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On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
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TRaFFiC, maybe stop ignoring evidence and start arguing or admit you're a desperate faniwa and just get over it, please.
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On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse.
As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
On March 18 2014 00:06 SC2Toastie wrote:
TRaFFiC, maybe stop ignoring evidence and start arguing or admit you're a desperate faniwa and just get over it, please.
evidence of what? Yeah, I'm a fan of the players on a gaming site. Shoot me :D
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What evidence? I am not a Naniwa fan, but I would think it self-evident that Naniwa heard the audience based on what he typed. That Polt would had scouted it anyways is irrelevent, to whatever asking of evidence you require.
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I'm sure others have pointed this out, but as someone who watched this live, sound-proofing had nothing to do with Naniwa's proxy being scouted. Polt sent his SCV out of the base on a straight line through the natural with a second waypoint to start heading towards Naniwa's base. It was about as standard of a scouting path as I've ever seen. The crowd and announcers all started going "oooooOOOO" as the SCV's vision neared the proxy, and then the proxy was discovered. Polt never altered the SCV's initial path in response to the crowd noise, and would have successfully scouted the proxy even if it had been completely silent.
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On March 18 2014 00:09 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage? You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse. As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"?
"As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer....
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On March 18 2014 00:15 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:09 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage? You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse. As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility. Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"? " As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer....
It's obvious you didn't read my posts because I literally just answered both questions.
1)So why is Naniwa complaining?
Me: "Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt. "
2)Then why did he complain in this case?
Me: "Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. "
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On March 18 2014 00:20 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:15 Phaenoman wrote:On March 18 2014 00:09 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage? You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse. As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility. Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"? " As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer.... It's obvious you didn't read my posts because I literally just answered both questions. 1)So why is Naniwa complaining? Me: "Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt. " 2)Then why did he complain in this case? Me: "Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. "
I agree he never complained about Polt. He complained about soundproofing.. ok. Where did that happen and why would u complain? He said "xD so fun to play without soundproofing". How are u certain that he means his match vs Polt? Pls... this is getting ridiculous.
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On March 18 2014 00:20 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:15 Phaenoman wrote:On March 18 2014 00:09 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage? You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse. As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility. Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"? " As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer.... It's obvious you didn't read my posts because I literally just answered both questions. 1)So why is Naniwa complaining? Me: "Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt. " 2)Then why did he complain in this case? Me: "Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. "
1) Following your logic there are 2 possibilities why he forfeited. Because of soundproofing overall, or because he assumes he lost because of it ("Polt used it"). Past actions show that he doesn't forfeit when there is a soundproofing issues - so this isn't an option.
Of course it's entirely possible that he changes his opinion depending on what benefits him the most.
Which is what people call a sore loser / hypocrite.
2) Did you watch the final? Same booths, lots of cheese. So it's certainly possible to cheese through the tournament with the level of soundproofing the tournament offered.
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Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
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On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
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On March 18 2014 04:09 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage? I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them. At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
The whole discussion is about Naniwa forfeiting with his complain and leaving - not against the rules, but in a disrespectful fashion. What I just don't like that he complained about sth he apparently abused himself once. I don't know Naniwa, I just see his bahaviour and his playstyle. And his behaviour wasn't very appropriate very often, just like recently. Ofc the tournament organizers have to take of this. But no one is responsible for Naniwas behaving...
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Live events are live events. You don't play from the comfort of your own home, you don't have ideal conditions, and there are constraints on the event organizers. If you're going to do world's most telegraphed proxy gate on the main stage, you need to take this into account. And anyway, how exactly would they go about soundproofing a small booth in front of an audience of thousands? Maybe they should ask the audience not to cheer? Or create a futuristic vacuum bubble for the progamers to play in, complete with oxygen masks and pressure suits?
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On March 18 2014 04:37 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 04:09 rd wrote:On March 18 2014 00:02 Phaenoman wrote:On March 17 2014 23:57 TRaFFiC wrote:On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote:
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC. So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again? Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage? I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them. At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene. The whole discussion is about Naniwa forfeiting with his complain and leaving - not against the rules, but in a disrespectful fashion. What I just don't like that he complained about sth he apparently abused himself once. I don't know Naniwa, I just see his bahaviour and his playstyle. And his behaviour wasn't very appropriate very often, just like recently. Ofc the tournament organizers have to take of this. But no one is responsible for Naniwas behaving...
Is the discussion about him forfeiting disrespectfully, or the integrity of sound proof abuse among players? You can dislike him for his attitude. Holding the match-up to complain about sound-proofing was pretty excessive. But don't hold him to such a high expectation without holding that same expectation to every other player who'd probably do the same in his situation (in reference to getting an advantage due to bad sound proofing). Naniwa is responsible for his behavior, but he's not responsible for the quality of booths he plays in. If he wants to make himself look like an ass over an issue other players probably aren't willing to make themselves look like asses over, again, thats his perogative. He's a player and it's obviously in his own interest, just as it's in any player's best interest.
(im assuming polt would have scouted the proxy regardless of the audience noise)
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Still awaiting a statement from EGAlliance.
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On March 18 2014 05:44 vult wrote:
Still awaiting a statement from EGAlliance.
User was warned for this post
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So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
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On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote:
So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
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On March 18 2014 16:06 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote:
So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience? No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Dafuq? So there's not even a consensus on whether this issue exist in the first place? Or maybe Naniwa has better hearing than most people?
I do believe there are enough cheeses overall in in the semi-finals/finals of major tournaments(with large audiences) to support the idea that soundproofing should not be an issue. But there are also tidbits here and there by various progamers of the opposite. Perhaps it's just a matter of Naniwa having more fans and therefore the sound becomes louder when he cheeses?
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On March 18 2014 16:06 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote:
So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience? No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
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EPT
