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On July 02 2014 13:17 Redfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 07:58 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 02 2014 07:56 Redfish wrote:
Absolutely, unequivocally hell no on both of them.
Medivacs are NOT exciting. This does nothing to change playstyles, bring about new strategies, or address the problems where they lie (Zerg units being too good and Protoss being overly reliant on FF and MSC). It's also toxic to building the game - the justification that the overall skill level of the player base improved shouldn't be used to make something harder, and therefore lock out newer players who might want to learn but get frustrated by the steep learning curve.
Widow Mines are also incredibly not exciting and this will end up being a repeat of the Hellbat drop days in TvP. Mines have a place but it is NOT in their current iteration and NOT as a "totally fuck zerglings and zealots" free-cast unit. Have you never watched Polt play? I have, and I think it's boring as all sin. Oh look, another Medivac with marines. How innovative. Maybe it'll boost. Or maybe there will be TWO Medivacs! Sorry, to me it's just stale and bland.
Oh look, a zealot warp-in. How innovative. Maybe it has charge. Maybe there will be MOAR zealots!
Sorry, to me your understanding is stale and bland.
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On July 02 2014 13:39 User15937 wrote:
I have no idea where he's getting that Terran is weaker than Protoss and Zerg. At least according to aliguliac, Terran is the strongest race at the moment.
Because when we use our eyes and brains, its very easy to see that Terrans are the weakest by far
Aliguliac isn't a good balance tool
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give terran hero units. then we are even
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I have an easy answer to all Terran woes: Keep them the same and give them an extra set up of upgrades. 400/400: +4 YEAHHH BABY!
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Buffing medivacs: meh. Unit's already in a good place. I guess it's sort of unique to Terran to play with lots of drops all game, but I don't see it being a great fix.
Buffing mines: extra meh. They either hit or they don't. I watch good Z just snipe them with controlled mutalisks; changing the exact damage isn't going to matter much. P with good control can pick them off with Stalkers and an Observer.
I'd like to see some change with the Mothership core to open up more early game pressure from T to P. Also, going for crazier suggestions: make Snipe a spell worth casting again & make Nukes more damaging to infrastructure (lategame Ghosts nuking things and forcing a response to protect production would be hella awesome to watch. Everyone likes nukes.)
Maybe improve Tanks to hit a little harder? Mech Terran is defined by a hard-hitting but fairly static force - careful positioning and micro in the tank push define the style. Problem is that the backbone of the tech, the tank, isn't hitting like it needs to, if it's going to be the basis for a playstyle.
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Both these buffs involve tvz as well as tvp. With the hellbat buff, I don't think Terran should be additionally buffed vs zerg. It's till very fresh.
Make it so the MSC doesn't shoot terran units. There's a nice buff. Time warp is strong enough.
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make siege tanks deploy in 2 sec
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Buffing medivacs is a really bad idea. Buffing the unit that drops the bad and ineffective Terran units does not make the bad and ineffective Terran units better. Buff the tank, the battlecruiser, FUCKING ANYTHING before we buff the Terran unit that doesn't need it.
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On July 02 2014 14:07 TRaFFiC wrote:
Both these buffs involve tvz as well as tvp. With the hellbat buff, I don't think Terran should be additionally buffed vs zerg. It's till very fresh.
Make it so the MSC doesn't shoot terran units. There's a nice buff. Time warp is strong enough.
Removing the MSCs ability to shoot at all would be a nice start on its own. I mean, it already has photon overcharge and timewarp. Hell, even making the MSC require energy to attack, like the oracle, would be a nice start.
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On July 02 2014 13:42 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 13:17 Redfish wrote:On July 02 2014 07:58 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 02 2014 07:56 Redfish wrote:
Absolutely, unequivocally hell no on both of them.
Medivacs are NOT exciting. This does nothing to change playstyles, bring about new strategies, or address the problems where they lie (Zerg units being too good and Protoss being overly reliant on FF and MSC). It's also toxic to building the game - the justification that the overall skill level of the player base improved shouldn't be used to make something harder, and therefore lock out newer players who might want to learn but get frustrated by the steep learning curve.
Widow Mines are also incredibly not exciting and this will end up being a repeat of the Hellbat drop days in TvP. Mines have a place but it is NOT in their current iteration and NOT as a "totally fuck zerglings and zealots" free-cast unit. Have you never watched Polt play? I have, and I think it's boring as all sin. Oh look, another Medivac with marines. How innovative. Maybe it'll boost. Or maybe there will be TWO Medivacs! Sorry, to me it's just stale and bland. Oh look, a zealot warp-in. How innovative. Maybe it has charge. Maybe there will be MOAR zealots! Sorry, to me your understanding is stale and bland.
You didn't prove to anyone that his point is invalid, in fact you improved it... You essentially agreed with him that watching the same redundant harassment tactics over and over again is boring. Whether its P or T, its the same point. Good work.
