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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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Telon Petrides
Canada58 Posts
Also I note that a high number of games come from SEA tournaments but they all seem to be ZvZ, so that makes the ZVZ match stats really high. Perhaps Aligulac can be improved with a rating factor that considers the KR vs outside and KR vs KR more. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:40 stuchiu wrote: Though from what I've seen of Korean Terrans that aren't named Maru and Taeja, all they do is pull scvs. So maybe Bomber is actually the best TvP player again? The bbyongjwa doesn't pull SCV.s. He mfing flies them. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:40 stuchiu wrote: Though from what I've seen of Korean Terrans that aren't named Maru and Taeja, all they do is pull scvs. So maybe Bomber is actually the best TvP player again? BitByBit Code S Champ! | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:40 SC2Toastie wrote: I don't understand the post :s... It wasn't objective It was factually based. I was joking. I thought it was objective but I guess it could be thought of differently. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:42 Ctone23 wrote: I was joking. I thought it was objective but I guess it could be thought of differently. if attacking the skill of a good portion of top P/Z is objectivity this is a sad world. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:42 Ctone23 wrote: I was joking. I thought it was objective but I guess it could be thought of differently. Ok :D! npnp, I just didn't understand what you ment exactly  | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:43 sAsImre wrote: if attacking the skill of a good portion of top P/Z is objectivity this is a sad world. Sometimes you have to hurt feelings to get the point across. The facts are that Terran is really struggling at the moment and the data backs up the OP. Obviously it's not that objective, but in terms of data backing up the claim that Terran is not doing well, seems pretty obvious to me. | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Taeja - only Terran to play end game TvP. Polt - only Terran to obsessively counter attack. Maru - best Micro. Bomber - Thinks its 2011 or 2012. Supernova - invents new mech builds and timings every other game. Bbyong - Is Gangnam The only one semi-normal is Innovation. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:35 Survivor61316 wrote: Anyone who who doesn't think Terran is a weak race right now has never played as Terran on ladder..or watches pro games objectively. Agreed. Life for Terran has almost always been tough on ladder, They've been underrepresented at the high levels for pretty much every period except early HoTS and early WoL. But lately it's just extra terrible. Not only is it just plain harder to play with late game Terran than the other races but the combination of huge maps and lack of viable offensive weapons means they're playing every single game on the Protoss or Zerg player's terms. There's just so few ways to keep a Zerg or a Protoss honest. The Helbat patch helped, but it's not enough on its own. | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
HotS was a big buff for the 3 races, but terran changed the least so they adapted much faster so: 1 - Terran had great results in early HotS and was overnerfed. 2 - Protoss and Zerg adapted to the new gameplay advantages when terran was dealing with mid season nerfs. The result is crystal clear. However those mistakes cannot be fixed with more mistakes. Blizzard should try to patch the game properly from now on. Terran is not going to populate code S and A in one week, Its going to take a while. The winrates are not alarming right now and not only protoss was nerfed but terran was buffed so things tend to improve. Lets wait and see if the recent patches work out, if they don't blizzard will do something about it (they are patching the game a lot recently), although they are not reliable to do it properly (to be fair its a really hard job). To add insult to injury terran was already struggling in WoL last months and HotS beta feeded a lot of hope. But what is annoying me is that it seens people will not stop complaining until terran wins a GSL, even if the game reaches balance. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:43 sAsImre wrote: if attacking the skill of a good portion of top P/Z is objectivity this is a sad world. Like it is not sad to have a much larger portion of Top T be rewarded by all their hard work with nothing? I'd rather work hard and get a ton of money and fame and a bit of slack, than work hard and get no money, no fame and lose reputation and sponsor opportunities. Remember, there's guys doing this for a living who have been getting shafted for like 8 months now. That is sad. Not the fact some Protoss/Zerg has his feelings hurt by some good old truth in his face. