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NaNiwa forfeits mid-series at IEM Katowice - Page 44

Forum Index > SC2 General
938 CommentsPost a Reply
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Bertholdz
Profile Joined July 2013
23 Posts
March 16 2014 14:55 GMT
#861
People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:

Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.

All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.

But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.
veilchen
Profile Joined February 2014
13 Posts
March 16 2014 15:35 GMT
#862
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote:


All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.



Calling out bourgeois hypocrisy right where it hurts! Naniwa and Bertholdz - modern Galileis.

pms
Profile Joined April 2008
Poland611 Posts
March 16 2014 15:40 GMT
#863
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote:
People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:

Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.

All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.

But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.


Well put
drsia
Profile Joined February 2014
Malaysia12 Posts
March 16 2014 16:02 GMT
#864
On March 16 2014 20:25 pms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2014 20:17 ninazerg wrote:
I love Naniwa 100x more now. This was brilliant.


He has balls.

+ Show Spoiler +

Nani-balls doesn't sound right, too close to nano-balls



agree
gneGne
Profile Joined June 2007
Netherlands697 Posts
March 16 2014 16:40 GMT
#865
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote:
People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:

Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.

All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.

But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.


That is bullshit. You can create rivalries while showing good sportsmanship. Why would you defend Naniwa for being a sore loser? Not really my definition of someone who has cojones... quite the opposite I might say.
veilchen
Profile Joined February 2014
13 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-16 18:35:41
March 16 2014 18:34 GMT
#866
Next to these humble and down-to-earth koreans his jerkyness happens to be even more appalling..
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
March 16 2014 18:38 GMT
#867
Sometimes I feel like TL is occupied by old women when it comes to controversial topics (like Naniwa). One of his biggest draws (aside from being -- or having been one of the best foreigners ever in SC2) is that he doesn't abide by the golden community standard of professionalism. Anyone who was surprised he could go out like this were either delusional (he hadn't practiced in a month), or simply want to be surprised so they can rant even more how much they dislike Naniwa. The only reason most of us give a shit at all is because of his lack of self-censoring.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
March 16 2014 23:04 GMT
#868
On March 16 2014 21:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2014 20:19 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 11:42 boxerfred wrote:
I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .

Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.

On March 16 2014 11:40 for_the_swarm wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:54 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:34 TUski wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:26 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:18 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:11 pms wrote:
[quote]

This sounds like a joke to you?

[quote]

Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.


Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.


I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.

EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.

I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.


There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.



There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.



[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]



Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.


Not even live audience paid anything. The tickets were free.

Not to mention, that this "implicit rule" is questionable, while the rule of having the possibility of forfeiting is a real written rule.


Travelling, opportunity cost?


that deserves a facepalm, implicating the thing about "too much theorycrafting" mentioned before
b0rt_
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway931 Posts
March 16 2014 23:16 GMT
#869
On March 17 2014 03:38 rd wrote:
Sometimes I feel like TL is occupied by old women when it comes to controversial topics (like Naniwa). One of his biggest draws (aside from being -- or having been one of the best foreigners ever in SC2) is that he doesn't abide by the golden community standard of professionalism. Anyone who was surprised he could go out like this were either delusional (he hadn't practiced in a month), or simply want to be surprised so they can rant even more how much they dislike Naniwa. The only reason most of us give a shit at all is because of his lack of self-censoring.

People gave a shit because he is/was the best foreigner.
He gave a lot of bm everywhere and people are giving bm back. It's all fun and games maybe if you like this kinda thing.
Mantaza
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany87 Posts
March 17 2014 00:41 GMT
#870
On March 15 2014 01:40 S1eth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2014 01:36 Quakie wrote:
Are the soundproofing -issues legit?if so, why cant they still make good boots?

legt? Nope.
Booths? Nope. Read TBs part in the OP here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/442794-soundproofing-continues-to-be-an-issue-in-gom-studio

so tb played the game ? I mean maybe naniwa could really hear something and got mad because of that. I hate how tb always knows everything. I mean afterall naniwa was sitting there and maybe heard the crowd and got mad thats all its naniwa he gets angry pretty fast.
stefantheterran
Profile Joined December 2013
Austria61 Posts
March 17 2014 04:27 GMT
#871
I'd like to say that this came as a surprise, but unfortunately I can't. It's still sad and stupid, but that was kinda to be expected at this point...
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
March 17 2014 08:09 GMT
#872
On March 16 2014 23:07 pms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2014 11:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote:
IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.


Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset

His team

HIs teams sponsors

Every spectator who paid money to attend that event

Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport)


Man, I'm loosing my respect to you. I thought you're a bit more cool-headed.

Get real. There is nothing better for Starcraft than a foreigner winning against Koreans. Naniwa still has fans and people would still enjoy him winning against Koreans. I still prefer watching Naniwa than anybody else.

