EPTFlash eliminated, Ragnarok, Shine and others advance to Co…
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esdf
Croatia736 Posts
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Axxis
United States133 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
Too bad Stats and Flash didn't make it  He still have some work to do. Shame that it was in a TvZ. It's his best match up.KT up in PL. Down in individuals They'll never achieve both | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 17 2014 13:51 tomastaz wrote: Flash can't practice for GSL only cares about Proleague But he lost to other Proleague players... Unless you think Flash leans primarily on gimmicky play I don't get your snark? | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 18 2014 00:28 Thieving Magpie wrote: But he lost to other Proleague players... Unless you think Flash leans primarily on gimmicky play I don't get your snark? PL is Bo1. 1 player, One map. So i don't think practice is the same for PL and for GSL. I might be wrong though. GSL => Multiple player, multiple races, multiples matches, multiple opponents | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10334 Posts
On April 17 2014 01:33 Rikudou wrote: KTFlaSh, the most overrated player in sc2 (in sc2 not in broodwar) overrated? please. ill be the first person to say that flash absolutely sucks garbage at sc2. but does that stop me from wanting to succeed and cheer for him? no it doesnt. lets keep irrational thoughts to ourselves. in conclusion, having fans =/= overrated. sorry we're not frontrunners. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 18 2014 02:10 FlaShFTW wrote: overrated? please. ill be the first person to say that flash absolutely sucks garbage at sc2. but does that stop me from wanting to succeed and cheer for him? no it doesnt. lets keep irrational thoughts to ourselves. in conclusion, having fans =/= overrated. sorry we're not frontrunners. Quite strange from a "fan" to say that... I'll never get those people calling Flash "bad" at SC2 simply because he's not top1. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 18 2014 00:39 FFW_Rude wrote: PL is Bo1. 1 player, One map. So i don't think practice is the same for PL and for GSL. I might be wrong though. GSL => Multiple player, multiple races, multiples matches, multiple opponents I don't think you understood what I meant when I said that "Unless you think Flash leans primarily on gimmicky play" suggesting that he's only good in Bo1 matches. I believe that Flash is capable of more than Bo1's, I mean, even DRG and MMA took a while to get GSL wins while they were wrecking team league. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On April 18 2014 02:22 Thieving Magpie wrote: I don't think you understood what I meant when I said that "Unless you think Flash leans primarily on gimmicky play" suggesting that he's only good in Bo1 matches. I believe that Flash is capable of more than Bo1's, I mean, even DRG and MMA took a while to get GSL wins while they were wrecking team league. Flash's play isn't gimmicky, but in bo3 he suffers from some predictability since he tends to always play the same macro builds (in his group, his CC rax gas use resulted in two losses against Roaches cheeses for instance). It's a pity because the few times he went 8-8-8 or 11/11 vs Zerg, it wasn't bad at all. | ||
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carson032000
United States4 Posts
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
On April 18 2014 06:39 carson032000 wrote: Flash is always my favorite terran, but skill-wise he will never win a sc2 championship in his remaining career. lol your psychic powers of prediction are immense. People are way too hard on Flash, he is not a bad player nor is he the greatest currently, but there is absolutely no reason why he couldn't be. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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luckystriker
Thailand21 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On April 18 2014 02:22 Thieving Magpie wrote: I don't think you understood what I meant when I said that "Unless you think Flash leans primarily on gimmicky play" suggesting that he's only good in Bo1 matches. I believe that Flash is capable of more than Bo1's, I mean, even DRG and MMA took a while to get GSL wins while they were wrecking team league. Oh no i was responding to the "he lost to other proleague players". Just stated that it wasn't the same thing to practice PL or GSL. I wasn't trying to call you off or something  On April 18 2014 13:34 luckystriker wrote: Because I watch Proleague I see Flash play all the time, and he ain't that good. Obviously his mechanics are superb, but his decision making is really, really bad. He also gets fooled by weird timing attacks pretty easily. Most of the games he wins are when his opponents allow him the freedom to do what he wants. This is quite true. Maybe that's why he struggles in bo3. And because he practice a lot for Bo1 must reflect on his predictability in a boX. Maybe. | ||
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Jaded.
