them pick off all the BLs before they could run, that's an easy mistake to learn how to fix. Would also be a buff vs Zealots as well.... | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:14 FabledIntegral wrote: They're right that WM is a core unit in the TvZ and TvP MU, but I think buffing it further is not the correct course of action. I'd sooner see them buff a unit that isn't used as frequently, such as the siege tank. Potentially increasing their range (not vision) by 1 or increasing their splash or damage vs light. Wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade to cause vikings to do like 25% or 33% splash damage (admittedly wouldn't help much vs P if it's an upgrade, unless perhaps meching simultaneously, and might make TvT air battles a cluster). Maybe a Thor tweak - at the very least RETURN THEIR AI PRIORITY TARGETING TO AIR! They're worthless in Zerg ling/bling/muta battles unless you manually target the mutas. Hoping to moderately reduce their collision size or something related to make them more agile in countering mutas, given their increased speed, as opposed to relying on widow mines even further vs mutas. Returning snipe to 45 dmg would be awesome, making it 25 dmg was one of the WORST moves ever made, sure Z was dying to mass ghost for a while but Z had generally figured out if you could get a single fungal off they'd die to mass BL - the majority of the games we saw the Ghosts managed to snipe the overseers them pick off all the BLs before they could run, that's an easy mistake to learn how to fix. Would also be a buff vs Zealots as well.... I thought that another part of the snipe nerf was due to the fact that they could also kill Ultralisks really quickly with them. | ||
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redcaret
Singapore40 Posts
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dyDrawer
Canada438 Posts
Can't you find some middle ground? | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:17 IntoTheheart wrote: I thought that another part of the snipe nerf was due to the fact that they could also kill Ultralisks really quickly with them. I am actually a little interested to see if ghosts with pre nerf snipe are balanced in a game that features swarm hosts. But then we're playing swarm host turtley games and that makes my testicles shrink up and hide inside my bladder. I feel Tanks are good enough to be useful against Zerg but only in very specific circumstances, like splitting some maps in half to play mech (heavy rain, Overgrowth) and for shorter push distances (see bomber on Merry Go Round, vs ToodMing and vs Leenock if MLG would ever release the vods for that it was fucking sick), or for Gangnam Terran strategies or when they go roach hydra. It is a bit of a shame they're not a core enough unit you can just build automatically all the time but at least we see them sometimes. Obviously they're shit on toast vs Protoss and I'm kinda curious why they've never bothered to just +shield damage like they did with mines, which was a very effective solution. I feel that when it comes to flatly buffing Siege tanks and terran lategame you need to remember that if Terran want to drag out a game behind a mile of fortifications they are well equipped to do it. It's just that most Terrans don't because there's not a lot they tend to be working towards while they do it, or that they hate hour long games. | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:17 IntoTheheart wrote: I thought that another part of the snipe nerf was due to the fact that they could also kill Ultralisks really quickly with them. It was. 45 damage - 20 vs. massive would be a fine alternative however. Would make snipe not great vs. broods or ultras but still useful in TvT and against zealots and other zerg units like banelings (snipe should 1 shot a bane IMO). | ||
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Togekiss
Canada154 Posts
The TIMING of this all seems 'coincidentally', yet extremely convenient only days after the "Welcome to ZParcraft II" article created a shit-storm on TL! Honestly folks, does David Kim even care remotely about balance or is he just proposing said changes because he perceives that these said changes will make the game "More exciting to watch!?!" I hate to be a complete pessimist here, since the tone in the SC community has been gloom and doom for some time now, but really, is David Kim only recognizing the crisis that is the state of the game now?!?! Really, I wouldn't be lying if I said that I've all but left the SC scene, and actually haven't paid much attention to things for the better half of the past 6 months, or haven't even laddered at all for more than an entire season, because it's true, things really do need an honest re-work... ...but the way in which David Kim so cavalierly approaches the "Balance" and "Viewability" of this game has to make one wonder if he is just in fact paid to do just enough to keep people quiet. | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
Anyone else remember that spell that ghosts have called Snipe? When was that last used in a non T vs HighTemplar game? 2011? Edit: Ugh, the widow mine... Even as a Terran player, the Widow Mine is such a random aoe unit. Terran really needs a more reliable splah unit in the late game against Zerg as many Zergs have figured out how to counter mines almost perfectly. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:17 IntoTheheart wrote: I thought that another part of the snipe nerf was due to the fact that they could also kill Ultralisks really quickly with them. Right - I didn't find them great vs BL but they were indeed an Ultralisk killer. Personally, I didn't mind them being a counter. I definitely left that out though. Could always make massive units immune to snipe and make snipe do like 60 damage, would be a sick counter to zealots, mutas, etc. I still loved seeing ultras go down to them though, ghosts were so immobile though I didn't find it a major issue, they coudlnt' keep up with teh bio army so you just ran around with ultras. It also took a ton of APM to consistently spam the attack, reducing your splitting abilities, etc. Can you tell I missed the dynamic? And I was a zerg player that went for ultras the majority of my games, hehe. | ||
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warbean
United States11 Posts
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