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Arthur, Bomber advance from Group D of WCS AM Ro32 - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
199 CommentsPost a Reply
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Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2014 11:34 GMT
#61
On February 27 2014 19:53 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 19:47 XaCez wrote:
I'd have loved to see the reaction if HerO was doing this to FireCake.

In that case the better player won and wanted to avoid 3 hours of boringness.

Lol, so true. People are just pissed fan favorite JD got knocked out by the race he has alway had the hardest time with.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 27 2014 11:35 GMT
#62
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
Furikawari
Profile Joined February 2014
France2522 Posts
February 27 2014 11:39 GMT
#63
On February 27 2014 20:34 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 19:53 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:47 XaCez wrote:
I'd have loved to see the reaction if HerO was doing this to FireCake.

In that case the better player won and wanted to avoid 3 hours of boringness.

Lol, so true. People are just pissed fan favorite JD got knocked out by the race he has alway had the hardest time with.



It's not just that a favorite is knock out. It's the way it's done that rely on exploiting bad game design as much as possible. Maybe Has is a good player, maybe lag is why he played like this, anyway it shouldnt be possible to win like this.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2014 11:43 GMT
#64
On February 27 2014 20:39 Furikawari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:34 Plansix wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:53 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:47 XaCez wrote:
I'd have loved to see the reaction if HerO was doing this to FireCake.

In that case the better player won and wanted to avoid 3 hours of boringness.

Lol, so true. People are just pissed fan favorite JD got knocked out by the race he has alway had the hardest time with.



It's not just that a favorite is knock out. It's the way it's done that rely on exploiting bad game design as much as possible. Maybe Has is a good player, maybe lag is why he played like this, anyway it shouldnt be possible to win like this.

Guess what, it is possible to win with all ins. Always has been. JD isn't spending time blaming the game, he is to good for that and he only focuses on things he can change. Whining doesn't do any thing. Life is hard, get a helmet.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12202 Posts
February 27 2014 11:45 GMT
#65
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


That is a good point. As a protoss player, what units and strats do I get to play that won't get me in trouble with my opponent?
No will to live, no wish to die
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2014 11:48 GMT
#66
On February 27 2014 20:45 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


That is a good point. As a protoss player, what units and strats do I get to play that won't get me in trouble with my opponent?

None. Welcome to zergs world during the patch Zerg era. Even if you're good, it doesn't matter because of the race you play.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mikku
Profile Joined June 2012
Czech Republic58 Posts
February 27 2014 11:48 GMT
#67
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


The fact, that Protoss needs just one worker to warp in limitless number of structures, as long as he has money, is nothing like proxy pylon warp in or anything in this regard, it is pure design flaw. Where is punishment to protoss' economy and where is the reason for this concept? Just to diferenciate races? Maybe, but still I see it as a huge flaw.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2014 11:51 GMT
#68
On February 27 2014 20:48 Mikku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


The fact, that Protoss needs just one worker to warp in limitless number of structures, as long as he has money, is nothing like proxy pylon warp in or anything in this regard, it is pure design flaw. Where is punishment to protoss' economy and where is the reason for this concept? Just to diferenciate races? Maybe, but still I see it as a huge flaw.

Was like that in BW and everyone survived. It even said in the SC prime manual that the probe was one of the most dangerous Protoss units. Respect the probe at all times.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Koesader
Profile Joined April 2012
Netherlands424 Posts
February 27 2014 11:51 GMT
#69
Come on guys, we've seen these kind of cannonrushes back on Taldarim Altar. It's not new or broken.
Liquid'TaeJa - Grubby - MVPMarineKing - Liquid'Ret - AxCranK - RedBull.Bomber ~~~ Are You Ready For Bombing?
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 27 2014 11:58 GMT
#70
On February 27 2014 20:48 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:45 Nebuchad wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


That is a good point. As a protoss player, what units and strats do I get to play that won't get me in trouble with my opponent?

None. Welcome to zergs world during the patch Zerg era. Even if you're good, it doesn't matter because of the race you play.

Sadly, yes.

I cannot name you a build that won't get you in trouble. Everything -feels- OP because of the economic hit you take for having to rule out all possibilities of all ins and have precautions in place.

In patchzerg era, nobody complained about MLB, only about Ling Infestor into trollolol.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 27 2014 11:58 GMT
#71
On February 27 2014 20:51 Koesader wrote:
Come on guys, we've seen these kind of cannonrushes back on Taldarim Altar. It's not new or broken.

it can still feel abusive.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
February 27 2014 11:59 GMT
#72
On February 27 2014 20:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:39 Furikawari wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:34 Plansix wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:53 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:47 XaCez wrote:
I'd have loved to see the reaction if HerO was doing this to FireCake.

In that case the better player won and wanted to avoid 3 hours of boringness.

Lol, so true. People are just pissed fan favorite JD got knocked out by the race he has alway had the hardest time with.



It's not just that a favorite is knock out. It's the way it's done that rely on exploiting bad game design as much as possible. Maybe Has is a good player, maybe lag is why he played like this, anyway it shouldnt be possible to win like this.

Guess what, it is possible to win with all ins. Always has been. JD isn't spending time blaming the game, he is to good for that and he only focuses on things he can change. Whining doesn't do any thing. Life is hard, get a helmet.