United States125 Posts
On April 17 2014 02:51 mvdunecats wrote: So BW is basketball, and SC2 is baseball? Close, BW is basketball, SC2 is basketball with the hoops at about 5 ft off the ground and the court half the size it is now. Flash excelled at full court but now blizzard made it so everyone can dunk and score with little effort. That's why JD/Bisu/Flash aren't as dominant anymore. It's why you see Protoss dominance in the last 7(?) majors, not a protoss player. If one race gets a significant advantage over the others you won't see one player dominate it will be everyone that plays the race. When was the last time we had a back to back champion of any of the WCS. I suspect this is also why Jangbi left. Jangbi was the god of storms, in BW you select one templar, T, click; Then select another templar, t, click...etc. Now you just bind everything to 2 (or 1 as templars usually end up on top anyways) and T, click over and over again giving you perfect "Jangbi Storms" with no effort. TL:DR; Bisu/Jaedong/Flash were monsters because their execution was amazing. Blizzard took out execution and made it easy thus they are not as good. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 19 2014 00:51 Jaded. wrote: Close, BW is basketball, SC2 is basketball with the hoops at about 5 ft off the ground and the court half the size it is now. Flash excelled at full court but now blizzard made it so everyone can dunk and score with little effort. That's why JD/Bisu/Flash aren't as dominant anymore. It's why you see Protoss dominance in the last 7(?) majors, not a protoss player. If one race gets a significant advantage over the others you won't see one player dominate it will be everyone that plays the race. When was the last time we had a back to back champion of any of the WCS. I suspect this is also why Jangbi left. Jangbi was the god of storms, in BW you select one templar, T, click; Then select another templar, t, click...etc. Now you just bind everything to 2 (or 1 as templars usually end up on top anyways) and T, click over and over again giving you perfect "Jangbi Storms" with no effort. TL:DR; Bisu/Jaedong/Flash were monsters because their execution was amazing. Blizzard took out execution and made it easy thus they are not as good. Polt won 2 WCS in a row MC went to 3 WCS finals, winning 1 Soo went to 2 of 3 GSL finals Snute won HSC twice in a row now? sOs has won every 100k tournament he's ever gone into And that's just recent records. Things get worse if you look back over a longer length of time. As for BW legends: Fantasy, still can't macro. And it seems his macro is even worse than it was in BW. Flash has ridiculously bad game sense. He keeps losing just for not scouting and not being able to spot army movements. Bisu was terrible *during* the time that Rain, Parting, and sOs were dominating showing that it was very much possible to win with Protoss but Bisu just wasn't able to execute properly at all. And yet, the non BW legends keep pumping out solid performances and consistent results. Turns out they were simply good at BW but that being good at BW has not translated to being good at SC2. | ||
stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 19 2014 00:51 Jaded. wrote: Close, BW is basketball, SC2 is basketball with the hoops at about 5 ft off the ground and the court half the size it is now. Flash excelled at full court but now blizzard made it so everyone can dunk and score with little effort. That's why JD/Bisu/Flash aren't as dominant anymore. It's why you see Protoss dominance in the last 7(?) majors, not a protoss player. If one race gets a significant advantage over the others you won't see one player dominate it will be everyone that plays the race. When was the last time we had a back to back champion of any of the WCS. I suspect this is also why Jangbi left. Jangbi was the god of storms, in BW you select one templar, T, click; Then select another templar, t, click...etc. Now you just bind everything to 2 (or 1 as templars usually end up on top anyways) and T, click over and over again giving you perfect "Jangbi Storms" with no effort. TL:DR; Bisu/Jaedong/Flash were monsters because their execution was amazing. Blizzard took out execution and made it easy thus they are not as good. Players like Life, Maru, Polt, Dear, Zest, Parting, Rain, Soulkey, Supernova all have better execution than Bisu/Jaedong/Flash did in SC2. They just cant reach the skill ceiling that is in SC2. Also Jangbi left SC2 because Khan stole his money. Using him as an example is disgusting and disrespectful. | ||
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zerosouL
