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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
In conclusion Supernova and Bbyong and supremely underrated players.
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"Lings of Liberty" was mostly funny. The "Great Book of Protoss BS" was also very funny (and educational.) This OP however is almost offensive. The disregard for the skill of some professional players makes it hard to read through the entire text.
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What a fantastic post. Read the whole thing laughing periodically. It needed to be said no doubt. The hellbat patch changed tvz quite a bit and that was very recent, but tvp is equally if not more problematic. Personally, I think this is because P has the best rushes and the best late game. Blizzard needs to do something quickly. There are people's careers on the line.
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On July 01 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 05:52 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:41 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 05:08 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 04:29 Ctone23 wrote:On July 01 2014 04:07 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 03:58 Melliflue wrote:
It is still TaeJa carrying the Terrans but the effect of the KeSPA switch players could be important. This makes we wonder where the KeSPA switch Terrans are. Only Bogus/INnoVation has had any success out of the KeSPA switch Terrans, and he lost form after moving to Acer. Maybe the rise of these KeSPA switch players and absence of KeSPA switch Terrans has contributed to the recent Terran problems.
Why there are not as many KeSPA switch Terrans could be down to balance, but could also be something about the way Brood War Terran plays compared to SC2 Terran that means the BW skillset for BW Terrans is not as helpful for playing Terran in SC2. TaeJa and Maru, the two often held up as the hopes for Terran to win a tournament, never played BW professionally.
The problem is that there are literally only two terrans that matter, Taeja and Maru, when all of the tier 2 has disappeared, you know there's a real problem Yeah, it's easy to see the face value and listen to Blizzard when they say "Terran has won X out of Y tournaments, so we think they are okay". If only two top-level Koreans can make moves in the GSL/Proleague/WCS, that should be worrying. Small tweaks here and there could be made to help Foreigner Terrans compete, at some level.(Faust made some cool suggestions earlier.) We see foreign Protoss and Zerg players seeing a limited amount of success, but nothing major. (After all, it is a Korean dominated sport.) INnoVation was ok in GSL, Flash is doing great in proleague, and the "tier 2 that disappeared" in Shaella post are Jjakji, Polt, Bbyong, MMA and ForGG. So its not as bad as you say. Also, can you tell me what is the limited amount of sucess for foreign protoss? Because i think protoss foreigners are doing as well as Major, Bunny, Happy and a few others. Inno didn't make it past RO16 The fact that there's only 4 FUCKING TERRANS in GSL code S should have clued you in, Flash didn't even make it in A big chunk of top terrans are not playing in Korea. A big chunk. You mean Bomber, ForGG, Jjakji, Heart, Alive, Yoda, MVP, MMA? These are the WCS NA/EU Terrans. Note, they all frequently drop maps or even series to foreign Zergs/Protosses and none of them has acchieved anything big in recent history. Care to explain the mystical Terrans you speak of? Exactly those guys. I agree terran is struggling recently, but i think the main factor for the lack of terrans in GSL is the absence of those names. And any korean can drop maps to foreigners. I just think there is too much drama when the winrates for terran are ok, specially after the recent patches. edit: Terran can be struggling a lot or a little, but there is too much drama anyway. Bomber is notoriously bad against Protoss. MMA has even worse problems against Protoss. He wouldn't do well either. ForGG? He couldn't beat a Zerg to save his life pre-hellbat patch. And even now I still don't think he can do it against the best. Jjakji was good, but went downhill in the last month. Heart has good TvZ I'll grant you that. But he hasnt fought the upper echelon of ZvT'ers and his TvP is suspect as well (beating Pigbaby is not much to go on either way). Alive is bad. Yoda is worse. MVP is even worse than that.
Hey! MVP is good. His body just can't keep up with his incredible skill Kappa.
User was warned for this post
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Thank you, DWF, for explaining in meticulous detail why so many of us Terrans have quit playing entirely and only tune in when one of us (Taeja) beats the odds and does well in a tournament.
