EPTNaNiwa forfeits mid-series at IEM Katowice - Page 42
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dde
Canada796 Posts
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ThePlagueJG
Sweden1010 Posts
On March 16 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote: Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective. I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word. EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On March 16 2014 09:18 ThePlagueJG wrote: I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word. EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc. I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point. | ||
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blinken
Canada368 Posts
Because he represents a game that they like to potential new viewers, sponsors, etc. Also people get upset when someone they are rooting for gives zero effort. The scene will make it because it deserves it, not because one of many players is "disrespectful". If you're going to spend your time and potentially money to watch Starcraft, you kind of want to see some Starcraft. Professional players should deliver that when they are paid to do so. It would have been extremely easy for him to half ass his way through the rest of that series but instead he just decided to quit. Had he probe rushed would that have been better or worse? 4-gated? People would complain no matter what if he didn't give 100%. It was in fact his choice to walk out like that. But as many selfish people do he didn't take into account how that would affect the viewers, and more importantly, IEM. First off IEM had to spend money to fly Naniwa out and pay for his hotel for him to put in this horrible performance. Secondly, Naniwa delayed the tournament and took up main stage time (which later became important as a series had to be pushed to the following day). Third, fans who had tuned in to see Naniwa play and had potentially cancelled plans just to see him (I have done this for certain players) cancelled their plans for nothing. So call me emotionally immature if you want but I think Naniwa's actions were disrespectful to the tournament and the viewers. IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month. | ||
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TUski
United States1258 Posts
On March 16 2014 09:26 Darkhorse wrote: I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point. There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results. | ||
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veilchen
13 Posts
On March 16 2014 05:33 dream-_- wrote: Naniwa is standing up for what he believes. If he thinks something is wrong, he doesn't just roll with it. I have a lot of respect for Naniwa. But of course the masses will never see it that way, Naniwa is here to entertain you after all. You could basically justify every asshole in earth's brief history with that confuse excuse of an argument... | ||
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pms
Poland611 Posts
On March 16 2014 09:43 veilchen wrote: You could basically justify every asshole in earth's brief history with that confuse excuse of an argument... That's not truth. I'll have always respect for hard working and sincere people. I will never have respect for people who do little and call others using aggressive language. Of course the masses will never see it that way, cause the masses are basically dumb. | ||
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pms
Poland611 Posts
On March 16 2014 09:34 TUski wrote: There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results. It's not ok to call anybody "pure evil", ask for "hatred", nor for "cancer". When somebody uses this kind of rhetoric, then that's a problem, and this person himself is not ok. There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament. | ||
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for_the_swarm
United States48 Posts
On March 16 2014 09:54 pms wrote: There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament. technically hes not breaking any official rule but theres also the implicit rule associated with any professional competitive sport/gaming. If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. If i was watching a professional boxer, he can technically throw in the towel at any time without breaking any rules. However, if he threw in the towel without putting up a fight, then he can reasonably receive shit from the audience. Naniwa deserves all the shit he receives because he brings it on himself. Like the highly anticipated nestea game where he probe rushed with his hand on his chin.. he called it a meaningless game but how about putting on a show for the fans that literally make his lifestyle possible? How bout play for GOM who was broadcasting the game live to their paying audience and was generous enough to give him a seed to Code S. Or represent the team which pays his salary in a positive light? Also his refusal to shake hands with his opponent which is almost a universal show of sportsmanship in every sport.. he has no one to blame but himself. Anyone who conducts themselves in a respectable manner doesnt get half the shit he gets. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
 . Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does. On March 16 2014 11:40 for_the_swarm wrote: [...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...] Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote: IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month. Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset His team HIs teams sponsors Every spectator who paid money to attend that event Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport) | ||
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NihilisticGod
Northern Ireland174 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On March 16 2014 08:48 blinken wrote: It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know? For me, it isn't entertaining to watch that kind of behavior. His whole schtick is tired and sour. Oooh, the passive aggressive smiley again. Oooh, a forfeit. How compelling Naniwa. It's not about "caring so much"; it's just a subjective preference. As a fan of the game, I'd rather not see someone like him spoiling my experience with the whole entitled / poor sport thing that he's hung his hat on for years. Is that difficult to understand? | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On March 16 2014 08:48 blinken wrote: It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know? The attitudes around this scene in relation to players is very strange. We don't own them, and they don't owe us anything. Our viewership provides their current careers, and for some reason this makes people feel they have power over the progamers. It's batshit crazy to me. We received countless hours of entertainment from Naniwa, and he was well paid. Quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned... Just imagine it yourself. There is a big lead up to this event, everyone is expecting you to play your best and give a good show, there is no indication that you will suddenly forfeit if certain elements are not to your liking. I understand in some cases (like say streaming from home), you can choose when you want to stream and people have no right to demand that you stream for them. But in this case, we have an entire, fairly prestigious tournament being planned, that people have planned their weekend around hoping to see their favourite player play (or just to watch a great or good game). When you suddenly pull out, without giving any really good reason except, apparently, that he doesn't like the sound booths and is just angry in general, it can be