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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
Nobody in their right mind is going to be sniping mass zealots and mass banelings... Terran already has to worry about doing 5 other things during every battle... For costing 200/100, ghosts with a specific energy skill should counter ultralisks... Edit: This is like when they proposed Neural Parasite wouldnt be able to affect massive units... Nobody is neuraling marines and zerglings, and nobody should be sniping individual zerglings, banelings, and zealots... It's silly. | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
On July 02 2014 10:41 neptunusfisk wrote: No, it won't. We had TWO YEARS of non-4g PvP without MSC in WoL. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to add Blink Stalker all-ins. We all know how much people loved that  | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:33 warbean wrote: What about bringing back the Medivac super healing upgrade from beta? Would help late game quite a bit. LOL. If you didn't play during that time period, I really wish you had. Terran could never lose mid game with that upgrade. | ||
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:32 NKexquisite wrote: Fix the ghost. Completely a useless unit unless you are trying to counter a specific unit that Anyone else remember that spell that ghosts have called Snipe? When was that last used in a non T vs HighTemplar game? 2011? Edit: Ugh, the widow mine... Even as a Terran player, the Widow Mine is such a random aoe unit. Terran really needs a more reliable splah unit in the late game against Zerg as many Zergs have figured out how to counter mines almost perfectly. Watch how taeja controls it | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
You have an example of him using it against something other than HT? | ||
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thirtyapm
521 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:37 hansonslee wrote: Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to add Blink Stalker all-ins. We all know how much people loved that PvP in the last few months of WoL was more refined and less coinflippy than HotS PvP has ever been, with all tech routes being pretty viable. If you really are under the silly impression that PvP was all 4-gates and all-ins, I encourage you to go back and watch some VoDs from May - November of 2012 to get a better understanding of what was really going on there. We had quite a few games go into the late game, and probably the majority of PvP games made it past 12:00, which is far greater average time than the PvPs in HotS, despite the MSC bringing "balance" to the matchup. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Nerf the fuck out of Race X, then point to an exceptional player who plays Race X and tell everyone to play like that. Ok, thanks for your "constructive" comment. | ||
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varsovie
Canada326 Posts
I'd be more in favor of reverting the hellbat damage nerf but removing it's bio status. If you need to buff medevac, consider making Caduceus reactor relevant... | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:42 SC2John wrote: PvP in the last few months of WoL was more refined and less coinflippy than HotS PvP has ever been, with all tech routes being pretty viable. If you really are under the silly impression that PvP was all 4-gates and all-ins, I encourage you to go back and watch some VoDs from May - November of 2012 to get a better understanding of what was really going on there. We had quite a few games go into the late game, and probably the majority of PvP games made it past 12:00, which is far greater average time than the PvPs in HotS, despite the MSC bringing "balance" to the matchup. No, you're right. It wasn't always all-in. But I still disagree that PvP is less coin flippy in WoL. There were definitely moments of late game composition/macro. However, PvP at the time was still riddled with a bunch of build order losses and all-ins. Plus, there was a suggestion to nerf the MSC's photon overcharge, but it did not pull through bc of PvP. | ||
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asdfOu
United States2089 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:32 NKexquisite wrote: Fix the ghost. Completely a useless unit unless you are trying to counter a specific unit that Anyone else remember that spell that ghosts have called Snipe? When was that last used in a non T vs HighTemplar game? 2011? Edit: Ugh, the widow mine... Even as a Terran player, the Widow Mine is such a random aoe unit. Terran really needs a more reliable splah unit in the late game against Zerg as many Zergs have figured out how to counter mines almost perfectly. Holy what in the fuck are you even saying. If you don't understand or play SC2 don't complain about it and pretend like you have even the slightest idea about what you're saying. Ghosts don't counter ONE Protoss unit. EMP does damage to shields, which ALL Protoss units have. If you EMP a Protoss unit that's like 40-50% of it's life gone right there. Archons have 10 life and 350 shields, therefore if Ghosts are in play they are close to useless as they are a large, high priority target for EMP. Being able to zap mana from HTs and deal that much damage INSTANTLY (which storm doesn't) to an entire army, or the majority of an army is a HUGE DEAL!!!!!! There's a reason people do SCV pulls with TWO ghosts mixed in... because it increases the strength of that allin by a HUGEEEEE AMOUNT despite only requiring two. You clearly have never experienced or seen a game where a really strong Terran snipes/EMPs every HT before any spells get off (masters and pros alike are capable of this). Not only is this very skilful and impressive, but incredibly powerful to be able to limit Protoss to not be able to use HTs cost efficiently, or if the Terran is good enough, at all. "It's never used in games in which the Terran has to counter high templars." Like, did you see a game where Maru went straight bio and tried to kill Protoss with heavy aggression but ended up dying because he couldn't deal enough damage or win and then just assume no Terran ever uses ghosts? Where does this opinion come from!?!? | ||
