David Kim reddit Q&A transcript - Page 16

Units that aren't being used that much, but don't break anything aren't as high of a priority for patches. However, they are high priority for the next game. This list includes not just the Nydus Worm, but also units such as BCs, Carriers, Corruptors, etc.

On March 14 2014 09:52 Elvin wrote:


I'd like to see those.

Thanks for another bullshit interview Mr. Kim no one can dodge questions as you can.

On March 14 2014 12:25 sagefreke wrote:


I'm holding you to this DK! I want Corruptors to not be boring AA units.

On March 14 2014 17:08 UltiBahamut wrote:
i'm a little sad they didn't reach my question in the ama about giving hydra an instant/non projectile attack as a way of helping vs the mass raven late game as PDD wouldn't block them then. xD But oh well.

Overall i'm pretty happy about their responses tbh. I just wish they would be more liberal with testing stuff at least on test maps more than simply saying we don't like to test anything unless it is 'AMAZING!!' Would be a lot better than simply saying this. They are going to get flak either way but they might as well try to show some ideas that people are having lol.

On March 14 2014 17:09 Big J wrote:


Then you realize that ravens can spawn free units that just kill them.

On March 14 2014 17:08 UltiBahamut wrote:
i'm a little sad they didn't reach my question in the ama about giving hydra an instant/non projectile attack as a way of helping vs the mass raven late game as PDD wouldn't block them then. xD But oh well.

Overall i'm pretty happy about their responses tbh. I just wish they would be more liberal with testing stuff at least on test maps more than simply saying we don't like to test anything unless it is 'AMAZING!!' Would be a lot better than simply saying this. They are going to get flak either way but they might as well try to show some ideas that people are having lol.

On March 14 2014 17:13 UltiBahamut wrote:


Exactly. Instead of throwing more free units to deal with the free units i personally feel as though giving hydras a use would be interesting to watch and maybe play as hydralisks are definitely better than infested terrans. As infested terrans are the only AA unit zerg has atm that doesn't get blocked by a PDD. I doubt it would be a hard counter, but it would come down to micro i hope.

EDIT: Essentially saying that i think hydras as a response to the mass viking/raven would be more interesting than the current mass spore crawlers and infestors as the only thing that kind of is able to fight the ravens as hydra's currently can't get a shot off before exploding, Muta/corruptor which can't get a shot off before exploding, or queens which explode heal explode heal but still can't get a shot off At least the hydralisk could do some micro of moving forward, shooting and running away before the seeker goes off or you can micro the targeted hydralisk away (Unlikely xD So hard to grab them if more than 1 or 2 are targeted). But i still feel that even with this change people would still do infestors and spores vs viking/raven

On March 14 2014 18:30 Big J wrote:


Your main problem with fighting the Viking/Raven from the ground is always tanks. Which you will not really find a way to beat with hydralisk.

If they want to avoid those kind of stuff, they need to give zerg units that are more efficient for 1-2supply. 2supply hydras against 2supply ravens are a joke. Even 2supply mutas (which are pretty good) and 2supply corruptors are pretty shitty comnpared to some of those T/P units (mostly Tempest and Raven though). You will always end up maxing with too few units with the current supplycosts. Infestors are pretty supplyefficient too though.
That's the crux with most of zerg lategame. You always end up building the "right" units (like roaches against stalkers) and then you are suddenly maxed and your opponent turtles another 5mins building all the units that you counter cost for cost - but it doesn't matter at all for as long has he brings double the cost.

Units clumping naturally - This really rewards split micro which is one of the coolest micro moments SC2 provides. If units auto spread, marine splitting vs. Banelings won't be as cool to watch.

On March 14 2014 19:14 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Warp in is very cool coming from the WP IMO, but only then. Otherwise, it has all the disadvantages pointed out in numerous threads. It should have been a WP ability, not the basic unit production mechanism.

FF is just bad, along with FG, because they are potentially game ending and micro denying, without a sensible skill ceiling (pro level). As a spectator, i never ever think "wow! how great is that P/Z player for having used FF/FG in that way!" In 2010 it was impressive yes, now you just embarrass yourself if you don't have superb FF placement. Storm and EMP can be cool in lategame because of the HT and Ghost positioning game: Having multiple HTs coming from different angles, setting traps, etc is what makes this fun. None of this is present for the Sentry and Infestor, so they are ranging from boring to infuriating for both spectators and players.