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:41 Telon Petrides wrote: I think a problem with Aligulac is that it inflates the ratings of the KR playing in AM or EU, like Inno or ForGG or Polt or Hyun etc. Then generally when these players play vs a regular KR, they get stomped. Polt vs Trap at MLG was a one sided 6-1 affair and it seemed they were in different leagues. Inno goes 28-4 in ATC, rockets up the charts, but struggles in WCS KR. Also I note that a high number of games come from SEA tournaments but they all seem to be ZvZ, so that makes the ZVZ match stats really high. Perhaps Aligulac can be improved with a rating factor that considers the KR vs outside and KR vs KR more. If that happened the situation would look even more dire for Terrans. Foreign Terran pros are so rare they're almost a myth. The only success Terran has really had in the last year has been away from Korea with Korean Terran pros like Taeja and Polt. In Korea Terran is reduced to really just Maru, Bbyong and Innovation. Flash and TY show up sometimes in proleague but are stuck in Code A in the GSL. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:48 Superbanana wrote: All this mess is a result of two factors that together kicked terran hard in the nuts. HotS was a big buff for the 3 races, but terran changed the least so they adapted much faster so: 1 - Terran had great results in early HotS and was overnerfed. 2 - Protoss and Zerg adapted to the new gameplay advantages when terran was dealing with mid season nerfs. The result is crystal clear. However those mistakes cannot be fixed with more mistakes. Blizzard should try to patch the game properly from now on. Terran is not going to populate code S and A in one week, Its going to take a while. The winrates are not alarming right now and not only protoss was nerfed but terran was buffed so things tend to improve. Lets wait and see if the recent patches work out, if they don't blizzard will do something about it (they are patching the game a lot recently), although they are not reliable to do it properly (to be fair its a really hard job). To add insult to injury terran was already struggling in WoL last months and HotS beta feeded a lot of hope. But what is annoying me is that it seens people will not stop complaining until terran wins a GSL, even if the game reaches balance. What winrates are not alarming? The ones I see everywhere certainly are. Do we need HuK and Goswser (first names to pop in mind) go 5-0 over Maru before we start thinking something may be wrong? That last snarky comment has no place in that post, btw. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On July 01 2014 03:55 DeadByDawn wrote: The only match up where Terran is favored is TvT. I can honestly not tell if some of these posts are just trolling anymore - the record of Premier/Major tournaments for 2014 show Terran to be non-existent and the patch will not have much impact on this. Your own personal troubles against Terran are not reflective of the balance situation, only your own inadequacies. Against Zerg something needs to be done about Muta flocks and their insane health regeneration. Buffing WMs will not work as most pros have an overseer with the flock. Turrets are useless as soon as the flock gets to a 7 or more and Thors are too expensive and slow. Push out as Terran and there is an extremely high risk that your base will be wrecked by a Muta counter-attack whilst you are still trying to clear creep in the middle of the map. Nerfing Muta regen would be welcome. Wrong. You can make up your opinions. But you shouldn't make up your facts. Terran is favored in TvP. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ | ||
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Shaella
United States14827 Posts
On July 01 2014 07:02 Salient wrote: Wrong. You can make up your opinions. But you shouldn't make up your facts. Terran is favored in TvP. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ Stop linking to Aligulac. It is not a useful balance tool. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 01 2014 07:02 Salient wrote: Wrong. You can make up your opinions. But you shouldn't make up your facts. Terran is favored in TvP. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ Look at what those stats are made up of. | ||
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
On July 01 2014 07:02 Salient wrote: Wrong. You can make up your opinions. But you shouldn't make up your facts. Terran is favored in TvP. http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ Yeah that website does not even come close to being "fact" or show anything of value in competitive play. Terran is certainly not favored in TVP. Pretty much every high end player/caster will always state Terran has to worry about many things early game, Terran is fine mid game, but once at late game Protoss is favored again vs Terran. Terran's answer has been "don't let protoss get to that point or die. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On July 01 2014 07:15 LingBlingBling wrote: Yeah that website does not even come close to being "fact" or show anything of value in competitive play. Terran is certainly not favored in TVP. Pretty much every high end player/caster will always state Terran has to worry about many things early game, Terran is fine mid game, but once at late game Protoss is favored again vs Terran. Terran's answer has been "don't let protoss get to that point or die. Don't listen to casters. They are paid to hype the game up, and nothing kills hype like talking about clear and large balance issues. Also, pretty much all casters are ex-pro protoss players or never got to that level to have authority-,- | ||
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