a pretty big let down because there is an unspoken expectation that the players came their to play, and you to watch. For many, its not only a let down, but it can be anger inducing. Just imagine it in the extreme case...suppose that all of the progamers left after playing one game after their proxy was scouted. Wouldn't you feel like you've been ripped off, and the tournament that was setup for you to watch was just a waste of your time and possibly money? Now just scale it down to one person. Its the same principle; some people are fanatics about starcraft 2; some do really love the game and love watching certain players clash. It may not be you or I who feel this way, but I think its understandable that they would be upset about the turn of events. I think its fine to have some sympathy for him and his emotional problems, but he does have an unspoken responsibility as I outlined above. Although I have to say, as a passive viewer sitting at home, casually tuning in to watch the events, I can say I was mildly disappointed but it hardly affected me at all. But if I flew out all the way to IEM to watch, I'd probably be a little pissed. Its not an official contract you sign to "please" or "entertain" the viewers, but there is obviously an unspoken trust that you go there to play for them, because that's why they came specifically to watch. And the funny thing is, Naniwa agreed with all of this after the 6-probe rush incident! But he just doesn't care enough this time. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 16 2014 00:56 Darkhorse wrote: Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators. It doesn't have to be white noise, it could be crowd noise from previous tournaments and turned off 5-8 minutes into the game. | ||
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blinken
Canada368 Posts
On March 16 2014 11:42 TotalBiscuit wrote: Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset His team HIs teams sponsors Every spectator who paid money to attend that event Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport) Alliance sponsored Naniwa. Naniwa. You don't think they had an idea of what they were getting into? If not, they certainly should have. People don't change. And why sponsor Naniwa? To appeal to his fanbase. Are they the ones freaking out or is it everyone else? His actions may hinder growth, but only in the sense that the best foreigner just quit. And let's be real, your team is solid no one would ever pull a stunt like this. It's a unique situation I feel gives the community character and lore rather than makes us look bad (being such an isolated event). I think attending the event would have been legendary. If Naniwa never comes back than that is a pretty huge event in e-sports history, and these people had a front row seat. How many production errors have we suffered over the years which have wasted far more of everyone's time? We will forgive that but a player potentially at his wits end literally losing his will to play right before our eyes is blasphemy? I'm not saying it was right what he did, but the effect is far outweighing the cause. It happened, let's move forth. I think this kind of drama is what this community unfortunately relies upon, and it's not its finest hour. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
The foundation is the game. Sometimes I wish this would all burn away. You build on top of a solid foundation. You go back to your roots. You feel it out, invest your passion into something you decide is worthy of your time. And if that passion dies? Well I'd rather be Naniwa and leave without caring what "eSports" thinks, then sit and suffer (a la IdrA). For god's sake, people have forgotten the game. Or maybe they haven't forgotten it - they're mired in all the eSports bullshit that's been layered on top - suffocating the foundation until we can't even breathe. I said before that Naniwa acted on what he felt was right - that it was time to leave, - that he couldn't be bothered to play anymore because it just wasn't fucking worth it. At least he had the balls to leave on an impulse. This isn't a professional sport. It's a goddamned game. And a competition should be a spectacle that gamers take part in together out of passion built upon a solid foundation. Only here, now, - the foundation ISN'T the game...it's become eSports this, eSports that. All for eSports! I never thought I'd understand this point of view. Stop trying to "professionalize" something that is, at its core, not professional. And if people are going to try to make a living playing games...don't act on a foundation of professionalism. Act on the proper foundation. The GAME. You know, there's something really beautiful about Brood War at this moment. Something that I think this community has lost. And that's a proper foundation. | ||
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cythaze
830 Posts
I was there in the crowd to see some of his swedish fans that traveled to see him (some believed that he could pull an upset and win, otherswanted to just see him play one last time) leave the venue in disbelief. he also looked so tilted even before the game started, just no passion and if he wanted to lose anyway. he should have canceled the participation in advance imo | ||
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Blardy
United States290 Posts
On March 16 2014 08:48 blinken wrote: It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know? The attitudes around this scene in relation to players is very strange. We don't own them, and they don't owe us anything. Our viewership provides their current careers, and for some reason this makes people feel they have power over the progamers. It's batshit crazy to me. We received countless hours of entertainment from Naniwa, and he was well paid. Quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned. Naniwa was always a favorite player of mine. He probably worked harder than any foreigner, and reaped the benefits. He was very passionate about his own play and rightly so. Do I care he walked off mid series? Not at all. He's finished and that's how he decided to exit. His choice. Thanks for the countless epic series Naniwa. Best foreigner that SC2 will probably ever know. This is completely how I feel about the situation. NaNiwa provided countless hours of entertainment. Great guy that lost passion in a game, can't blame him as i've lost passion watching SC2 for years. I only tune in to watch him, mvp, and nestea. | ||
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
On March 16 2014 15:18 cythaze wrote: I don't get how people still can feel sympathy towards naniwa after this... I was there in the crowd to see some of his swedish fans that traveled to see him (some believed that he could pull an upset and win, otherswanted to just see him play one last time) leave the venue in disbelief. he also looked so tilted even before the game started, just no passion and if he wanted to lose anyway. he should have canceled the participation in advance imo Maybe because Naniwa has legit autism related mental condition, and most people just enjoy hating on someone just for fun, like getting on the internet bashing bandwagon, or for example hating on someone like IdrA just because other people are doing it. People forget Naniwa is the best and most consistent non Korean player to win and get far in stacked events for a very long time. Most people hating on him think Esports is some drama and the players are animals that are there to entertain them. If you were a true fan of someone, you would be more concerned with his mental state and his health. This is a video game, not professional baseball or anything. | ||
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