Poland11 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 19 2014 03:49 zerosouL wrote: No matter how do you look at things, SC2 is just another dumbed down game made for casual gamers generation. You must be insane calling out Bisu, Flash, JD ect a bad players just cause of their SC2 performance. There is a good reason why NOONE is able to dominate in this game on a regular basis. Jangbi/Bisu switched back to BW and instantly started to dominate whole scene all over again. Wonder why? Unlike SC2, BW requires some godly skills. Flash having bad game sense and Fantasy having bad macro has nothing to do with the comparative qualities of BW and SC2. Flash *can* have better game sense, but he doesn't. Fantasy *can* have better macro, but he doesn't. The same is true for Bisu and JD. Despite their talent at BW they are not able to perform as well as their peers in SC2. Zest had a 70%-80% in Proleague and then won the GSL. That is impressive. Yet there is no hype--because too many people are still waiting for Flash/JD to mimic their BW days when we have players right now starting to lay the groundwork for their empires. And of course Bisu and Jangbi are doing well in BW, they were good at BW they're not going to stop doing well in BW just because they took a break for a few months. Flash not having as a good a game sense as his peers has nothing to do with SC2 being easier or harder or whatever. He is not as good at this game as his peers, because of that he is not the titan he once was. Its that simple. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 19 2014 00:51 Jaded. wrote: Close, BW is basketball, SC2 is basketball with the hoops at about 5 ft off the ground and the court half the size it is now. Flash excelled at full court but now blizzard made it so everyone can dunk and score with little effort. That's why JD/Bisu/Flash aren't as dominant anymore. It's why you see Protoss dominance in the last 7(?) majors, not a protoss player. If one race gets a significant advantage over the others you won't see one player dominate it will be everyone that plays the race. When was the last time we had a back to back champion of any of the WCS. I suspect this is also why Jangbi left. Jangbi was the god of storms, in BW you select one templar, T, click; Then select another templar, t, click...etc. Now you just bind everything to 2 (or 1 as templars usually end up on top anyways) and T, click over and over again giving you perfect "Jangbi Storms" with no effort. TL:DR; Bisu/Jaedong/Flash were monsters because their execution was amazing. Blizzard took out execution and made it easy thus they are not as good. while I agree that smart casting should've never been incorporated into SCII, Jangbi left because as mentioned, Khan took some of his money, didn't tell him about offers from other teams, showed favoritism to Stork etc... so I don't think it's the differences that you mentioned. On April 19 2014 03:49 zerosouL wrote: No matter how do you look at things, SC2 is just another dumbed down game made for casual gamers generation. You must be insane calling out Bisu, Flash, JD ect a bad players just cause of their SC2 performance. There is a good reason why NOONE is able to dominate in this game on a regular basis. Jangbi/Bisu switched back to BW and instantly started to dominate whole scene all over again. Wonder why? Unlike SC2, BW requires some godly skills. come now, let's not start this BW vs SCII topic again. The game are quite different. I think calling out Bisu, Flash, JD as bad players is bizzare given how much difficult it was to play BW so they obviously have the skillset to do well in SCII. I don't know the reason why they aren't dominating but I suspect they miss BW a lot. Must be hard to move on from something that you played for so long and loved etc... I think Bisu was hit the hardest which is why he couldn't adapt much to it. Jaedong and Flash were able to overcome it to various degrees but they still play the game like in BW(Flash at least) so sadly, I don't see Flash winning a GSL anytime soon even though he has the potential to be a GSL champion. To be fair, Jangbi went back to SSL9 and got dominated by Larva in the RO32 and barely survived only to be eliminated in the RO16. Given, he hasn't practiced much due to family issues but ya, he didn't start dominating the scene again. I was very disappointed watching his games against Larva ><; Bisu on the other hand is still a beast in BW. Best BW player atm. His games against hero in the finals were freaking impressive and hero played some of the best ZvP in the whole SSL so I agree there. I think in the end, the top BW players aren't doing as well as anticipated because they are having a hard time adapting to the game even after all this time (Jaedong is an exception it seems lol). PS not considering PL results | ||
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