You and Stephano you're just making propaganda come true in Starcraft. I still have more respect for Naniwa than to Stephano, who is just openly propagating hatred toward Naniwa. How is such hatred even acceptable for this community?



You're losing respect for TB because you thought he was more cool-headed, eh? I thought cool-headed might describe thinking about more than just one person, like all the other people working to make IEM happen that TB wrote about.

If there's "nothing better for Starcraft than a foreigner winning against Koreans," what value do you place on a foreigner quitting after going down 0-1 in a BO5? Naniwa greatly lowered his net worth with his exit this weekend.

Stephano has some fans that defend and support him no matter what, just like Naniwa. That hardly constitutes the community accepting hateful behavior.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
March 17 2014 09:10 GMT
#873
On March 17 2014 08:04 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2014 21:51 SC2Toastie wrote:
On March 16 2014 20:19 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 11:42 boxerfred wrote:
I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .

Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.

On March 16 2014 11:40 for_the_swarm wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:54 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:34 TUski wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:26 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:18 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.


I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.

EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.

I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.


There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.



There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.



[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]



Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.


Not even live audience paid anything. The tickets were free.

Not to mention, that this "implicit rule" is questionable, while the rule of having the possibility of forfeiting is a real written rule.


Travelling, opportunity cost?


that deserves a facepalm, implicating the thing about "too much theorycrafting" mentioned before

Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
Shuffleblade
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden1903 Posts
March 17 2014 09:37 GMT
#874
What really takes the cake was the end if this tournament, sOs did some pretty cheesy strats. Would he have done them if he thought there was a problem with the sound proofing? Did hero find his proxies beacuse of bad soundproofing? >_> lol this just shows what a load of bull Nanis excuse was.
Maru, Bomber, TY, Dear, Classic, DeParture and Rogue!
sawman
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway18 Posts
March 17 2014 11:08 GMT
#875
On March 17 2014 18:37 Shuffleblade wrote:
What really takes the cake was the end if this tournament, sOs did some pretty cheesy strats. Would he have done them if he thought there was a problem with the sound proofing? Did hero find his proxies beacuse of bad soundproofing? >_> lol this just shows what a load of bull Nanis excuse was.


Naniwa's reaction: my opponent can understand from the crowd that I proxy, and therefore I can't win.
sOs's rection: my opponent can understand from the crowd that I proxy, therefore I can trick him


What NaNiwa thought was a disadvantage, sOs used as an advantage.
BananaJunkie
Profile Joined October 2011
Denmark119 Posts
March 17 2014 11:14 GMT
#876
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote:
People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:

Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.

All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.

But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.

Just my words!....
Beer: The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
March 17 2014 11:34 GMT
#877
On March 17 2014 20:08 sawman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2014 18:37 Shuffleblade wrote:
What really takes the cake was the end if this tournament, sOs did some pretty cheesy strats. Would he have done them if he thought there was a problem with the sound proofing? Did hero find his proxies beacuse of bad soundproofing? >_> lol this just shows what a load of bull Nanis excuse was.


Naniwa's reaction: my opponent can understand from the crowd that I proxy, and therefore I can't win.


It's still not evaluated if the soundproofing really was the issue. Maybe Naniwa was just like "LOL scv, he must've heard me" - oh hell, and even if the crowd was cheering, it was more likely to be for the player's introduction. Also, I re-watched the freakin' game, the crowd wasn't even that loud on that proxy. Stop finding excuses.
Sakray
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
France2198 Posts
March 17 2014 11:38 GMT
#878
What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.

But nope, witchunt too stronk
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-17 11:49:28
March 17 2014 11:46 GMT
#879
On March 16 2014 15:17 Qwyn wrote:
[...]
I said before that Naniwa acted on what he felt was right - that it was time to leave, - that he couldn't be bothered to play anymore because it just wasn't fucking worth it. At least he had the balls to leave on an impulse.

This isn't a professional sport. It's a goddamned game. And a competition should be a spectacle that gamers take part in together out of passion built upon a solid foundation. Only here, now, - the foundation ISN'T the game...it's become eSports this, eSports that. All for eSports! I never thought I'd understand this point of view.

Stop trying to "professionalize" something that is, at its core, not professional. And if people are going to try to make a living playing games...don't act on a foundation of professionalism. Act on the proper foundation. The GAME.
[...]

There could have been 1000 other ways to say good bye to Sc2 rather than doing it like this. U don't need to be professional to behave according to ur age... This is nothing he can be proud of. It's not about forfeitting itself... it's about how he did it and with what intention...
Random is hard work dude...
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 17 2014 12:10 GMT
#880
My problem with all of this isn't that he did forfeit his matches (that alone is bad too , but he has the right to do that ofc!), but more the way he did it.
His proxy fails and his reaction is instantly to blame it on other factors. IMO naniwa is extremely childish and tbh he doesn't seem to be smart either. So yeah i won't miss him, it is just kinda sad that another rather skilled foreigner leaves the scene.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
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