|
changes seem very fine. not sure if the widowmine change is a bit too good against mass chargelot style but i guess P has to start to micro their zealots which is a nice improvement of the game.
good patch.
|
On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP.
I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change.
The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is:
-Increase the base range to 6.
-Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade.
|
|
|
|
|
On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade.
Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE.
|
with that hydra buff, JD might have actually been able to hold that ridiculous all-in from Hero at IEM. Why is immortal sentry still a thing?
|
What time do these patches usually come out? (EU)
|
it comes 1st of march on eu:
"Hello everyone,
As David Kim mentioned in his recent forum post, we’ll be moving forward with a new balance update this week. However, we realized that our original release schedule for Friday, February 28 would offer WCS Europe Premier League Group F competitors just a few short hours to practice with the new changes. Instead, we’re going to slightly alter our release schedule by holding off on the balance update for the European Battle.net region until after the Group F broadcast concludes on Saturday, March 1.
With tournaments on-going across the globe, there’s never a perfect time to roll out a balance update, but we want to make sure our target dates will have the least amount of impact possible on upcoming events. Once again, this schedule change will only affect Europe and we are still planning to release the update for all other Battle.net regions on Friday, February 28.
Thank you, and good luck to all of the players competing in WCS this week!"
|
On February 28 2014 07:36 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade. Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE.
Wow, what an explanation. Believe me, if marines did 12 DMG per shot and had only 35 HP they still would be used. Units are always a compromise. If a Unit has strong characteristics good and bad, it will still be used. Just think of the reaver in BW. Hydras good characteristic, dealing damage fast, is just not strong enough to make it worth to deal with their weaknesses. If you take away defining features like the "squishiness" of hydras units become bland. Marines for example do so much damage that players have learned to deal with the units weaknesses, because its worth it.
More DPS for the Hydra is a good change. Hydras will be better in their role as damagedealer while other units should always be there to soak up damage. Hydras need protection, and zerg has so many units that can provide exactly that.
|
On February 28 2014 20:34 submarine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 07:36 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade. Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE. Wow, what an explanation. Believe me, if marines did 12 DMG per shot and had only 35 HP they still would be used. Units are always a compromise. If a Unit has strong characteristics good and bad, it will still be used. Just think of the reaver in BW. Hydras good characteristic, dealing damage fast, is just not strong enough to make it worth to deal with their weaknesses. If you take away defining features like the "squishiness" of hydras units become bland. Marines for example do so much damage that players have learned to deal with the units weaknesses, because its worth it. More DPS for the Hydra is a good change. Hydras will be better in their role as damagedealer while other units should always be there to soak up damage. Hydras need protection, and zerg has so many units that can provide exactly that.
They are different.
Hydra is an optional tech path, while marine is core for bio.
And Marines are cost efficient with their cheap cost (especially due to not needing gas) and has more than enough durability to deal great dps with medivac support.
But just like hydra, you cant use them if they are too glass cannon, mainly talking about late game pvt where Marines just melt too quickly.
Hydras requires two upgrade which makes them expensive investment to use and has a very small presence in a deathball combat except when zerg is tanking with free units.
|
Russian Federation26 Posts
On February 28 2014 08:28 _Epi_ wrote:
it comes 1st of march on eu:
"Hello everyone,
As David Kim mentioned in his recent forum post, we’ll be moving forward with a new balance update this week. However, we realized that our original release schedule for Friday, February 28 would offer WCS Europe Premier League Group F competitors just a few short hours to practice with the new changes. Instead, we’re going to slightly alter our release schedule by holding off on the balance update for the European Battle.net region until after the Group F broadcast concludes on Saturday, March 1.
With tournaments on-going across the globe, there’s never a perfect time to roll out a balance update, but we want to make sure our target dates will have the least amount of impact possible on upcoming events. Once again, this schedule change will only affect Europe and we are still planning to release the update for all other Battle.net regions on Friday, February 28.
Thank you, and good luck to all of the players competing in WCS this week!"
