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4 Posts
 NrS.Welmu and  Acer.Nerchio were triumphant in the opening group of WCS Europe Premier League Season 2, becoming the first two players to advance to the Ro16. Their victories came at the cost of the elimination of Evil Geniuses' Stephano, who had surprised many by emerging from retirement to make an impressive qualifying run into the Premier League. Also eliminated was  EG.DeMusliM, who had successfully qualified for Premier League after switching regions from WCS America.
Season 1 quarterfinalist Welmu continued his good run of recent form by taking wins over Demuslim and Stephano to take first place in the group. While displaying strong play all around, Welmu's night was especially notable for a clever offensive wall/cannon rush on Habitation Station (via Reddit), which he later credited to the famously crafty Korean player TAiLS.
The second place spot went to Nerchio, who overcame Stephano 2-1 in the final series of the group. Not surprisingly for a Stephano ZvZ, the series included a swarm host stalemate – one that ended abruptly when Nerchio decided to GG out rather than suffer having to play through. The loss did not hurt Nerchio in the end, as he used roaches to overrun Stephano twice and clinch his spot in the Ro16.
Next game day:
Group B: Snute, BlinG, MaNa, Krr
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I can't help but think that the willingness to play swarm host v. swarm host when other people aren't willing to suffer through those types of games will be a big competitive advantage going forward.
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United States33125 Posts
On May 14 2014 09:23 Random_0 wrote:
I can't help but think that the willingness to play swarm host v. swarm host when other people aren't willing to suffer through those types of games will be a big competitive advantage going forward.
yes, there's something admirable about Stephano's willingness to suffer a little to gain an advatange
it's like if an MMA fighter went into fights reeking because he didn't bathe for three months. it's pretty gross, but you have to respect his dedication to winning :D
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I saw on the french stream live Stephano going "well done buddy bud" and leaving, so you can be sure he lost the game. The game you saw him win must have been another one he won today I guess? Last game of series 2 was on Waystation
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Shame Stephano didn't make it through, but I'm really happy Welmu did so good! Hoping he makes it far this time.
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I usually love these recap but this time I feel it didn't do the games justice... Stephano and Nerchio played twice in very entertaining series that included an amazing defense of a ling all-in by stephano, and in the swarm hosts game a really crazy comeback that would deserve at least a mention.
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United States97276 Posts
I wonder what the last game of the day was like. Too bad I didn't get to see it
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Just as everyone thought the EG Curse was gone........ LOL
Really glad to see Nerch and the Mu doing well.
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On May 14 2014 10:49 Shellshock wrote:
I wonder what the last game of the day was like. Too bad I didn't get to see it
Nobody did  . Do we know why they paused the game?
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Stephano was so close
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On May 14 2014 09:27 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 09:23 Random_0 wrote:
I can't help but think that the willingness to play swarm host v. swarm host when other people aren't willing to suffer through those types of games will be a big competitive advantage going forward. yes, there's something admirable about Stephano's willingness to suffer a little to gain an advatange it's like if an MMA fighter went into fights reeking because he didn't bathe for three months. it's pretty gross, but you have to respect his dedication to winning :D
Hahaha, love the example.
I guess it's "fair" either way (not against any specific rule, that is) :S
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Ha ha ha ha ha
What a hoot
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He can't keep falling back on "is ok if I lose, I'm retired"
You're competing in European premier League... You're not retired...
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Got little sleep so I could watch my EG guys dissapoint
Stephano was damn close though. Congrats to Welmu and Nerchio. Welmu to be best foreign protoss of 2014 anyone?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 14 2014 11:39 Bagration wrote:Ha ha ha ha ha What a hoot
Poor Demuslim, getting rekt by his own team.
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Haha I love the beef. Grats to Nerchio and Welmu
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Grats to Nerchio who can go to school and win games. Grats To Stephano for losing games and having Excuses
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On May 14 2014 10:45 Elitios wrote:
I usually love these recap but this time I feel it didn't do the games justice... Stephano and Nerchio played twice in very entertaining series that included an amazing defense of a ling all-in by stephano, and in the swarm hosts game a really crazy comeback that would deserve at least a mention.