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It only took TL nearly 3 years to write an article about the flaws of Protoss design.
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On July 01 2014 06:23 PcH wrote:
It only took TL nearly 3 years to write an article about the flaws of Protoss design.
Are you sure?
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On July 01 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 05:52 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:41 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 05:08 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 04:29 Ctone23 wrote:On July 01 2014 04:07 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 03:58 Melliflue wrote:
It is still TaeJa carrying the Terrans but the effect of the KeSPA switch players could be important. This makes we wonder where the KeSPA switch Terrans are. Only Bogus/INnoVation has had any success out of the KeSPA switch Terrans, and he lost form after moving to Acer. Maybe the rise of these KeSPA switch players and absence of KeSPA switch Terrans has contributed to the recent Terran problems.
Why there are not as many KeSPA switch Terrans could be down to balance, but could also be something about the way Brood War Terran plays compared to SC2 Terran that means the BW skillset for BW Terrans is not as helpful for playing Terran in SC2. TaeJa and Maru, the two often held up as the hopes for Terran to win a tournament, never played BW professionally.
The problem is that there are literally only two terrans that matter, Taeja and Maru, when all of the tier 2 has disappeared, you know there's a real problem Yeah, it's easy to see the face value and listen to Blizzard when they say "Terran has won X out of Y tournaments, so we think they are okay". If only two top-level Koreans can make moves in the GSL/Proleague/WCS, that should be worrying. Small tweaks here and there could be made to help Foreigner Terrans compete, at some level.(Faust made some cool suggestions earlier.) We see foreign Protoss and Zerg players seeing a limited amount of success, but nothing major. (After all, it is a Korean dominated sport.) INnoVation was ok in GSL, Flash is doing great in proleague, and the "tier 2 that disappeared" in Shaella post are Jjakji, Polt, Bbyong, MMA and ForGG. So its not as bad as you say. Also, can you tell me what is the limited amount of sucess for foreign protoss? Because i think protoss foreigners are doing as well as Major, Bunny, Happy and a few others. Inno didn't make it past RO16 The fact that there's only 4 FUCKING TERRANS in GSL code S should have clued you in, Flash didn't even make it in A big chunk of top terrans are not playing in Korea. A big chunk. You mean Bomber, ForGG, Jjakji, Heart, Alive, Yoda, MVP, MMA? These are the WCS NA/EU Terrans. Note, they all frequently drop maps or even series to foreign Zergs/Protosses and none of them has acchieved anything big in recent history. Care to explain the mystical Terrans you speak of? Exactly those guys. I agree terran is struggling recently, but i think the main factor for the lack of terrans in GSL is the absence of those names. And any korean can drop maps to foreigners. I just think there is too much drama when the winrates for terran are ok, specially after the recent patches. edit: Terran can be struggling a lot or a little, but there is too much drama anyway. Bomber is notoriously bad against Protoss. MMA has even worse problems against Protoss. He wouldn't do well either. ForGG? He couldn't beat a Zerg to save his life pre-hellbat patch. And even now I still don't think he can do it against the best. Jjakji was good, but went downhill in the last month. Heart has good TvZ I'll grant you that. But he hasnt fought the upper echelon of ZvT'ers and his TvP is suspect as well (beating Pigbaby is not much to go on either way). Alive is bad. Yoda is worse. MVP is even worse than that.
I thought Bomber's best matchup was TvP?
Historically it was that way, and aligulac seems to agree
http://aligulac.com/players/12-Bomber/
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On July 01 2014 06:25 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:On July 01 2014 05:52 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:41 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 05:08 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 04:29 Ctone23 wrote:On July 01 2014 04:07 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 03:58 Melliflue wrote:
It is still TaeJa carrying the Terrans but the effect of the KeSPA switch players could be important. This makes we wonder where the KeSPA switch Terrans are. Only Bogus/INnoVation has had any success out of the KeSPA switch Terrans, and he lost form after moving to Acer. Maybe the rise of these KeSPA switch players and absence of KeSPA switch Terrans has contributed to the recent Terran problems.
