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Keep "my game is better than yours"-slapfights out of this. If the discussion devolves into simple bashing, this thread will be closed. |
On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about.
Sorry.
A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space.
Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport.
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On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport.
It is a sport when you got 2 or more people competing. also why wouldn't heartstone be an e-sport if it has 2+ million views.
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On June 05 2014 18:35 sabas123 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. It is a sport when you got 2 or more people competing. also why wouldn't heartstone be an e-sport if it has 2+ million views.
how 2 ppl competing is sport ? if i compete with you in who bids higher at an auction we do sport ?
on topic : i think ppl will always be interested in rts and the enhanced version of rise of nation might bring some more viewers/players.
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On June 05 2014 10:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 09:21 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 07:29 Kranyum wrote:
I enjoy strategy games but I adore MOBAs. That being said I completely hate Starcraft II (I believe it's a pretty badly made game - unfun for most part). From the RTS genre I like Brood War, Warcraft III (my favorite), Age of Mythology and CnC3 Kane's Wrath.
Problems of RTS are as following:
- too much wasted time / repetitive bullshit that can lose you the game in 90% of the situations (like build orders, economy management, units dying too fast when you are not looking)
- this makes the game too hard / stressful / tyring for a person looking to have fun
Problems of Stacraft II in particular:
- too focused on one big battle / deathballs
- fights are too quick game is too fast
Overall RTSs are too hard. In 2010 decade, people are already good at most games, resources are online out-there, one average intelligent player will understand the basics quickly and end up to a point where he needs to be competitive. And that's where the problematic of APM, build orders, macro and all that stuff becomes relevant way to fast.
In 1990s nobody knew/ cared about APM and stuff, eveyrone just made tanks / carriers / whatever fun units and fought with them and the strategy part came from hiding that base, or building that unit or that counter. It never came in the form of "I can manage my economy better than you". Again this, speaking from the masses point of view. What's appealing to a casual player in an RTS is building multiple armies and fighting with them. What's not fun is when masses realize that RTSs arent' actually about the fights but mostly about how to optimally build the armies.
Mobas are about the fights however. They just give that feeling of having fun, doing whatever and still being next to competitive. I'm sure as hell not dendi, but I can pick a hero, hit some creeps, get an item and own. And if I lose, then it's a gradual game, where I put up a fight and not lose because I mis-microed my zerglings into tanks because I had to inject my hatchery... Also, a session of Moba gaming won't damage your wrists/hands/eyes as much as RTS will.
That's my opinion on why RTSs are dissapearing.
Are you sure you played broodwar? It sounds like you would've hated it. To be honest, this style of rts has never been that popular outside of Korea. Yeah it got big initially after sc2 release due to hype, but this type of game isn't for everyone. Its a niche market. I love base building and econ management, I get why others would find it frustrating/time wasting. But thats fine, you play your game and I'll play mine, everyone's happy. Nah, moneymaps and fastestmap ever were popular for a reason, and it wasn't due to the good design of BW units nor their microbility. It was easy econ, a single defensive choke, no need to expand, and more room than you'll ever need for infrastructure. They even put the mineral patch right next to the command center to reduce mining travel time to 0. That is what the majority of BW fans played more than any other map--if you looked at Bnet 1.0 that is. That is the "heyday" of early 2000's RTS.
Dude I played the shit out of those maps, and I hated having to fucking babysit every worker in vanilla, but now I love it. So your 100% right, people who like that stuff are a small minority, and always have been. Tbh this is fine with me, I don't expect this type of game to be super popular. I DO expect it to be popular as an esport, since watching Losira is a spectacle in itself. This is the advantage I think a game like starcraft has over a moba, its easier to understand and watch for someone who doesn't play games.
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On June 05 2014 18:55 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 18:35 sabas123 wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. It is a sport when you got 2 or more people competing. also why wouldn't heartstone be an e-sport if it has 2+ million views. how 2 ppl competing is sport ? if i compete with you in who bids higher at an auction we do sport ? on topic : i think ppl will always be interested in rts and the enhanced version of rise of nation might bring some more viewers/players.
Yes, that would also be a sport. Per wikipedia, the etymology of the word sport:
"Sport" comes from the Old French desport meaning "leisure", with the oldest definition in English from around 1300 being "anything humans find amusing or entertaining".
Other meanings include gambling and events staged for the purpose of gambling; hunting; and games and diversions, including ones that require exercise. Roget's defines the noun sport as an "activity engaged in for relaxation and amusement" with synonyms including diversion and recreation.
It is only recently that we attached the requirement of physical activity to sporting.