I completely totally agree. Describing it as "swarm host stalemate" misleads the reader to believe it was a locust vs locust snooze fest, when really the game was quite the opposite!
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Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent.
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While Nerchio has been a long time Bm-er and instigator, I don't understand all the stephano support. He's always streaming and was in the LSC as well as premier league, which doesn't strike me as retired.
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On May 14 2014 09:27 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 09:23 Random_0 wrote:
I can't help but think that the willingness to play swarm host v. swarm host when other people aren't willing to suffer through those types of games will be a big competitive advantage going forward. yes, there's something admirable about Stephano's willingness to suffer a little to gain an advatange it's like if an MMA fighter went into fights reeking because he didn't bathe for three months. it's pretty gross, but you have to respect his dedication to winning :D
No, I don't think Stephano is suffering in those games. I think he gets a rationalized enjoyment of watching his opponent try to figure out how to wade through waves of disposable units. It's both sick yet understandable, given his disdain of swarm hosts.
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On May 14 2014 12:55 Bagration wrote:Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent.
yea i agree. just because you go to school doesnt mean youre not a pro gamer. If you practice and play as many tournaments as you can youre still a pro. Polt goes to school full time as well. No one says hes a retired player.
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These retired excuses definitely have to stop, Nerchio looked pretty good though.
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Nerchio so haughty with those tweets if he's serious.
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Retired or not, the risk of SH stalemates in Ro16 just got severely reduced. I'm happy for that. 
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The Stephano and Welmu series was entertaining, too bad that's all I got to see. =(
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Happy Nerchio made it he deserved it. Stephano playstyle is so boring (as a watcher, I dont play the game anymore)
Nice ragetweet by Stephano btw ~
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I'm just going to throw out the fact that Welmu is also a full time student... Grats to Nerchio and Welmu :D
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Bming on twitter after winning a close serie is not classy at all from Nerchio. Maybe he was angry because he just lost the last bo3 to a retired player. This final bo3 could have gone either way, my guess is Nerchio can't stand the fact that even with few practice, stephano is really close to his level.
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On May 14 2014 16:23 klup wrote:
Bming on twitter after winning a close serie is not classy at all from Nerchio. Maybe he was angry because he just lost the last bo3 to a retired player. This final bo3 could have gone either way, my guess is Nerchio can't stand the fact that even with few practice, stephano is really close to his level.
when was nerchio ever classy
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That TAiLS cannon rush by Welmu on Habitation Station was awesome (vod). Stephano said "Never saw that coming" at the end, and I don't think many did either.
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On May 14 2014 12:55 Bagration wrote:Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent.
Hasn't this always been Stephano's style? Claim he never practices and wins through his sheer genis, but loses because he didn't really bother to practice for the game...
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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I find it funny that Stephano uses the ''retired'' excuse, when the player who topped the group is also a full time student. :D Gratz Welmu and Nerchio, well deserved wins! ^^
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Nerchio acting with little dignity, like usual, harassing the loser on twitter after he has won. Bad taste. He conveniently forgets to mention that he at first loses 1-2 to Stephano, and then barely wins 2-1 in the second series.
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Stephano with the BM, Nerchio with the BM, EG with the BM, i can safely say they are having a great time xD
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As I wrote on reddit:
Fun with some smack talk, and really, even I get pissed when I watch Stephano games so don't want to know how it feel to play him. Not so much for his playstyle (even if SH are boring) but for everything around it.
All the talk about "retired" and "don't play much" does that if you don't beat him you suck and if Stephano beat you he's awesome. It don't make it better that the caster have to mention it every damn time Stephano play. They always start with "He is so damn good, he play like 3 games every year, so badass".
Sure he may play less then others, but who knows? He maybe just play on other accounts? Just feel its sad they have to push it in our face every time and make the other player look like trash if they lose.
Even in this thread we see people going "Nerchio was almost beaten by a retired player". Such a stupid thing to say. Evil Geniuses tweet are even more sad. So everyone that is beaten by stephano should feel bad about themself? How should DeMusliM feel that got last in the group then (and he is even part of Evil Geniuses)?