Why there are not as many KeSPA switch Terrans could be down to balance, but could also be something about the way Brood War Terran plays compared to SC2 Terran that means the BW skillset for BW Terrans is not as helpful for playing Terran in SC2. TaeJa and Maru, the two often held up as the hopes for Terran to win a tournament, never played BW professionally.
The problem is that there are literally only two terrans that matter, Taeja and Maru, when all of the tier 2 has disappeared, you know there's a real problem Yeah, it's easy to see the face value and listen to Blizzard when they say "Terran has won X out of Y tournaments, so we think they are okay". If only two top-level Koreans can make moves in the GSL/Proleague/WCS, that should be worrying. Small tweaks here and there could be made to help Foreigner Terrans compete, at some level.(Faust made some cool suggestions earlier.) We see foreign Protoss and Zerg players seeing a limited amount of success, but nothing major. (After all, it is a Korean dominated sport.) INnoVation was ok in GSL, Flash is doing great in proleague, and the "tier 2 that disappeared" in Shaella post are Jjakji, Polt, Bbyong, MMA and ForGG. So its not as bad as you say. Also, can you tell me what is the limited amount of sucess for foreign protoss? Because i think protoss foreigners are doing as well as Major, Bunny, Happy and a few others. Inno didn't make it past RO16 The fact that there's only 4 FUCKING TERRANS in GSL code S should have clued you in, Flash didn't even make it in A big chunk of top terrans are not playing in Korea. A big chunk. You mean Bomber, ForGG, Jjakji, Heart, Alive, Yoda, MVP, MMA? These are the WCS NA/EU Terrans. Note, they all frequently drop maps or even series to foreign Zergs/Protosses and none of them has acchieved anything big in recent history. Care to explain the mystical Terrans you speak of? Exactly those guys. I agree terran is struggling recently, but i think the main factor for the lack of terrans in GSL is the absence of those names. And any korean can drop maps to foreigners. I just think there is too much drama when the winrates for terran are ok, specially after the recent patches. edit: Terran can be struggling a lot or a little, but there is too much drama anyway. Bomber is notoriously bad against Protoss. MMA has even worse problems against Protoss. He wouldn't do well either. ForGG? He couldn't beat a Zerg to save his life pre-hellbat patch. And even now I still don't think he can do it against the best. Jjakji was good, but went downhill in the last month. Heart has good TvZ I'll grant you that. But he hasnt fought the upper echelon of ZvT'ers and his TvP is suspect as well (beating Pigbaby is not much to go on either way). Alive is bad. Yoda is worse. MVP is even worse than that. I thought Bomber's best matchup was TvP? Historically it was that way, and aligulac seems to agree http://aligulac.com/players/12-Bomber/
WoL Bomber was beastly. Maybe he meant post patch.
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On July 01 2014 06:11 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:08 ZAiNs wrote:On July 01 2014 06:01 SC2Toastie wrote:
Also, I'm getting kinda annoyed by all the one-line nay-sayers that ramble and ramble and ignore clear evidence all the time. It's a discussion forum, not a "T_T DONT NERF ME TERRAN OP LOOK AT MY STATS" shout contest. A lot of people pop in, say something random, clearly not having read the thread, and continue to ignore arguments made in favor of spouting random blablabla It's because no arguments have been made, just opinions being stated as fact with flimsy statistics to back them up. then how do you explain the absolute nosedive in terran performance did all the terrans magically get worse at the same time?
Statistics, how do they work!?!?!