Deathballs are what killed the game for me. Aesthetically is very very bad.
+ Show Spoiler +
I've been following SC2 since beta and it's difficult for me to tell what the fuck is happening in those 4 sec fights with 130 units packed in a tiny space, often times one on top of another. For battles to be fun, i have to be able to answer some simple questions, like:

How many (roughly) units are there?
How are they dying and what is killing them?
What and how are the players controlling (microing) the units (displaying skill)?

And of course, i have to have time to enjoy the battle. In the mess of colors that is a late game battle in SC2, it's nigh impossible to tell any of that. For a new comer, it just looks like a mess, like a 4 second explosion, not a battle. Player skill is impossible to tell by anyone save a very, very small audience that plays the game at a relatively high level. It's a mess of colors that makes me dread watching games go to late game. If it's hard for me to watch that, what about a new comer? Is that going to leave him in awe of the "fantastic" climax of this game or leave him confused and with a headache?

So yeah, deathballs or "natural unit clumping" is very hard on the eyes, greatly limits player skill display, makes fights last only a few seconds, makes players afraid to engage and so it leads to that blob A and blob B "dancing" around each other for minutes.

On March 14 2014 19:11 vthree wrote:


Agreed. The problem is with the way zerg production works, if their core units are too supply efficient, they just overrun everything with their first max. Imagine someone like HyuN with more supply efficient units.

On March 14 2014 20:18 Grumbels wrote:

I saw this analogy yesterday, I thought it was quite apt:

Starcraft 2 is like a game that revolves around mastering three-ball juggling. It looks impressive for beginners, but is completely trivial for adapts and leaves them struggling to show something creative that is unlike anything else. There are still options to showcase skill, cool tricks that you can do, and it's quite easy to tell a beginner from an expert, but there is probably a limit to what you can set yourself apart with.

Brood War on the other hand is like five-ball juggling. It's almost the same game, but the difficulty is increased so much that even the best players can't execute everything. They will lose rhythm, occasionally mismanage their props and no two players can demonstrate exactly the same tricks.

And Dune II is like nine-ball juggling. It's so mechanically taxing that creativity, improvisation and imagination all fall on the wayside, leaving only pure technique because even the best players can't do anything with nine balls outside of barely succeeding at keeping the right pace. Another example would be turning basketball into a game of purely penalty shots, which would still reward skilled players, but would also reduce the game to one monotonous activity.

(I'm not a juggling expert, so take the numbers with a grain of salt)

And of course people will disagree on whether Brood War was simply too mechanically taxing, so much so that it became oppressive, or whether Starcraft II is not taxing enough.


The first link doesn't work for me. I'll say that I also can't watch LoL because it looks a colorful mess to me, as if someone was overeager with water colors, and I felt this way about Starcraft II in the past but nowadays I have no real issues parsing the fights. I think, ideally, it still needs to be improved because the game should be accessible on first impression, but it does become somewhat acceptable once you're used to it.

My main issue is that units moving in lockstep look ridiculous to me and break immersion. I think the Brood War pathing feels a lot more natural, so I can't help but roll my eyes whenever Blizzard dwells on Starcraft 2's "superior pathfinding". How it feels in the game should be the most important of your criteria, not how it performs technically.

I like warp in mechanics, I love how it makes warp prism so much more than just a transport unit.
A player can choose to commit to warp in units or just drop units.
It also encourages late game protoss to have a presence everywhere just by having pylons.
Or PvP with warp prism zealot drop and warp in behind the colossus in a deathball battle.

On March 14 2014 21:31 Sapphire.lux wrote:

I like your analogy.

I just hate the way Blizzards PR works sometimes (probably their mindset in general as well though). In a sea of drawbacks, they cherry pick the one single example where unit clumping brings something positive. Or when they gave us that 2 weeks?! stats to show us how wrong we are about TvP, or Browder openly taunting EVERYONE in the scene by making statements like "the Queen patch is the best change we ever did!" in a time where the scene was literally dying due to how bad the game actually turned after that one change, i could go on an on. It's like they are thinking first and foremost about defending themselfs and pushing back any sort of criticism, instead of working together with the community for the sake of the game. This is where most of the hate comes from IMO.

They like deathballs, they like FF, FG, Colossus, stupid vision high ground adv., etc, because they are their babies, not because they are good. Admitting that all these things and more are just crap would be a massive blow to their ego as game designers so we are left with denials, cumbersome workarounds and super slow response times for obvious problems.