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Haha, at least they have some sense of humor! :D
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Stephano as always + with his swarmhost strat even more retarded. But to be honest Nerchio is a bm player too..
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This is a lose(r) - lose(r) situation imo. Nerchio for rubbing it in and Stephano/ EG for being provoked so easily and using the retired excuse..
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On May 14 2014 12:25 GranDGranT wrote:
Grats to Nerchio who can go to school and win games. Grats To Stephano for losing games and having Excuses
Word up. Haha Nerchio  , I dig these pokes.
I found EG's tweet to be quite boring (lame) though, if I may be so bold.
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Poland3748 Posts
Stephano is "retired". Both Nerchio and Welmu are students as well. I think only DeMusliM is full time pro in this group...?
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On May 14 2014 17:42 SatedSC2 wrote:Hopefully Nerchio will be docked some prize money for that based on the conduct rules, but I doubt it will happen. I don't think they specifically cover social media.
Nerchio docked prize money ? Why is that ? He didn't use any "idiots" or retired excuse as opposed to Stephano.
I do not understand why do people still buy that " o hai, i stephano, i play 1 game per year, u bad for lose to me, i super talent prodigy for winning every single game..."
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Poland3748 Posts
people maybe don't buy it, but Stephano was for a long time golden boy of foreign scene - bringing both results and entertainment but unlike NaNiwa he wasnt pissing half the scene around every half a year. I feel like the scene desperately needs his replacament and there's nobody around. "retired" Stephano is still better than no Stephano.
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United States33125 Posts
On May 14 2014 18:57 inermis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 17:42 SatedSC2 wrote:Hopefully Nerchio will be docked some prize money for that based on the conduct rules, but I doubt it will happen. I don't think they specifically cover social media. Nerchio docked prize money ? Why is that ? He didn't use any "idiots" or retired excuse as opposed to Stephano. I do not understand why do people still buy that " o hai, i stephano, i play 1 game per year, u bad for lose to me, i super talent prodigy for winning every single game..."
people chat in game all the time and no one gets penalized for that
the rules are there but I doubt anyone will be fined by the end of the year
that said, better to have rules than no rules -_-~
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On May 14 2014 18:57 inermis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 17:42 SatedSC2 wrote:Hopefully Nerchio will be docked some prize money for that based on the conduct rules, but I doubt it will happen. I don't think they specifically cover social media. Nerchio docked prize money ? Why is that ? He didn't use any "idiots" or retired excuse as opposed to Stephano. I do not understand why do people still buy that " o hai, i stephano, i play 1 game per year, u bad for lose to me, i super talent prodigy for winning every single game..."
The Stephano hate gets so random at times, it almost makes me want to like him :/
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I hoped that Nerchio would copy the play Stephano does, like he sometimes does with opponents that play annoying in his eyes and that they get an advantage that way, because others try to avoid it and set themself behind. But guess he didn't need to.
to bad the march of the swarmhosts has ended.
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It's funny how people don't understand what retired mean!
You don't get to decide when a player is retired or isn't, he does. And the fact that he chooses to keep playing even when he is retired doesn't make his retirement a "fake".
Being a professionnal at something means that you dedicate enough of your time to it, and that you consider it to be the career path you are currently pursuing.
They might both (or all 3 since it seems to be Welmu's case too) go to school but only one doesn't actively seeks to live from his SC2 performances. And by that I don't mean to belittle Nerchio's play, he did great. But he did, in fact as a professional player, beat a retired player. The fact hat this retired player used to be considered as a prodigy or whatever we may want to call him is not relevant in him being a professional or a retired pro-gamer. The fact that Nerchio goes to school isn't relevant either.
As for those tweets, they're all grown ups, and they both enjoy trolling/flaming on those type of platforms. So I wouldn't read to much into it, just some casual taunting. But EG's point stands. Nerchio did in fact almost lose to a "retired player".
Coz that's what Stephano is and there aren't multiple definitions of the word "retired" and it's NOT open to interpretation. If you make a living (or try to) of an activity that takes most of your time: your a professionnal, if not, you're not a professional and you can be considered "retired" if you used to do so. Just open a dictionnary if you doubt that ...