Except they are not all-ins. Has his winning DT rush failed he would be comfortable on 2 bases. His 1000+ mineral cannon rush left him with a fine followup. His inbase 2gate proxy against bomber left him ahead in supply.(only to lose due to his own control). Arturs 1 base blink worked 15 minutes into the game after failing to do damage early on. But sure stay on your high horse, condescend people and say protoss is fine.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Mikku
Profile Joined June 2012
Czech Republic58 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-27 12:07:39
February 27 2014 12:03 GMT
#73
On February 27 2014 20:51 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:48 Mikku wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


The fact, that Protoss needs just one worker to warp in limitless number of structures, as long as he has money, is nothing like proxy pylon warp in or anything in this regard, it is pure design flaw. Where is punishment to protoss' economy and where is the reason for this concept? Just to diferenciate races? Maybe, but still I see it as a huge flaw.

Was like that in BW and everyone survived. It even said in the SC prime manual that the probe was one of the most dangerous Protoss units. Respect the probe at all times.


Yeah, I get it, but still I see it as design flaw, because one of the main rts concepts: "need of structure construction > workers pulled of gathering process > less resources to spend" is absolutely not respected here, just for sake of differenciation of races. Players have to learn to live with that, but in the end, these extreme cases like this one are just pure abuse of game design and have nothing to do with level of a player.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-27 12:09:11
February 27 2014 12:08 GMT
#74
On February 27 2014 20:59 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:43 Plansix wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:39 Furikawari wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:34 Plansix wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:53 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 19:47 XaCez wrote:
I'd have loved to see the reaction if HerO was doing this to FireCake.

In that case the better player won and wanted to avoid 3 hours of boringness.

Lol, so true. People are just pissed fan favorite JD got knocked out by the race he has alway had the hardest time with.



It's not just that a favorite is knock out. It's the way it's done that rely on exploiting bad game design as much as possible. Maybe Has is a good player, maybe lag is why he played like this, anyway it shouldnt be possible to win like this.

Guess what, it is possible to win with all ins. Always has been. JD isn't spending time blaming the game, he is to good for that and he only focuses on things he can change. Whining doesn't do any thing. Life is hard, get a helmet.

Except they are not all-ins. Has his winning DT rush failed he would be comfortable on 2 bases. His 1000+ mineral cannon rush left him with a fine followup. His inbase 2gate proxy against bomber left him ahead in supply.(only to lose due to his own control). Arturs 1 base blink worked 15 minutes into the game after failing to do damage early on. But sure stay on your high horse, condescend people and say protoss is fine.


Execpt that JD got his ass kicked by Bomber too and won only one map the entire night. Sure Protoss has all-ins, but this has more to do with JD having a bad night and getting slapped around by them.

On February 27 2014 21:03 Mikku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2014 20:51 Plansix wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:48 Mikku wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:35 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 27 2014 20:05 Mikku wrote:
I do not have anything against asymetrical design or all-in possibilities, but in case of pylon wall cannon rush it was pure abuse of protoss race design, nothing less, nothing more. And Jd, with his hatch first, could not do ANYTHING about it.

What is not atm..?


The fact, that Protoss needs just one worker to warp in limitless number of structures, as long as he has money, is nothing like proxy pylon warp in or anything in this regard, it is pure design flaw. Where is punishment to protoss' economy and where is the reason for this concept? Just to diferenciate races? Maybe, but still I see it as a huge flaw.

Was like that in BW and everyone survived. It even said in the SC prime manual that the probe was one of the most dangerous Protoss units. Respect the probe at all times.


Yeah, I get it, but still I see it as design flaw, because one of the main rts concepts: "need of structure construction > workers pulled of gathering process > less resources to spend" is absolutely not respected here, just for sake of differenciation of races. Players have to learn to live with that, but in the end, these extreme cases like this one are, in the end, just pure abuse of game design and have nothing to do with level of a player.


As I have said before, focusing on stuff like that only loses you games and makes you a worse player. Assuming you or your favorite player lost because of a flaw in the game is the path to losing more games. JD has and always will take the blame for his losses. People should learn to do that same, rather than bitching that the game didn't end the way they wanted it to.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
February 27 2014 12:10 GMT
#75
Staying up until 4am? Definitely worth it. Has is my new favorite SEA player
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
AWalker9
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United Kingdom7229 Posts
February 27 2014 12:16 GMT
#76
So happy for Arthur that he made in the Ro16, he's always been good online will be nice to finally see how he does offline
soOjwa has returned to smite all that stand in his way
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
February 27 2014 12:27 GMT
#77
Overall, a boring WCS AM group that wasn't worth watching, regardless of all the balance whine that's going on. If you feel like being the worse player, but you're feeling pretty good about allins - hell, go for it. Just don't cry when fans rage on you (and I'm a fan and hate Arthur now)
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
February 27 2014 12:41 GMT
#78
Jaedong's skill level has been dissapointing so far this year . He struggles against almost every opponent that he should be favourite against .
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
February 27 2014 12:44 GMT
#79
On February 27 2014 21:27 boxerfred wrote:
Overall, a boring WCS AM group that wasn't worth watching, regardless of all the balance whine that's going on. If you feel like being the worse player, but you're feeling pretty good about allins - hell, go for it. Just don't cry when fans rage on you (and I'm a fan and hate Arthur now)

This is mostly cummulated frustration about how people feel XvP plays out nowadays that comes out because a huge fan favorite lost to a selection out of everything gimmicky you could possibly think of
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
lystier
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
China877 Posts
February 27 2014 12:54 GMT
#80
Booooomber!
Startale forever.
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