I guess that's really dissapointed Kas. I would get really mad.
|
Does anyone know what time the patch will actually go live?
|
On February 28 2014 21:41 Candino wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 08:28 _Epi_ wrote:
it comes 1st of march on eu:
"Hello everyone,
As David Kim mentioned in his recent forum post, we’ll be moving forward with a new balance update this week. However, we realized that our original release schedule for Friday, February 28 would offer WCS Europe Premier League Group F competitors just a few short hours to practice with the new changes. Instead, we’re going to slightly alter our release schedule by holding off on the balance update for the European Battle.net region until after the Group F broadcast concludes on Saturday, March 1.
With tournaments on-going across the globe, there’s never a perfect time to roll out a balance update, but we want to make sure our target dates will have the least amount of impact possible on upcoming events. Once again, this schedule change will only affect Europe and we are still planning to release the update for all other Battle.net regions on Friday, February 28.
Thank you, and good luck to all of the players competing in WCS this week!" I guess that's really dissapointed Kas. I would get really mad.
hmmmmm so it´s like time for preparation > balance .... o.O
|
On February 28 2014 21:41 Candino wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 08:28 _Epi_ wrote:
it comes 1st of march on eu:
"Hello everyone,
As David Kim mentioned in his recent forum post, we’ll be moving forward with a new balance update this week. However, we realized that our original release schedule for Friday, February 28 would offer WCS Europe Premier League Group F competitors just a few short hours to practice with the new changes. Instead, we’re going to slightly alter our release schedule by holding off on the balance update for the European Battle.net region until after the Group F broadcast concludes on Saturday, March 1.
With tournaments on-going across the globe, there’s never a perfect time to roll out a balance update, but we want to make sure our target dates will have the least amount of impact possible on upcoming events. Once again, this schedule change will only affect Europe and we are still planning to release the update for all other Battle.net regions on Friday, February 28.
Thank you, and good luck to all of the players competing in WCS this week!" I guess that's really dissapointed Kas. I would get really mad.
why lol every other terran before him also had to play in the current patch
|
On February 28 2014 21:09 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 20:34 submarine wrote:On February 28 2014 07:36 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade. Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE. Wow, what an explanation. Believe me, if marines did 12 DMG per shot and had only 35 HP they still would be used. Units are always a compromise. If a Unit has strong characteristics good and bad, it will still be used. Just think of the reaver in BW. Hydras good characteristic, dealing damage fast, is just not strong enough to make it worth to deal with their weaknesses. If you take away defining features like the "squishiness" of hydras units become bland. Marines for example do so much damage that players have learned to deal with the units weaknesses, because its worth it. More DPS for the Hydra is a good change. Hydras will be better in their role as damagedealer while other units should always be there to soak up damage. Hydras need protection, and zerg has so many units that can provide exactly that. They are different. Hydra is an optional tech path, while marine is core for bio. And Marines are cost efficient with their cheap cost (especially due to not needing gas) and has more than enough durability to deal great dps with medivac support. But just like hydra, you cant use them if they are too glass cannon, mainly talking about late game pvt where Marines just melt too quickly. Hydras requires two upgrade which makes them expensive investment to use and has a very small presence in a deathball combat except when zerg is tanking with free units.
If you make Hydras a strong enough as damagedealer zergs will find a way to use them.
|
Is the patch still not up on NA/KR? I was hoping to catch some streams of the new mine in action tonight.
|
On March 01 2014 01:04 submarine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2014 21:09 ETisME wrote:On February 28 2014 20:34 submarine wrote:On February 28 2014 07:36 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade. Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE. Wow, what an explanation. Believe me, if marines did 12 DMG per shot and had only 35 HP they still would be used. Units are always a compromise. If a Unit has strong characteristics good and bad, it will still be used. Just think of the reaver in BW. Hydras good characteristic, dealing damage fast, is just not strong enough to make it worth to deal with their weaknesses. If you take away defining features like the "squishiness" of hydras units become bland. Marines for example do so much damage that players have learned to deal with the units weaknesses, because its worth it. More DPS for the Hydra is a good change. Hydras will be better in their role as damagedealer while other units should always be there to soak up damage. Hydras need protection, and zerg has so many units that can provide exactly that. They are different. Hydra is an optional tech path, while marine is core for bio. And Marines are cost efficient with their cheap cost (especially due to not needing gas) and has more than enough durability to deal great dps with medivac support. But just like hydra, you cant use them if they are too glass cannon, mainly talking about late game pvt where Marines just melt too quickly. Hydras requires two upgrade which makes them expensive investment to use and has a very small presence in a deathball combat except when zerg is tanking with free units. If you make Hydras a strong enough as damagedealer zergs will find a way to use them.