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Usually root for Stephano, but couldn't really root for somebody that calls himself retired. I would rather like to see somebody win that is passionate about the game, so I'm glad he is out.
I would love to see the old Stephano back, but not this halfhearted attempt.
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Serious lol at that Stephano tweet. What a sore loser. Thank goodness we won't have to sit through any more of his boring games this season. Hopefully he stays retired next season.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 14 2014 16:23 klup wrote:
Bming on twitter after winning a close serie is not classy at all from Nerchio. Maybe he was angry because he just lost the last bo3 to a retired player. This final bo3 could have gone either way, my guess is Nerchio can't stand the fact that even with few practice, stephano is really close to his level.
Will you people please stop hating on Demuslim.
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On May 14 2014 12:55 Bagration wrote:Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent.
Retired players don't play. Stephano is not retired.
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On May 14 2014 14:07 for_the_swarm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 12:55 Bagration wrote:Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent. yea i agree. just because you go to school doesnt mean youre not a pro gamer. If you practice and play as many tournaments as you can youre still a pro. Polt goes to school full time as well. No one says hes a retired player.
except stephano casually played in a few tournaments during his study break, and played sc2 prior to that very casually. heck, even now he plays more casual than serious.
i think it's safe to say that nerchio shouldn't act like that when almost losing to a guy who hasn't played seriously in months.
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On May 14 2014 21:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 12:55 Bagration wrote:Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent. Retired players don't play. Stephano is not retired.
Open a dictionnary that's not what retired means!
You can play a game or compete in a discipline without it being your professionnal orientation!
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(mistake double post, sorry)
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On May 14 2014 22:34 Emix_Squall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 21:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 14 2014 12:55 Bagration wrote:Isn't Nerchio a part time progamer as well since he's still in school? Anyways, the retirement thing is pretty convenient nowadays: If you play and lose, you can control expectations by claiming that you are retired. But if you win, you can claim that you are winning based on pure talent. Retired players don't play. Stephano is not retired. Open a dictionnary that's not what retired means!
having left one's job and ceased to work
As he was/is participating in an official tournament (this is what work is for a player) he is no longer in retirement.
"You can play a game or compete in a discipline without it being your professionnal orientation!"
He is making money so it's not a hobby. You can have multiple professions at ones to. He is no longer retired if he competes and trains (as he obviously does)
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Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
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You know, the correct answer is not "let me semantically explain that he can play while retired and still be retired". The correct answer is "After all the things you have seen and experienced in this game, this is the problem you focus on?"
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On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol).
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ahh stephano so close
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On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol).
Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games.
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On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol).
This is why i write about the silliness of calling him retired. It's nothing but a way to keep pressure of and, unfortunately, make his opponents look bad.
shameful display
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On May 14 2014 23:06 johnbongham wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol). Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games.
so... you hate people who try to find strategies that work? or only when they involve a unit you don't like? are you the grand overseer of what builds are considered abusive?
if a strategy is broken then it's on blizzard to fix it. there's no reason not to do things that work. it enrages me that protoss can still make pylon wall cannon rushes work (against jaedong, no less), but it's not the players' fault for doing it...
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On May 14 2014 23:11 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 23:06 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol). Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games. so... you hate people who try to find strategies that work? or only when they involve a unit you don't like? are you the grand overseer of what builds are considered abusive? if a strategy is broken then it's on blizzard to fix it. there's no reason not to do things that work. it enrages me that protoss can still make pylon wall cannon rushes work (against jaedong, no less), but it's not the players' fault for doing it...
Did I say that? I said Stephano has always been known as somebody who willl do the same build over and over again because he found a way to abuse it to the fullest extent. Thats how he won all his prize money initially. Once it became obvious he would have to go back to the drawing board along with the rest of sc2 players for HOTS, he decided to retire. Now that he has once again found something he believes he can use to get to the top, he is back and making a pathetic display of sportsman and showmanship. Yes, it is partially blizzards fault, and no, I dont blame him for doing it, but yes, I can say it is lame and boring and laugh when he fails and when other players call him out or talk shit to him. I dont like Nerchio at all but you better believe I was rooting for him to stomp stephano's boring swarmhost build.