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On July 01 2014 06:27 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 06:08 ZAiNs wrote:On July 01 2014 06:01 SC2Toastie wrote:
Also, I'm getting kinda annoyed by all the one-line nay-sayers that ramble and ramble and ignore clear evidence all the time. It's a discussion forum, not a "T_T DONT NERF ME TERRAN OP LOOK AT MY STATS" shout contest. A lot of people pop in, say something random, clearly not having read the thread, and continue to ignore arguments made in favor of spouting random blablabla It's because no arguments have been made, just opinions being stated as fact with flimsy statistics to back them up. then how do you explain the absolute nosedive in terran performance did all the terrans magically get worse at the same time? Statistics, how do they work!?!?!
What are you even on about
4 terrans in the GSL. Do i need more statistics than that?
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On July 01 2014 06:29 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:27 ZAiNs wrote:On July 01 2014 06:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 06:08 ZAiNs wrote:On July 01 2014 06:01 SC2Toastie wrote:
Also, I'm getting kinda annoyed by all the one-line nay-sayers that ramble and ramble and ignore clear evidence all the time. It's a discussion forum, not a "T_T DONT NERF ME TERRAN OP LOOK AT MY STATS" shout contest. A lot of people pop in, say something random, clearly not having read the thread, and continue to ignore arguments made in favor of spouting random blablabla It's because no arguments have been made, just opinions being stated as fact with flimsy statistics to back them up. then how do you explain the absolute nosedive in terran performance did all the terrans magically get worse at the same time? Statistics, how do they work!?!?! What are you even on about 4 terrans in the GSL. Do i need more statistics than that?
Thanks for proving my point.
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On July 01 2014 06:07 Superbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 05:58 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:52 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:41 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 05:08 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 04:29 Ctone23 wrote:On July 01 2014 04:07 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 03:58 Melliflue wrote:
It is still TaeJa carrying the Terrans but the effect of the KeSPA switch players could be important. This makes we wonder where the KeSPA switch Terrans are. Only Bogus/INnoVation has had any success out of the KeSPA switch Terrans, and he lost form after moving to Acer. Maybe the rise of these KeSPA switch players and absence of KeSPA switch Terrans has contributed to the recent Terran problems.
Why there are not as many KeSPA switch Terrans could be down to balance, but could also be something about the way Brood War Terran plays compared to SC2 Terran that means the BW skillset for BW Terrans is not as helpful for playing Terran in SC2. TaeJa and Maru, the two often held up as the hopes for Terran to win a tournament, never played BW professionally.
The problem is that there are literally only two terrans that matter, Taeja and Maru, when all of the tier 2 has disappeared, you know there's a real problem Yeah, it's easy to see the face value and listen to Blizzard when they say "Terran has won X out of Y tournaments, so we think they are okay". If only two top-level Koreans can make moves in the GSL/Proleague/WCS, that should be worrying. Small tweaks here and there could be made to help Foreigner Terrans compete, at some level.(Faust made some cool suggestions earlier.) We see foreign Protoss and Zerg players seeing a limited amount of success, but nothing major. (After all, it is a Korean dominated sport.) INnoVation was ok in GSL, Flash is doing great in proleague, and the "tier 2 that disappeared" in Shaella post are Jjakji, Polt, Bbyong, MMA and ForGG. So its not as bad as you say. Also, can you tell me what is the limited amount of sucess for foreign protoss? Because i think protoss foreigners are doing as well as Major, Bunny, Happy and a few others. Inno didn't make it past RO16 The fact that there's only 4 FUCKING TERRANS in GSL code S should have clued you in, Flash didn't even make it in A big chunk of top terrans are not playing in Korea. A big chunk. You mean Bomber, ForGG, Jjakji, Heart, Alive, Yoda, MVP, MMA? These are the WCS NA/EU Terrans. Note, they all frequently drop maps or even series to foreign Zergs/Protosses and none of them has acchieved anything big in recent history. Care to explain the mystical Terrans you speak of? Exactly those guys. I agree terran is struggling recently, but i think the main factor for the lack of terrans in GSL is the absence of those names. And any korean can drop maps to foreigners. I just think there is too much drama when the winrates for terran are ok, specially after the recent patches. Excuse me? Firstly, is that list of players better than Keen, TY, Flash, Bbyong, Fantasy, Reality, Cure? Because those players went down to code B at the first instance. If you think that their absense in the main factor for the lack of terran, your disillusion. Secondly, the winrates aren't fine. 47% vs Protoss, 44% vs Zerg. While those numbers are worrying on their own, it gets worse. The amount of TvT is 1/4th of PvP, 1/5 of ZvZ. That means the population for Terran is horrifically low. In other words, THE VERY VERY BEST TERRANS IN THE WORLD, Maru and Taeja et al., play verse Tier 2/3/4 Zerg/Protosses and STILL have losing winrates. That is not slightly worrying. That is downright insulting and only indicative of a big flaw in game balance. As a last sidenote, yes, every Korean can drop maps to foreigners. It's just interesting that those koreans are usually Terrans and those foreigners are usually not. Just a curious incident, I suppose? Source? Aligulac. No, that means all the terrans together have losing winrates vs all toss and zerg together. And its around a 45% margin, thats not terrible and we had 2 buffs recently to help terran.