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As a terran player myself, I'll take anything they give me, but I'm not to fond of those proposed changes (mine buff is OK I guess, but medivac... Meh)
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On July 02 2014 02:09 Karpfen wrote:
Yes to both. You'd have to be a hypocritical fuck not to vote yes to both.
Yeah, if you say so, it must be true.
I agree with SC2Toastie & KrazyTrumpet. Sure, changes would probably be good. These are horrid.
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I don't understand all this talk...MSC got PvP off 1 base slat...not being able to warp in up ledges got PvP off 4 gate all in fests
Hots PvP has been better as well because of the ability to have detection in stargate, expo easier with MSC, and because it costs less gas to get to DTs. PreHotS PvP didn't have near the flexibility.
But this thread is about Terran and I think the beginning of the thread and throughout the answer has been there over and over. Why are you making the units that are used better? Give the units that are not being as helpful more use.
Although I don't think TvP is unbalanced in the absolute sense its that Terran is having to walk to many fine lines so unless you are Taeja or Maru you just aren't getting the edges you need.
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On July 02 2014 14:01 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I have an easy answer to all Terran woes: Keep them the same and give them an extra set up of upgrades. 400/400: +4 YEAHHH BABY!
this idea is so stupid and crazy that now I really want it.
+4, baby. INFINITE POWER MARINES FOREVER.
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On July 02 2014 14:29 Eliezar wrote:
I don't understand all this talk...MSC got PvP off 1 base slat...not being able to warp in up ledges got PvP off 4 gate all in fests
Hots PvP has been better as well because of the ability to have detection in stargate, expo easier with MSC, and because it costs less gas to get to DTs. PreHotS PvP didn't have near the flexibility.
But this thread is about Terran and I think the beginning of the thread and throughout the answer has been there over and over. Why are you making the units that are used better? Give the units that are not being as helpful more use.
Although I don't think TvP is unbalanced in the absolute sense its that Terran is having to walk to many fine lines so unless you are Taeja or Maru you just aren't getting the edges you need.
Expansions after production setup or aggression existed back in WoL and where very common. Expansions without these dont exist in HotS either. I question whether the MsC helps PvP at all, given how it makes 1gate into DT/blink/oracle safe and therefore stronger and is a huge buff to PvP early blink play.
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On July 02 2014 14:50 mDuo13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 14:01 AxiomBlurr wrote:
I have an easy answer to all Terran woes: Keep them the same and give them an extra set up of upgrades. 400/400: +4 YEAHHH BABY! this idea is so stupid and crazy that now I really want it. +4, baby. INFINITE POWER MARINES FOREVER.
Just allow terran to upgrade forever, +20 stimmed marines with 50 armor, or tanks that one shot ultralisks.
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Thank you for the proposed changes.
Perhaps boost should also require medivac energy, meaning that high level players could decide when to alocate energy usage and the ability could always be used like stim or a slower energy burn like the oracle. This way the terran could waste energy faster to avoid templar massacre's however the protoss still get's an advantage by feedbacking the medivacs as they are no longer able to boost. Also works well for escaping mutalisk.
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On July 02 2014 14:16 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 13:42 plogamer wrote:On July 02 2014 13:17 Redfish wrote:On July 02 2014 07:58 ROOTiaguz wrote:On July 02 2014 07:56 Redfish wrote:
Absolutely, unequivocally hell no on both of them.
Medivacs are NOT exciting. This does nothing to change playstyles, bring about new strategies, or address the problems where they lie (Zerg units being too good and Protoss being overly reliant on FF and MSC). It's also toxic to building the game - the justification that the overall skill level of the player base improved shouldn't be used to make something harder, and therefore lock out newer players who might want to learn but get frustrated by the steep learning curve.
Widow Mines are also incredibly not exciting and this will end up being a repeat of the Hellbat drop days in TvP. Mines have a place but it is NOT in their current iteration and NOT as a "totally fuck zerglings and zealots" free-cast unit. Have you never watched Polt play? I have, and I think it's boring as all sin. Oh look, another Medivac with marines. How innovative. Maybe it'll boost. Or maybe there will be TWO Medivacs! Sorry, to me it's just stale and bland. Oh look, a zealot warp-in. How innovative. Maybe it has charge. Maybe there will be MOAR zealots! Sorry, to me your understanding is stale and bland. You didn't prove to anyone that his point is invalid, in fact you improved it... You essentially agreed with him that watching the same redundant harassment tactics over and over again is boring. Whether its P or T, its the same point. Good work.
I don't think they really care at this point. Anything to take a stab at Protoss. Its actually amazing how many ways you can say "Protoss OP" and its incredible the length that they go to fuck up ANY discussion or argument to actually say it**.
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EPT