of cause, that would depends on how strong you are buffing it to be.
the main point of my argument is that both units are extremely different and should not be compared at all.
|
On March 01 2014 01:40 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 01:04 submarine wrote:On February 28 2014 21:09 ETisME wrote:On February 28 2014 20:34 submarine wrote:On February 28 2014 07:36 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On February 27 2014 13:50 Havik_ wrote:
The Hydralisk change is bunk. What the hell prompted that!? From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT. Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade. Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE. Wow, what an explanation. Believe me, if marines did 12 DMG per shot and had only 35 HP they still would be used. Units are always a compromise. If a Unit has strong characteristics good and bad, it will still be used. Just think of the reaver in BW. Hydras good characteristic, dealing damage fast, is just not strong enough to make it worth to deal with their weaknesses. If you take away defining features like the "squishiness" of hydras units become bland. Marines for example do so much damage that players have learned to deal with the units weaknesses, because its worth it. More DPS for the Hydra is a good change. Hydras will be better in their role as damagedealer while other units should always be there to soak up damage. Hydras need protection, and zerg has so many units that can provide exactly that. They are different. Hydra is an optional tech path, while marine is core for bio. And Marines are cost efficient with their cheap cost (especially due to not needing gas) and has more than enough durability to deal great dps with medivac support. But just like hydra, you cant use them if they are too glass cannon, mainly talking about late game pvt where Marines just melt too quickly. Hydras requires two upgrade which makes them expensive investment to use and has a very small presence in a deathball combat except when zerg is tanking with free units. If you make Hydras a strong enough as damagedealer zergs will find a way to use them. of cause, that would depends on how strong you are buffing it to be. the main point of my argument is that both units are extremely different and should not be compared at all.
I'm not making a 1:1 comparison. I'm using the combat shields upgrade in reference to balancing out a unit's glass cannon nature.
Of course you can break them with having them 1 shot everything or giving them zergling speed, but my point was any slight damage boost is trivial because they're still way to fragile once all the upgrades set in/the game reaches a certain point. HotS helps hydras with the additional speed upgrade (another way to mitigate AOE), but given how lategame P/TvZ turns out, it's not a stretch to say they need a little bit more help.
|
I'm not making a 1:1 comparison. I'm using the combat shields upgrade in reference to balancing out a unit's glass cannon nature.
Of course you can break them with having them 1 shot everything or giving them zergling speed, but my point was any slight damage boost is trivial because they're still way to fragile once all the upgrades set in/the game reaches a certain point. HotS helps hydras with the additional speed upgrade (another way to mitigate AOE), but given how lategame P/TvZ turns out, it's not a stretch to say they need a little bit more help.
I have to agree with this. This damage buff is very low, its about a 10% increase in dps (30 hydras is now 33 hydras). Now don't get me wrong, i'm quite happy with this, the hydra needs all the help he can get and I think a damage boost is great, however I cant help but agree that the hydra could still use a little more help. I actually think blizzards original plan, to decrease the hydra's cost would have been a much better route to go. If you reduce the cost in gas to hydra's, they become much less of an economic investment, thereby increasing their usefulness. But alas, I guess we'll have to wait and see if this small dps boast actually changes the game much. I personally use hydra's quite a bit, not because their good, but because their fun for me, their one of my favorite units, I think they are cool. So, hopefully this will help, but we'll see.
do others think this dps boast will change the matchups? do you think people will start using hydra's more in PvZ? Do you think people will actually start using hydra's as support units in ZvT?
|
On March 01 2014 02:36 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2014 01:40 ETisME wrote:On March 01 2014 01:04 submarine wrote:On February 28 2014 21:09 ETisME wrote:On February 28 2014 20:34 submarine wrote:On February 28 2014 07:36 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 19:18 submarine wrote:On February 27 2014 16:16 ssxsilver wrote:On February 27 2014 14:12 GinDo wrote:On February 27 2014 13:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
[quote]
From what I gathered from when it was first proposed to reduce the gas cost to 25, they want to break up the roach dominance in ZvZ by making the tech transition to roach/hydra easier and more desirable. Also to maybe encourage roach/hydra as a more viable option against bio in ZvT.