No, that means you completely do not understand the statistics and should stop discussion something you do not understand. goodday.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On July 01 2014 06:25 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:On July 01 2014 05:52 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:41 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 05:08 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 04:29 Ctone23 wrote:On July 01 2014 04:07 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 03:58 Melliflue wrote:
It is still TaeJa carrying the Terrans but the effect of the KeSPA switch players could be important. This makes we wonder where the KeSPA switch Terrans are. Only Bogus/INnoVation has had any success out of the KeSPA switch Terrans, and he lost form after moving to Acer. Maybe the rise of these KeSPA switch players and absence of KeSPA switch Terrans has contributed to the recent Terran problems.
Why there are not as many KeSPA switch Terrans could be down to balance, but could also be something about the way Brood War Terran plays compared to SC2 Terran that means the BW skillset for BW Terrans is not as helpful for playing Terran in SC2. TaeJa and Maru, the two often held up as the hopes for Terran to win a tournament, never played BW professionally.
The problem is that there are literally only two terrans that matter, Taeja and Maru, when all of the tier 2 has disappeared, you know there's a real problem Yeah, it's easy to see the face value and listen to Blizzard when they say "Terran has won X out of Y tournaments, so we think they are okay". If only two top-level Koreans can make moves in the GSL/Proleague/WCS, that should be worrying. Small tweaks here and there could be made to help Foreigner Terrans compete, at some level.(Faust made some cool suggestions earlier.) We see foreign Protoss and Zerg players seeing a limited amount of success, but nothing major. (After all, it is a Korean dominated sport.) INnoVation was ok in GSL, Flash is doing great in proleague, and the "tier 2 that disappeared" in Shaella post are Jjakji, Polt, Bbyong, MMA and ForGG. So its not as bad as you say. Also, can you tell me what is the limited amount of sucess for foreign protoss? Because i think protoss foreigners are doing as well as Major, Bunny, Happy and a few others. Inno didn't make it past RO16 The fact that there's only 4 FUCKING TERRANS in GSL code S should have clued you in, Flash didn't even make it in A big chunk of top terrans are not playing in Korea. A big chunk. You mean Bomber, ForGG, Jjakji, Heart, Alive, Yoda, MVP, MMA? These are the WCS NA/EU Terrans. Note, they all frequently drop maps or even series to foreign Zergs/Protosses and none of them has acchieved anything big in recent history. Care to explain the mystical Terrans you speak of? Exactly those guys. I agree terran is struggling recently, but i think the main factor for the lack of terrans in GSL is the absence of those names. And any korean can drop maps to foreigners. I just think there is too much drama when the winrates for terran are ok, specially after the recent patches. edit: Terran can be struggling a lot or a little, but there is too much drama anyway. Bomber is notoriously bad against Protoss. MMA has even worse problems against Protoss. He wouldn't do well either. ForGG? He couldn't beat a Zerg to save his life pre-hellbat patch. And even now I still don't think he can do it against the best. Jjakji was good, but went downhill in the last month. Heart has good TvZ I'll grant you that. But he hasnt fought the upper echelon of ZvT'ers and his TvP is suspect as well (beating Pigbaby is not much to go on either way). Alive is bad. Yoda is worse. MVP is even worse than that. I thought Bomber's best matchup was TvP? Historically it was that way, and aligulac seems to agree http://aligulac.com/players/12-Bomber/
Historically it was his best in WoL and during the SCV pull age where SCV pulls were good. But the numbers are just that numbers. They don't give context for the meta, the relevancy of more recent games, the players and form of play.