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Stephano and retierment,two words that will never go together. Even if he says he's retierd most of people here know that his trail in sc2 was just to big as a foreigner,that he can just simply state i'm retierd.
Even if he's retierd,he's not a average personallity,you can't go big and then just tell ok i'm out,no dude that never happens,once you go big,there is no a simple comeback.
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Displaying pretty clearly that your process is "I hate Stephano, therefore let me find something to shit talk him", instead of "wow this is an outrageous thing, let me shit talk Stephano because of it." Then again it should have been obvious to everyone from the start since it's probably the lamest *controversy* in the history of internet.
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On May 14 2014 23:06 johnbongham wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol). Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games.
Thanks for the brainless bashing! Part of your previous message kind of made sense (he still earns a salary from EG, I guess that's a part I didn't consider,) but you just discredited yourself with that.
On May 14 2014 23:09 Sapphire.lux wrote:
This is why i write about the silliness of calling him retired. It's nothing but a way to keep pressure of and, unfortunately, make his opponents look bad.
shameful display
And that's why I believe calling him "retired" isn't about what you feel you should call someone but really about where his priorities are at. The same way some people may want to call him "retired" to shame whoever his opponents are/were, some want to call him "not retired" to feel better for his opponents. But the fact is, he plays a game (sure at a top level but that's not relevant), and that's not what he earns his living from anymore (I would assume).
And whatever interpretation people want to make of him defeating or losing to X or Y doesn't change that.
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Poland3748 Posts
On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
You're so wrong. They say he's out of retirmenet because he is out of retirmenet:
He is playing competitevely ergo he is not retired. That's it.
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On May 14 2014 11:52 Radicalness wrote:Got little sleep so I could watch my EG guys dissapoint Stephano was damn close though. Congrats to Welmu and Nerchio. Welmu to be best foreign protoss of 2014 anyone?
I'd say that he has been clearly the best foreigner protoss of 2014 so far and unless some medical issue suddenly comes up or his motivation drops a lot I can't see it changing in the next 7.5 months
The whole bm thing with the zergs is silly, but we need the constant drama river flowing so I don't mind.
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On May 14 2014 23:50 Emix_Squall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 23:06 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol). Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games. Thanks for the brainless bashing! Part of your previous message kind of made sense (he still earns a salary from EG, I guess that's a part I didn't consider,) but you just discredited yourself with that. Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 23:09 Sapphire.lux wrote:
This is why i write about the silliness of calling him retired. It's nothing but a way to keep pressure of and, unfortunately, make his opponents look bad.
shameful display And that's why I believe calling him "retired" isn't about what you feel you should call someone but really about where his priorities are at. The same way some people may want to call him "retired" to shame whoever his opponents are/were, some want to call him "not retired" to feel better for his opponents. But the fact is, he plays a game (sure at a top level but that's not relevant), and that's not what he earns his living from anymore (I would assume). And whatever interpretation people want to make of him defeating or losing to X or Y doesn't change that.
Me thinks you have a horse in this race and your not being entirely objective here. It's not a matter of interpretation as you make it sound, he is either active or retired. It's simple.
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On May 15 2014 00:18 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 23:50 Emix_Squall wrote:On May 14 2014 23:06 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol). Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games. Thanks for the brainless bashing! Part of your previous message kind of made sense (he still earns a salary from EG, I guess that's a part I didn't consider,) but you just discredited yourself with that. On May 14 2014 23:09 Sapphire.lux wrote:
This is why i write about the silliness of calling him retired. It's nothing but a way to keep pressure of and, unfortunately, make his opponents look bad.
shameful display And that's why I believe calling him "retired" isn't about what you feel you should call someone but really about where his priorities are at. The same way some people may want to call him "retired" to shame whoever his opponents are/were, some want to call him "not retired" to feel better for his opponents. But the fact is, he plays a game (sure at a top level but that's not relevant), and that's not what he earns his living from anymore (I would assume). And whatever interpretation people want to make of him defeating or losing to X or Y doesn't change that. Me thinks you have a horse in this race and your not being entirely objective here. It's not a matter of interpretation as you make it sound, he is either active or retired. It's simple.