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On June 05 2014 22:34 Green_25 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 10:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 05 2014 09:21 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 07:29 Kranyum wrote:
I enjoy strategy games but I adore MOBAs. That being said I completely hate Starcraft II (I believe it's a pretty badly made game - unfun for most part). From the RTS genre I like Brood War, Warcraft III (my favorite), Age of Mythology and CnC3 Kane's Wrath.
Problems of RTS are as following:
- too much wasted time / repetitive bullshit that can lose you the game in 90% of the situations (like build orders, economy management, units dying too fast when you are not looking)
- this makes the game too hard / stressful / tyring for a person looking to have fun
Problems of Stacraft II in particular:
- too focused on one big battle / deathballs
- fights are too quick game is too fast
Overall RTSs are too hard. In 2010 decade, people are already good at most games, resources are online out-there, one average intelligent player will understand the basics quickly and end up to a point where he needs to be competitive. And that's where the problematic of APM, build orders, macro and all that stuff becomes relevant way to fast.
In 1990s nobody knew/ cared about APM and stuff, eveyrone just made tanks / carriers / whatever fun units and fought with them and the strategy part came from hiding that base, or building that unit or that counter. It never came in the form of "I can manage my economy better than you". Again this, speaking from the masses point of view. What's appealing to a casual player in an RTS is building multiple armies and fighting with them. What's not fun is when masses realize that RTSs arent' actually about the fights but mostly about how to optimally build the armies.
Mobas are about the fights however. They just give that feeling of having fun, doing whatever and still being next to competitive. I'm sure as hell not dendi, but I can pick a hero, hit some creeps, get an item and own. And if I lose, then it's a gradual game, where I put up a fight and not lose because I mis-microed my zerglings into tanks because I had to inject my hatchery... Also, a session of Moba gaming won't damage your wrists/hands/eyes as much as RTS will.
That's my opinion on why RTSs are dissapearing.
Are you sure you played broodwar? It sounds like you would've hated it. To be honest, this style of rts has never been that popular outside of Korea. Yeah it got big initially after sc2 release due to hype, but this type of game isn't for everyone. Its a niche market. I love base building and econ management, I get why others would find it frustrating/time wasting. But thats fine, you play your game and I'll play mine, everyone's happy. Nah, moneymaps and fastestmap ever were popular for a reason, and it wasn't due to the good design of BW units nor their microbility. It was easy econ, a single defensive choke, no need to expand, and more room than you'll ever need for infrastructure. They even put the mineral patch right next to the command center to reduce mining travel time to 0. That is what the majority of BW fans played more than any other map--if you looked at Bnet 1.0 that is. That is the "heyday" of early 2000's RTS. Dude I played the shit out of those maps, and I hated having to fucking babysit every worker in vanilla, but now I love it. So your 100% right, people who like that stuff are a small minority, and always have been. Tbh this is fine with me, I don't expect this type of game to be super popular. I DO expect it to be popular as an esport, since watching Losira is a spectacle in itself. This is the advantage I think a game like starcraft has over a moba, its easier to understand and watch for someone who doesn't play games.
Nah, me and my friend were the worse form of elitist.
We would say "fastestmap ever for noobs" so we would 2v6 on Hunters all day er day lol
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On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport.
The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it.
Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports.
We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport.
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The "boring" building stuff aspect is what makes it fun for most. Prioritizing your actions so you can be as efficient as possible while controlling your army and thinking about
the game.
I don't agree with any of the OP statements
In Dota it's the same. trying to time the last hits while paying attention to your teamates positions in the minimap tracking your opponent's mana and judging if you should go gank somewhere, tp to a tower, time runes. Also the hero draft has some pretty deep strategic depth, so that after 900 games i still don't get it.
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On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport.
Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet?
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On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet?
People who thought more about it than you did.
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On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet?
I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESport
http://www.techterms.com/definition/esports
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esports
None of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports.
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BW 2.0 to save RTS
Blizzard pls
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On June 05 2014 23:55 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet? I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESporthttp://www.techterms.com/definition/esportshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esportsNone of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports.
So your definition is based of wikipedia? Lol.
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On June 05 2014 23:59 Green_25 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:55 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet? I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESporthttp://www.techterms.com/definition/esportshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esportsNone of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports. So your definition is based of wikipedia? Lol.
you realize that you are being the one looking ridiculous with that comment...
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On June 06 2014 00:02 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:59 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 23:55 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet? I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESporthttp://www.techterms.com/definition/esportshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esportsNone of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports. So your definition is based of wikipedia? Lol. you realize that you are being the one looking ridiculous with that comment...
I think trying to pretend the word 'esports' isn't crazy subjective is whats ridiculous
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On June 05 2014 23:59 Green_25 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:55 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet? I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESporthttp://www.techterms.com/definition/esportshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esportsNone of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports. So your definition is based of wikipedia? Lol.