We can assume that Bomber was playing his best when he was the WCS Season 2 Finals winner. After that he lost in the ro32. He lost to soO (No surprise in retrospect). He lost to Super (A good P player that sometimes verges on great) and beat Yonghwa (One of the worst PL players). Beat Alicia (good) Tassadar (Close to the worst GSTL player of all time) and lost to Trap (great).
He beats Chinese protosses (No surprise when you consider scv pulls are great against Collosus/Phoenix players) and foreigners like Sase and Puck.
But against Koreans he then lost to sOs, herO, Parting, Rain, Arthur, Alicia (this time in a bo5). He beat Crank (Who is more of a coach than a player). He then lost to Has, beat Crank again and then beat Stork in Stork's first outing in a foreign lan against what is probably the second or third weirdest Terran player of all time.
In conclusion, I don't think his TvP can cut it in GSL.
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On July 01 2014 06:25 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:On July 01 2014 05:52 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:46 SC2Toastie wrote:On July 01 2014 05:41 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 05:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 05:08 Superbanana wrote:On July 01 2014 04:29 Ctone23 wrote:On July 01 2014 04:07 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 03:58 Melliflue wrote:
It is still TaeJa carrying the Terrans but the effect of the KeSPA switch players could be important. This makes we wonder where the KeSPA switch Terrans are. Only Bogus/INnoVation has had any success out of the KeSPA switch Terrans, and he lost form after moving to Acer. Maybe the rise of these KeSPA switch players and absence of KeSPA switch Terrans has contributed to the recent Terran problems.
Why there are not as many KeSPA switch Terrans could be down to balance, but could also be something about the way Brood War Terran plays compared to SC2 Terran that means the BW skillset for BW Terrans is not as helpful for playing Terran in SC2. TaeJa and Maru, the two often held up as the hopes for Terran to win a tournament, never played BW professionally.
The problem is that there are literally only two terrans that matter, Taeja and Maru, when all of the tier 2 has disappeared, you know there's a real problem Yeah, it's easy to see the face value and listen to Blizzard when they say "Terran has won X out of Y tournaments, so we think they are okay". If only two top-level Koreans can make moves in the GSL/Proleague/WCS, that should be worrying. Small tweaks here and there could be made to help Foreigner Terrans compete, at some level.(Faust made some cool suggestions earlier.) We see foreign Protoss and Zerg players seeing a limited amount of success, but nothing major. (After all, it is a Korean dominated sport.) INnoVation was ok in GSL, Flash is doing great in proleague, and the "tier 2 that disappeared" in Shaella post are Jjakji, Polt, Bbyong, MMA and ForGG. So its not as bad as you say. Also, can you tell me what is the limited amount of sucess for foreign protoss? Because i think protoss foreigners are doing as well as Major, Bunny, Happy and a few others. Inno didn't make it past RO16 The fact that there's only 4 FUCKING TERRANS in GSL code S should have clued you in, Flash didn't even make it in A big chunk of top terrans are not playing in Korea. A big chunk. You mean Bomber, ForGG, Jjakji, Heart, Alive, Yoda, MVP, MMA? These are the WCS NA/EU Terrans. Note, they all frequently drop maps or even series to foreign Zergs/Protosses and none of them has acchieved anything big in recent history. Care to explain the mystical Terrans you speak of? Exactly those guys. I agree terran is struggling recently, but i think the main factor for the lack of terrans in GSL is the absence of those names. And any korean can drop maps to foreigners. I just think there is too much drama when the winrates for terran are ok, specially after the recent patches. edit: Terran can be struggling