I honestly stopped following most SC2 events lately, so I really can't say anything about any of these players curent level of play > ergo I honestly have no horse in that race. And I agree with you, it is not a matter of interpretation (like I said multiple times in this thread). But nevermind, The Oxford definition someone just linked proves me wrong as it precisely describe the case of professionnal athletes, and includes the competition element in its definition.
My idea was mostly based on the fact that professionnal athletes aren't only defined by the competing part of their activity, but it seems to be what 's taken into account here. I'm not a native english speaker but I assume Oxford dictionary is a good reference so there's nothing for me to add if their definition goes against my point. I was wrong!
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On May 14 2014 09:27 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 09:23 Random_0 wrote:
I can't help but think that the willingness to play swarm host v. swarm host when other people aren't willing to suffer through those types of games will be a big competitive advantage going forward. yes, there's something admirable about Stephano's willingness to suffer a little to gain an advatange it's like if an MMA fighter went into fights reeking because he didn't bathe for three months. it's pretty gross, but you have to respect his dedication to winning :D
So playing against Swarmhosts is equivalent to fighting someone who hasn't bathed in three months?
That is perhaps the most damning criticism of Blizzard's design choices I've ever heard. You've got more clout that most around here, maybe Blizzard will listen.
Well done.
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On May 15 2014 00:28 Emix_Squall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2014 00:18 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 14 2014 23:50 Emix_Squall wrote:On May 14 2014 23:06 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 23:02 johnbongham wrote:On May 14 2014 22:45 Emix_Squall wrote:
Except he is not a " professional player" anymore as you call him, he retired ... that's the whole point. Playing a game doesn't mean your professionnal at it, being able to compete in it doesn't either, being professionnal at something is where a state of mind meets practical needs. He doesn't need the money of these tournaments to live, and he OBVIOSULY doesn't have the state of mind of a pro.
The only reason people want to call him a "pro" and say he's out of retirement is to feel better about their favorite players. Coz it hurts when you say "yeah I support that dude but he lost to a retired player".
And I'm not supporting Stephano specifically here, I don't even like the playstyle he displayed lately. But you can't just interprete things and change words to fit your needs ...
Um lets see. He is still currently employed by a professional gaming organization as a professional starcraft 2 player. He competes in the highest level of professional competition with other professional players for real money. Maybe if he just sat at home and streamed ladder you could make a realistic case for him still being retired, but that is not the case and he is not retired. Either way, being 'retired' or not is not an excuse and its not a reason to diminish the victories of the players who defeat him, especially when it is 100% clear he is not retired (although I bet hes thinking about it now lol). Edit: Also, is it any surprise we see Stephano come out of retirement to compete as soon as he believes he has found a strategy that he can abuse all the way to big victories and big prize money? Stephano has always been about abusing certain units and builds with a very high win %. It has been such a relief to see him fail miserably in his attempt to abuse his way to the top and in the process abuse the tournament organizers, staff, and spectators who have sit through his games. Thanks for the brainless bashing! Part of your previous message kind of made sense (he still earns a salary from EG, I guess that's a part I didn't consider,) but you just discredited yourself with that. On May 14 2014 23:09 Sapphire.lux wrote:
This is why i write about the silliness of calling him retired. It's nothing but a way to keep pressure of and, unfortunately, make his opponents look bad.