Sport = competition by means of a game
Traditional sport = competition by means of a game w/o the need of electricity.
Electronic sport = competition by means of game with electronic components.
I think you two are confusing between professional gaming and esport.
Any video game can be esports but only the 1% can be played professionally for a living.
This is why its always hilarious and facepalm worthy when people need to "save esport" *chuckles*. Esports will ALWAYS be there. SC2 as an esport will ALWAYS persist. But a game's worth to be played professional as a living largely depends the game's skill ceiling, playerbase, and viewership.
It shouldn't be "save SC2 esport!", it should rather be "Make playing SC2 more professionally viable.".
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On June 06 2014 00:06 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2014 23:59 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 23:55 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:22 Green_25 wrote:
I'm not really interested in starcraft becoming a moba/rts hybrid, I mean whats the point? Its just going to pale in comparison to league or Dota.
To be honest, I think traditional vanilla starcraft is WAY easier to watch than a moba if you aren't familiar with either genre, in terms of appreciating the skill of the players. I guess when I think about creating an esport I try to compare it as much to 'real' sport as possible, I think the starcraft model is better in that regard. Well, league is decent, but I never know wtf is going on in Dota.
Guess what I'm saying is I watch starcraft as an esport not to see deep strategic mindgames, but to see high level mechanical skill play out on even ground. Like a 'real' sport. At the end of the day in one game you are controlling 100 units in the other you are controlling one. Mobas are definitely more fun to play though.
I like the idea of a 4th race being added. Would be crazy challenging to do, but who knows.
Also can't believe people are mentioning Hearthstone in this thread. I love hearthstone, but it is not, and never will be, an 'esport'. hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet? I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESporthttp://www.techterms.com/definition/esportshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esportsNone of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports. So your definition is based of wikipedia? Lol. Sport = competition by means of a game Traditional sport = competition by means of a game w/o the need of electricity.Electronic sport = competition by means of game with electronic components. I think you two are confusing between professional gaming and esport. Any video game can be esports but only the 1% can be played professionally for a living. This is why its always hilarious and facepalm worthy when people need to "save esport" *chuckles*. Esports will ALWAYS be there. SC2 as an esport will ALWAYS persist. But a game's worth to be played professional as a living largely depends the game's skill ceiling, playerbase, and viewership. It shouldn't be "save SC2 esport!", it should rather be "Make playing SC2 more professionally viable.".
Actually, its:
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
Note the physical exertion and skill aspect. This is why I'd link skill being a necessity in esports. Feel free to disagree, as established there's no internet god defining these terms.
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So if we added tazers to football, would that be classified as an esport?
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On June 06 2014 00:05 Green_25 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 00:02 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 23:59 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 23:55 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 23:48 Green_25 wrote:On June 05 2014 22:46 Big J wrote:On June 05 2014 18:31 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:55 Big J wrote:On June 04 2014 22:34 Velr wrote:On June 04 2014 22:31 Big J wrote:
[quote]
hearthstone is an esport already. No clue why you think it wouldn't be. Because its a card game.. duh.. The fact that you can earn money with it, the better player tends to win and people like to watch it does not make something a sport… As far as i know Poker and various other « rl-life » card games aren’t considered sports too… Chess is considered a sport, but that's not even the question. We are talking esports, which is not the same as sports for several reasons. And as far as I know basically every PC Game that is being played competitively by professionals is considered an esport. That's the only somewhat official criterium I know about. Sorry. A TCG is a card game, not a Sport. I don't care if its played on the PC, in Person or in Space. Timeattack Solitaire also wouldn't be an E-Sport even if People would watch it... As is speedrunning and stuff like this... Playing a game competetively on the PC hardly makes something an (E)-Sport. The term esport is defined already. You cannot change its meaning just because you don't like it. Yes, speedrunning is esports. Playing a TCG on your PC competitively is esports. According to wikipedia, speedrunning space invaders in a tournament for money was the beginning of esports. We are talking esports, NOT sports. Neither Starcraft nor Hearthstone nor DotA is a sport. Wait, who defined the word 'esports'? The God of the internet? I guess like basically all modern words its meaning has just grown historically and can be looked up like any other word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESporthttp://www.techterms.com/definition/esportshttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=esportsNone of those definitions exclude hearthstone or speedruns. Wikipedia even explicitely states examples of highscore based competitions in the early years of esports. So your definition is based of wikipedia? Lol. you realize that you are being the one looking ridiculous with that comment... I think trying to pretend the word 'esports' isn't crazy subjective is whats ridiculous
Not going to discuss your feelings towards a word. It has a meaning, it can be looked up, end of story.
@Xiphos: I'm not confusing esports with anything else. I'm going by the commonly found definitions of the term that I looked up before writing those posts.
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EPT