a lot or a little, but there is too much drama anyway. Bomber is notoriously bad against Protoss. MMA has even worse problems against Protoss. He wouldn't do well either. ForGG? He couldn't beat a Zerg to save his life pre-hellbat patch. And even now I still don't think he can do it against the best. Jjakji was good, but went downhill in the last month. Heart has good TvZ I'll grant you that. But he hasnt fought the upper echelon of ZvT'ers and his TvP is suspect as well (beating Pigbaby is not much to go on either way). Alive is bad. Yoda is worse. MVP is even worse than that. I thought Bomber's best matchup was TvP? Historically it was that way, and aligulac seems to agree http://aligulac.com/players/12-Bomber/
Yea bombers a sick tvp. His recent trouble in tournaments is terran, he keeps losing to Polt and at HSC Dayshi got him
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Anyone who who doesn't think Terran is a weak race right now has never played as Terran on ladder..or watches pro games objectively.
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On July 01 2014 06:30 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:29 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 06:27 ZAiNs wrote:On July 01 2014 06:11 Shaella wrote:On July 01 2014 06:08 ZAiNs wrote:On July 01 2014 06:01 SC2Toastie wrote:
Also, I'm getting kinda annoyed by all the one-line nay-sayers that ramble and ramble and ignore clear evidence all the time. It's a discussion forum, not a "T_T DONT NERF ME TERRAN OP LOOK AT MY STATS" shout contest. A lot of people pop in, say something random, clearly not having read the thread, and continue to ignore arguments made in favor of spouting random blablabla It's because no arguments have been made, just opinions being stated as fact with flimsy statistics to back them up. then how do you explain the absolute nosedive in terran performance did all the terrans magically get worse at the same time? Statistics, how do they work!?!?! What are you even on about 4 terrans in the GSL. Do i need more statistics than that? Thanks for proving my point.
How is Terran failing to compete at the highest level in any reasonable number not Representative of how the race is struggling as a whole?
Terran are representing 1/8th of the GSL, when they're 1/3rd of the races.
Once again, the lack of the tier 2ish terrans in the GSL is incredibly disturbing in terms of where the race is balance wise, yes a player like Taeja can win against foreigners and tier 2 players, but i hesitate to think what that looks like against the top level Toss/Zerg in the GSL
As for the Terrans in america.. Trap is a decent GSL toss, and he made Polt look like a scrub.
But i'm sure you're just going to dismiss it as SEE FLIMSY STATISTICS AND OPINIONS
So instead of that, please explain to me why we have seen the tier 2 terrans disappear.
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On July 01 2014 06:35 Survivor61316 wrote:
Anyone who who doesn't think Terran is a weak race right now has never played as Terran on ladder..or watches pro games objectively.
Nowadays, you can watch entire tournaments objectively and come to the conclusion no terrans were invited 
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On July 01 2014 06:35 Survivor61316 wrote:
Anyone who who doesn't think Terran is a weak race right now has never played as Terran on ladder..or watches pro games objectively.
RIIIIGGGGHHHTTT. 10,000+ word post from the OP wasn't objective or factually based........
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On July 01 2014 06:37 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2014 06:35 Survivor61316 wrote:
Anyone who who doesn't think Terran is a weak race right now has never played as Terran on ladder..or watches pro games objectively. RIIIIGGGGHHHTTT. 10,000+ word post from the OP wasn't objective or factually based........
I don't understand the post :s...
It wasn't objective
It was factually based.
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EPT