shameful display And that's why I believe calling him "retired" isn't about what you feel you should call someone but really about where his priorities are at. The same way some people may want to call him "retired" to shame whoever his opponents are/were, some want to call him "not retired" to feel better for his opponents. But the fact is, he plays a game (sure at a top level but that's not relevant), and that's not what he earns his living from anymore (I would assume). And whatever interpretation people want to make of him defeating or losing to X or Y doesn't change that. Me thinks you have a horse in this race and your not being entirely objective here. It's not a matter of interpretation as you make it sound, he is either active or retired. It's simple. I honestly stopped following most SC2 events lately, so I really can't say anything about any of these players curent level of play > ergo I honestly have no horse in that race. And I agree with you, it is not a matter of interpretation (like I said multiple times in this thread). But nevermind, The Oxford definition someone just linked proves me wrong as it precisely describe the case of professionnal athletes, and includes the competition element in its definition. My idea was mostly based on the fact that professionnal athletes aren't only defined by the competing part of their activity, but it seems to be what 's taken into account here. I'm not a native english speaker but I assume Oxford dictionary is a good reference so there's nothing for me to add if their definition goes against my point. I was wrong!
Fair enough! I often miss use english words to so i feel you :p
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On May 14 2014 21:31 Emix_Squall wrote:
It's funny how people don't understand what retired mean!
You don't get to decide when a player is retired or isn't, he does. And the fact that he chooses to keep playing even when he is retired doesn't make his retirement a "fake".
Being a professionnal at something means that you dedicate enough of your time to it, and that you consider it to be the career path you are currently pursuing.
They might both (or all 3 since it seems to be Welmu's case too) go to school but only one doesn't actively seeks to live from his SC2 performances. And by that I don't mean to belittle Nerchio's play, he did great. But he did, in fact as a professional player, beat a retired player. The fact hat this retired player used to be considered as a prodigy or whatever we may want to call him is not relevant in him being a professional or a retired pro-gamer. The fact that Nerchio goes to school isn't relevant either.
As for those tweets, they're all grown ups, and they both enjoy trolling/flaming on those type of platforms. So I wouldn't read to much into it, just some casual taunting. But EG's point stands. Nerchio did in fact almost lose to a "retired player".
Coz that's what Stephano is and there aren't multiple definitions of the word "retired" and it's NOT open to interpretation. If you make a living (or try to) of an activity that takes most of your time: your a professionnal, if not, you're not a professional and you can be considered "retired" if you used to do so. Just open a dictionnary if you doubt that ...
Well by that logic, Polt is retired. So is Welmu. Oh, and Nerchio too, because they are all going to school and are full time at that and part time at SC2. You cant put two people who are in IDENTICAL POSITIONS and claim one is retired and the other is not. Stephano is trying to make money off his SC2 performances, while also going to school, which is the exact same thing Nerchio is trying to do and Welmu is trying to do.
EDIT; My bad, he already went full circle on his comment.
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DeMuslim just too weak. Good Nerchio rekt Stephano too, I don't want to watch more sh:s.
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Happy for Welmu.
I guess it's fine that Nerchio advanced but he has virtually no chance of accomplishing anything.
The fact that everyone is arguing over the definition of retired is also pretty amusing to me.
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It was a good day, Welmu with the TAiLS build and some good late-game macro and Nerchio saving us from more SHbs.
Also Polt #1 retired player in the world!
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On May 14 2014 23:41 johnbongham wrote:Did I say that? I said Stephano has always been known as somebody who willl do the same build over and over again because he found a way to abuse it to the fullest extent. Thats how he won all his prize money initially.
you know who this statement makes me think of too? innovation
Once it became obvious he would have to go back to the drawing board along with the rest of sc2 players for HOTS, he decided to retire. Now that he has once again found something he believes he can use to get to the top, he is back and making a pathetic display of sportsman and showmanship.
who cares? he's just a dude playing computer games. if he's good enough to do things that work and win games, he has every right to play whenever he wants for whatever reason
Yes, it is partially blizzards fault, and no, I dont blame him for doing it, but yes, I can say it is lame and boring and laugh when he fails and when other players call him out or talk shit to him. I dont like Nerchio at all but you better believe I was rooting for him to stomp stephano's boring swarmhost build.
well that's fair enough. you can root against anyone you want. but i still think your reasoning is silly
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So many Stephano haters....sheesh.
Sure, he's not a perfect human being but the scene is better when he's playing, "retired" or not.