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duckk
United States622 Posts
Perhaps buff the widow mine's damage and splash, but make them always visible, even when burrowed. ... I do not know, sc2 seems like it is in a hard spot to balance, lotv will hopefully have some major changes. | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
I have, and I think it's boring as all sin. Oh look, another Medivac with marines. How innovative. Maybe it'll boost. Or maybe there will be TWO Medivacs! Sorry, to me it's just stale and bland. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
Medivac Medivac harass has been getting weaker since the beginning of HotS due to players improving at defending against them. If we increase the strength of Medivacs, we’d not only help out Terran on both matchups, but also help provide even more action-packed games to watch. We wonder if buffing the unload speed or increasing the duration of the speed boost slightly would help in a positive way. I'm not going to comment on race imba and stuff, but how can the bolded part possibly ever be a reason to buff something? You have these pro players spending countless hours practicing to defend a certain play, and now it's just "Oh you guys are good at defending this? I guess I need to make it stronger!" My own opinion is that terran should get a late game buff. Other than mech TvZ, terrans pretty much have no need for gas in late games. Maybe make nuclear launches more powerful? I care less about balance and more about entertainment though.  | ||
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r691175002
249 Posts
Marines have a hard enough time as is. If tanks start one shotting them at 14 range we are going to have a problem. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
Ground mech has waaaaay too many weaknesses against protoss to fix easily, but maybe something to make Terran air more desirable in the late game? | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On July 02 2014 12:42 SC2John wrote: PvP in the last few months of WoL was more refined and less coinflippy than HotS PvP has ever been, with all tech routes being pretty viable. If you really are under the silly impression that PvP was all 4-gates and all-ins, I encourage you to go back and watch some VoDs from May - November of 2012 to get a better understanding of what was really going on there. We had quite a few games go into the late game, and probably the majority of PvP games made it past 12:00, which is far greater average time than the PvPs in HotS, despite the MSC bringing "balance" to the matchup. I have to respectfully disagree with you, John, even though I know that you always put a lot of effort into knowing your shit and are smrt. Lemme say that I agree that if we removed the msc that pvp would not turn south as a result of 4 gates because players are a lot better at defending allins by making adjustments to their openings. I, for example, versus like a 10 gate opening in a 3 gate allin gradually go up to 3 gates while chronoing the shit out of sentries and don't even end up using my msc... It's just for show and floats around looking pretty. It's not only this vast improvement of players, but also the aid of the MSC that allows Protosses to get up a natural way more frequently and safely than in WoL. The current 1 gate expand into Stargate/Robo builds are both very viable and you can definitely come out ahead or even versus a lot of different aggressive builds. That's not to say that you don't have large disadvantages versus some builds of course, but it's the MSC that even gives you a fighting chance and makes these openers an option at all. The MSC changes a lot of situations from hard counters into soft counters by acting as a stall until you can get defence up (stargate vs blink, fast expand versus fucking anything, etc). It's not like particular tech routes weren't viable at the end of WoL, but they were INCREDIBLY "coinflippy" imo. From what I remember, Robo and Blink were the most safe and common openers by a long shot, while DT and Phoenix were very risky (Stargate especially since no oracle for detection or keeping the opponents MSC/units at home for defense). There were quite a few really stupid allins that don't, or barely work now that used to be pretty strong, such as proxy voidray and 4 gate warprism. I dunno if I agree that PvP isn't refined now. I think the reason it might not be refined is that people are still figuring it out and there are a lot of really clever openings coming and going all the time and not because of balance, which you appear to be suggesting. | ||
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User15937
68 Posts
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