Personally, I think they're missing the mark and this buff won't make much of a dent in either of those goals. 25 gas hydras are too good, while a 10% buff to dps isn't quite enough. They need a more reasonable middle ground. Maybe they should have considered a mineral reduction from 100 to 75? Or go with what so many pros have been asking for in +1 armor or +10ish HP. I don't understand why this suggestion pops up everywhere. Against which unit exactly would 1 Armor or 10 HP make any difference? This would be the most boring change ever. The hydra is a squishy unit that deals a lot of damage and needs other units in front to tank. That's its role. Buffing its tanking ability would make them a little bit better in direct trades, but would not at all help them to fill their intended role. Zerg has the perfect units to put in front of the Hydra. Right now they just don't do enough damage to be really worth it. I like this purposed change. The next thing i would change if they are still underused after the patch is: -Increase the base range to 6. -Add a hive requirement for the range increase upgrade. Because their DPS has never been an issue. By that same argument, there's no point to combat shields and you might as well give marines +1 attack or something instead. Obviously I'm speaking secondhand when I say it's what a lot of pros want, but those that do give feedback seem to come to the same consensus, the problem occurs once the game gets to the deathball stage. At that point, hydras can't effectively function as AA, because they die instantly to critical mass AOE. Wow, what an explanation. Believe me, if marines did 12 DMG per shot and had only 35 HP they still would be used. Units are always a compromise. If a Unit has strong characteristics good and bad, it will still be used. Just think of the reaver in BW. Hydras good characteristic, dealing damage fast, is just not strong enough to make it worth to deal with their weaknesses. If you take away defining features like the "squishiness" of hydras units become bland. Marines for example do so much damage that players have learned to deal with the units weaknesses, because its worth it. More DPS for the Hydra is a good change. Hydras will be better in their role as damagedealer while other units should always be there to soak up damage. Hydras need protection, and zerg has so many units that can provide exactly that. They are different. Hydra is an optional tech path, while marine is core for bio. And Marines are cost efficient with their cheap cost (especially due to not needing gas) and has more than enough durability to deal great dps with medivac support. But just like hydra, you cant use them if they are too glass cannon, mainly talking about late game pvt where Marines just melt too quickly. Hydras requires two upgrade which makes them expensive investment to use and has a very small presence in a deathball combat except when zerg is tanking with free units. If you make Hydras a strong enough as damagedealer zergs will find a way to use them. of cause, that would depends on how strong you are buffing it to be. the main point of my argument is that both units are extremely different and should not be compared at all. I'm not making a 1:1 comparison. I'm using the combat shields upgrade in reference to balancing out a unit's glass cannon nature. Of course you can break them with having them 1 shot everything or giving them zergling speed, but my point was any slight damage boost is trivial because they're still way to fragile once all the upgrades set in/the game reaches a certain point. HotS helps hydras with the additional speed upgrade (another way to mitigate AOE), but given how lategame P/TvZ turns out, it's not a stretch to say they need a little bit more help.
Thing with buffing their health/armor is that you create a unit that overlaps with the roach, which is already a well tanking mid-ranged unit. You are currently exclusively building hydras when you need their antiair or when you have enough buffer for them already. If you buff their tanking by a reasonable amount, the line between roaches and hydras becomes very thin, pushing hydras into the role of roaches and leaving roaches with nothing left.
If however, you buff hydras advantages (antiair/dps) and leave their weaknesses (HP/cost/tech) and possibly even buff the roaches strengths (HP/armor/regeneration) and emphasize their weaknesses (dps/no antiair/range) the situation would become even more clear and give both units useful roles. It makes mixing those units more rewarding for a player (less monoroach or monohydra play, dependend on what the opponent has teched) and gives more room for micro - such as targeting/flanking Hydralisks.
I'd say, current roach/hydra play is a little bit dull, because it's such a homogenous mass and most of the time you are good with building the one, but not the other unit - and eventually you switch out of either anyways, since this kind of composition has little use in the lategame. It's currently not required for the opponent to find ways to kill hydras first in the combat - and there is little reward for the zerg player if he positions and microes really well to keep hydras alive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