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I just love how Stephano can curse and smacktalk, and accompany that with a simple "cheers" at the end, lol 
I also liked his personality, though the problem now is - even after not playing his own best - he still (in his own mind) acts as if he is
The results "achieved" probably "justify" him that, but still - it's not cool (even for someone like him) and it's really unprofessional, and perhaps even disrespectful towards the opponents.. No-one is hating Stephano, but think a lot (even me included) dislike his "disrespect" towards the competition.. And it's not even a character or "ego" or a "perfectionist" thing, instead - it's just because he now has the "perfect excuse" to do so, which is yah - disrespectful IMO
Still gotta admit - was refreshing to see a bit of him at least.. Hopefully we get to see him again (only with a better dedication and a bit more trolling, but yah - a bit better dedication this time)
Didn't watch today's games though, but if I decide to - hopefully I don't get bored .. I know - spoilers, and yada yada, but hey - I'm retired too (having a full time job)..
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It remembers so many old LR when Stephano play, the fans vs antifans which would turn the thread in full retared mod.
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People keep saying that Stephano is not retired, but he is; he focuses on his university full time (studying engineering) and has had a long break recently, so he has been playing alot. He only plays when he streams, and he hasn't been streaming all too often.
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@ Soke: Your statement kinda contradicts your signature. madfrog and mondragon retired. stephano made a pause for 6 months, than he came back. in my eyes thats not retirement.
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United States97276 Posts
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
They should buff Swarmhosts.
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Poland3748 Posts
On May 15 2014 07:57 Soke wrote:
People keep saying that Stephano is not retired, but he is; he focuses on his university full time (studying engineering) and has had a long break recently, so he has been playing alot. He only plays when he streams, and he hasn't been streaming all too often.
Nerchio is studying full time as well, although longer than Stephano. He is also less active than he used to be.
I said that before - by very definition of player is competing be is not retired. He is just potentially not being very dedicated.
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You can say everything you want about Stephano, It has been a long time since we saw that much people watching WCS europe ro32. Nerchio can flame all he wants, I don't think he would ever bring that much viewer than Stephano does.
We need people like Stephano in the SC2 landscape because he is entertaining and even if he is now a "shadow of foreigner hope" he is still a better hope than any actual foreigner except maybe Vortix.
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lol gotta love "my countrymen player is better than yours countrymen player" discussions...
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So much hate here... Almost like Stephano would have cheesed is way to the RO16... Wait, he's not the one that did this!
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On May 15 2014 07:57 Soke wrote:
People keep saying that Stephano is not retired, but he is; he focuses on his university full time (studying engineering) and has had a long break recently, so he has been playing alot. He only plays when he streams, and he hasn't been streaming all too often.
He played a lot in Jan/Feb, not recently.
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Where is your Swarmhostgod now
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darn, i wish at least one EG player made it through.
anyway, in reference to the tweets...true champs don't need to rub it into the loser's face after a win, because...well they're used to winning and can do so with pride and humility. Usually players that aren't used to winning or being at the tippy top of the competition, will act like this...you see it in sports too.
standard stuff, gl to welmu though. i'm really impressed with this guy for the past year and a half.
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I might be biased as a Nerchio fan and a Pole, but for me there is a huge gap between a malicious remark and calling somebody an idiot. Nerchio's tweet was unnecessary, that's for sure. But replying with "you idiot" is in my eyes more offensive and more unacceptable.
Not to mention that Nerchio's remark was quite an accurate hint at the fact that Stephano keeps on about being retired and in school while at the same time signing up with a team [see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/450515-stephano-joins-meltdown-esports-team ].
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So retired that he got signed by Meltdown eSports, right.
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Sad to see Stephano go down like that but Welmu and Nerchio were just better. Hope to see Stephano on tournaments more often!
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On May 16 2014 05:04 Ufnal wrote:
I might be biased as a Nerchio fan and a Pole, but for me there is a huge gap between a malicious remark and calling somebody an idiot. Nerchio's tweet was unnecessary, that's for sure. But replying with "you idiot" is in my eyes more offensive and more unacceptable.
How about calling for someone to retire during a streamed game?
(in essence: yeah you're biased)
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2014/Europe_1/euofficial.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2014/Europe_2/ro32groupa.png)
